Why the hatred for the Israelis?

Well. Interesting that the majority of the world is content to deny history. Guess I should retain my title as a "Zionist Shill", because I stand with Israel.

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by AGWskeptic

 

Of course not.

But when someone alludes to crimes routinely committed against Jews as evidentiary of some kind of deeply rooted concerted Jewish effort to hurt others in some way or another, ergo their expulsions and attempted extermination throughout time are somehow justified by a correlation that has no basis in anything but hatred, that's what I find offensive. Not whether someone disagrees with Israeli settlements of Palestinian lands. However it does seem that along with legitimate disapproval of Israeli government policy comes undertone as well as overtones of hatred. When that changes I will stop pointing it out.

edit on 17-11-2012 by projectvxn because: Because I can't write right now...up too long

edit on 17-11-2012 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)

People will often hate invaders and occupiers.

The fact is, the people of Israel DO share some of the blame as they elect their governments and serve in their military.

Therefore, it is not simply a case of "hating the government", the people are legitmately to blame - just as the US population are to blame for George Bush and his actions, just as the UK population are to blame for Tony Blair and so on.

Originally posted by citizenx1

Originally posted by AussieDingus
How many times does this have to be said..................most people don't hate Israel or its people, most people hate the Israel Government and its policies and actions.

That said, it is the people of Israel who decided upon their current government and who serve in the IDF.

Oh, you mean like us Americans? We get to decide things too.

Such as... "Which do you prefer, a pile of poop or a sack of crap?"

I mean seriously, how many dumb Americans have you seen blindfolded and putting something in their mouth of all places to do a taste test between two things that are only ever so slightly different.... and they never show huge numbers of test subjects because they can only find a few that answer right because it tastes practically the same.

This coaches us to becoming very discerning citizen where we think we can tell one elite from another.

but it's really only because they look different.


OOOOO.... I know. We should have anonymous elections where they only answer questions, but we can't do that. The election runs a very specific way that we the American people decided that we the American people should never be able to change.... or something like that.

Just a small suggestion that we control none of it when it comes to real structure change.

Another way we could do it is like on the price is right where we only get to see one guy at a time and we have to vote now if we like the first guy or wait for the next one and vote for him or just fold.

Originally posted by kmstar

Originally posted by Son of Will

Originally posted by kmstar
sick of reading all these hateful comments.

Here is the real situation:

NEITHER SIDE IS JUSTIFIED.

They are both killing humans, whether 'terrorists' or 'civilians', and they are both blaming one another and refusing to take responsibility over their actions.

Who cares who started it? It's just another playground argument, a justification of murder.

The bigger nation will be the one to stop firing missiles and bring the argument to a table instead of a battleground.

But as long as this keeps going, people will die. There will be no winner or no better side, and they will keep getting their people killed while trying to 'defend' them.


How about stop the hate and start sending positive vibes huh?
Couldn't hurt, I'm sure all this negativity isn't stopping the war anyway.

I see this sentiment a lot. However, it is just plain wrong.

You're assuming that all violence is wrong. Okay. What about self defense? Even if it is wrong to commit violence in self defense - itself a rather ludicrous concept - either way, the person defending themselves is clearly more justified than the person instigating the violence.

This is *clearly* one of those situations where one side is entirely on the defense, while the other is entirely on the offense. Therefore, "both sides are wrong" is an incorrect statement from every rational perspective. The Palestinians are, objectively speaking, far more justified to commit violence than the Israelis are, in this situation.

I understand, as I agree that the Palestinians are definitely justified to defend themselves, but attacking back isn't going to solve anything. The only thing it's doing is giving the Israelis a reason to bomb them again and again.

If they never bombed back, maybe everyone would see that the Israelis were in the wrong.

Anyway, now that it's happened, I see no point in taking sides as both have killed, whether in defense or offense.

I'm sorry but you are far too naive to comment on these matters.

Why not go and sit in a field and stare at flowers or something, use your time wisely.

Originally posted by mishmallow8
reply to post by michael1983l

 

Well...this kind of sounds familiar....

Remember how it was in IRAQ?

Saddam kept hiding behind his innocent civillains too.

And we all know what happened afterwards...

The west illegally invaded resulting in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent people and revealled that the entire basis for the war was clearly a lie and known to be at the time it happened.

reply to post by NotAnAspie


I'm sure there is a point in that waffle somewhere, if you care to summarise it then please, be my guest.

Originally posted by citizenx1
reply to post by NotAnAspie

 

I'm sure there is a point in that waffle somewhere, if you care to summarise it then please, be my guest.

tell ya what... You put your blindfold back on and just try to make your best guess because it's not confusing.

We, The American people, do not have a real honest choice in who we elect. Why should we expect that Israeli processes are any better. Come on, this is Israel we're talking about.

There is no point in trying to mesh the Jewish sentiment with Israeli leaders and our elite shadow government that is even beyond that. The Jewish people know very well in many cases that their strings are being pulled. How ironic it is that some tie their plight and cause in with the very same hatched plan that put them into concentration camps and fueled a world war. Here they are being used again.

What kind of cowards do this? Hide by their victims and steal sympathy given to them.

Originally posted by NotAnAspie

Originally posted by citizenx1
reply to post by NotAnAspie

 

I'm sure there is a point in that waffle somewhere, if you care to summarise it then please, be my guest.

tell ya what... You put your blindfold back on and just try to make your best guess because it's not confusing.

We, The American people, do not have a real honest choice in who we elect. Why should we expect that Israeli processes are any better. Come on, this is Israel we're talking about.

There is no point in trying to mesh the Jewish sentiment with Israeli leaders and our elite shadow government that is even beyond that. The Jewish people know very well in many cases that their strings are being pulled. How ironic it is that some tie their plight and cause in with the very same hatched plan that put them into concentration camps and fueled a world war. Here they are being used again.

What kind of cowards do this? Hide by their victims and steal sympathy given to them.

edit on 18-11-2012 by NotAnAspie because: (no reason given)

Every nation gets the government it deserves.

As for the US, you've just had a Presidential election for Obama and Romney, they couldn't have been more different if they tried.

In one sense.

Granted both accept the current system as it stands and that is why Obama in particular is a disappointment BUT the US is not at war with a close neighbour nor does it conscript its people to its army.

If the Israeli population were absolutely agaist the actions of its government, as a minimum they would not serve in the IDF or they would use that power to remove the government from office and install a government they do support.

Until such time as that happens, we have to conclude there is no strong will to change the status quo.

Originally posted by citizenx1

Originally posted by kmstar

Originally posted by Son of Will

Originally posted by kmstar
sick of reading all these hateful comments.

Here is the real situation:

NEITHER SIDE IS JUSTIFIED.

They are both killing humans, whether 'terrorists' or 'civilians', and they are both blaming one another and refusing to take responsibility over their actions.

Who cares who started it? It's just another playground argument, a justification of murder.

The bigger nation will be the one to stop firing missiles and bring the argument to a table instead of a battleground.

But as long as this keeps going, people will die. There will be no winner or no better side, and they will keep getting their people killed while trying to 'defend' them.


How about stop the hate and start sending positive vibes huh?
Couldn't hurt, I'm sure all this negativity isn't stopping the war anyway.

I see this sentiment a lot. However, it is just plain wrong.

You're assuming that all violence is wrong. Okay. What about self defense? Even if it is wrong to commit violence in self defense - itself a rather ludicrous concept - either way, the person defending themselves is clearly more justified than the person instigating the violence.

This is *clearly* one of those situations where one side is entirely on the defense, while the other is entirely on the offense. Therefore, "both sides are wrong" is an incorrect statement from every rational perspective. The Palestinians are, objectively speaking, far more justified to commit violence than the Israelis are, in this situation.

I understand, as I agree that the Palestinians are definitely justified to defend themselves, but attacking back isn't going to solve anything. The only thing it's doing is giving the Israelis a reason to bomb them again and again.

If they never bombed back, maybe everyone would see that the Israelis were in the wrong.

Anyway, now that it's happened, I see no point in taking sides as both have killed, whether in defense or offense.

I'm sorry but you are far too naive to comment on these matters.

Why not go and sit in a field and stare at flowers or something, use your time wisely.

This personal attack shows that you aren't worth the time, so enjoy all your hate mongering.

Originally posted by kmstar

Originally posted by citizenx1

Originally posted by kmstar

Originally posted by Son of Will

Originally posted by kmstar
sick of reading all these hateful comments.

Here is the real situation:

NEITHER SIDE IS JUSTIFIED.

They are both killing humans, whether 'terrorists' or 'civilians', and they are both blaming one another and refusing to take responsibility over their actions.

Who cares who started it? It's just another playground argument, a justification of murder.

The bigger nation will be the one to stop firing missiles and bring the argument to a table instead of a battleground.

But as long as this keeps going, people will die. There will be no winner or no better side, and they will keep getting their people killed while trying to 'defend' them.


How about stop the hate and start sending positive vibes huh?
Couldn't hurt, I'm sure all this negativity isn't stopping the war anyway.

I see this sentiment a lot. However, it is just plain wrong.

You're assuming that all violence is wrong. Okay. What about self defense? Even if it is wrong to commit violence in self defense - itself a rather ludicrous concept - either way, the person defending themselves is clearly more justified than the person instigating the violence.

This is *clearly* one of those situations where one side is entirely on the defense, while the other is entirely on the offense. Therefore, "both sides are wrong" is an incorrect statement from every rational perspective. The Palestinians are, objectively speaking, far more justified to commit violence than the Israelis are, in this situation.

I understand, as I agree that the Palestinians are definitely justified to defend themselves, but attacking back isn't going to solve anything. The only thing it's doing is giving the Israelis a reason to bomb them again and again.

If they never bombed back, maybe everyone would see that the Israelis were in the wrong.

Anyway, now that it's happened, I see no point in taking sides as both have killed, whether in defense or offense.

I'm sorry but you are far too naive to comment on these matters.

Why not go and sit in a field and stare at flowers or something, use your time wisely.

This personal attack shows that you aren't worth the time, so enjoy all your hate mongering.

Pointing out that the points you've made are naive is not a personal attack. You need to develop your critical thinking on this subject if you want to be seen as credible.

reply to post by michael1983l


The Jewish people have the audacity to write in their holy book that they were given the Earth by their god. Seriously. They actually write that they are to rule the Earth and all of its inhabitants. So you have to imagine that all of those inhabitants will feel somewhat slighted by that proclamation. Right?

What I found out today is that Zionism is an ideology that also contains the prediction of a second coming that will bring world peace, similar to those predictions made by the Shia 12 ers. So both Iran and Israel are working towards the 2nd coming in their own ways. Funny how you don't really hear about that side of it, but scary all the same.

God help us all.

Originally posted by citizenx1

Originally posted by tanser
The minute you get personal is when you lose your credibility, debate is never a closed book my friend.

Not necessarily, if the comment is valid.

Also, refering to someone as "my friend" in this context is simply passive aggressive and that is a good description of those who support Israels murderous campaigns - they try to dress it up with logic and rationale but it is a flawed logic that nobody in their right mind could, would or should support.

What was valid about it? What is confirmed? The only 'facts' seems to be coming from the people in support of Palestine but yet not one of you has proof or inside knowledge of what is happening other then biased news agencies who want you to be a part of there propaganda.

I am neither Israel or Gaza.... I think both sides are stupid, both to blame. I am impartial looking in and trying to understand some posts.... thus far, nobody on both sides has provided me evidence.

And seriously, calling someone friend is aggressive? Speechless......

Originally posted by XXX777
reply to post by michael1983l

 

The Jewish people have the audacity to write in their holy book that they were given the Earth by their god. Seriously. They actually write that they are to rule the Earth and all of its inhabitants. So you have to imagine that all of those inhabitants will feel somewhat slighted by that proclamation. Right?

Double edged sword.

How many countries/ leaders have declared that want to wipe Israel off the map?

These inhabitants deserve a mention?

Originally posted by tanser

Originally posted by citizenx1

Originally posted by tanser
The minute you get personal is when you lose your credibility, debate is never a closed book my friend.

Not necessarily, if the comment is valid.

Also, refering to someone as "my friend" in this context is simply passive aggressive and that is a good description of those who support Israels murderous campaigns - they try to dress it up with logic and rationale but it is a flawed logic that nobody in their right mind could, would or should support.

What was valid about it? What is confirmed? The only 'facts' seems to be coming from the people in support of Palestine but yet not one of you has proof or inside knowledge of what is happening other then biased news agencies who want you to be a part of there propaganda.

I am neither Israel or Gaza.... I think both sides are stupid, both to blame. I am impartial looking in and trying to understand some posts.... thus far, nobody on both sides has provided me evidence.

And seriously, calling someone friend is aggressive? Speechless......

I didn't take a "side" until Israel behaved reprehensibly in Lebanon a few years ago, since then i've been firmly on the side of David rather than Goliath.

It is never fair, right or decent for a modern military to attack civillian population centres where the defence are using home made equipment. The same is true of the actions of "our" (British) military in the likes of Afghanistan and Iraq.

reply to post by michael1983l


I do not know how you can come onto a forum like this and ask this question with a straight face. Given everything that Israel has done in the past stealing vast swathes of this land and making 2.5 Million refugees overnight, coupled with years of state sponsored terrorism against mostly innocent Arabs , you have the bare faced cheek to even pose that question.

Let me tell you why most fair open minded people hate Israelis because they are complicit yes all of them who continue to live in other people's stolen houses and land, they are complicit in condoning decades of state sponsored terror , for the torture, murder, rape and pillage of thousands upon thousands of innocent Arabs.

They turn a blind eye to all of it , happy to justify it all by using the well worn mantra that they are being attacked by terrorists.... Really !!!! I wonder why ???

That's why most Israelis are hated because they allow all of this in their name....!!!

reply to post by michael1983l



I think US should absolutely step in and I am sure that they will.

There is only 1 jewish country and few million jews left.And who are they against??
1.6 billion muslims (with 57 Islamic countries ).

OH and it reminded me of this quotes made by Jesus Christ from the Bible-

"Israel shall never be destroyed"
"I shall personlly destroy the enemies of Israel"
~Jesus Christ (Holy Bible)


And since some of you are talking about the Israeli violence ,let me tell you 1 thing.
There has been more that 19000 terrorist incident carried out by Islamists since 9/11.
Proof (This site has all the news articles at the bottom,have a look before you claim its fake lol)->
www.thereligionofpeace.com

Originally posted by michael1983l
There is a general odour of Israeli hatred on this forum recently and to be honest I am a bit perplexed as to why this is so.The Jews were driven out of Europe after the second World War because no country wanted to harbour them so they were forced to settle on land that was not historically theirs. These people have to live somewhere right? Then people get on their backs when they strike the Palastinians after being bombarded by rocket attacks, these Palestinians hide behind Civilians and with cowardly acts of indescriminatley showering rockets on Jewish settlements. Are Israel not allowed to defend themselves? If Israel were just left be there would be no aggression, but they get attacked from all sides and their neighbours have been quite open about wanting to wipe Israel off the map. Is this really fair? I for one have sympathy for the Israeli people.

It's just a minority of Israeli's, as well as the Israeli administration, that most people have a problem with.


QV.

Originally posted by qvision

Originally posted by michael1983l
There is a general odour of Israeli hatred on this forum recently and to be honest I am a bit perplexed as to why this is so.The Jews were driven out of Europe after the second World War because no country wanted to harbour them so they were forced to settle on land that was not historically theirs. These people have to live somewhere right? Then people get on their backs when they strike the Palastinians after being bombarded by rocket attacks, these Palestinians hide behind Civilians and with cowardly acts of indescriminatley showering rockets on Jewish settlements. Are Israel not allowed to defend themselves? If Israel were just left be there would be no aggression, but they get attacked from all sides and their neighbours have been quite open about wanting to wipe Israel off the map. Is this really fair? I for one have sympathy for the Israeli people.

It's just a minority of Israeli's, as well as the Israeli administration, that most people have a problem with.


QV.

Its the majority that elected the current bunch of thugs, rapists and genocidal maniacs i have a problem with not to mention those who support them and their actions.

Originally posted by qvision

Originally posted by michael1983l
There is a general odour of Israeli hatred on this forum recently and to be honest I am a bit perplexed as to why this is so.The Jews were driven out of Europe after the second World War because no country wanted to harbour them so they were forced to settle on land that was not historically theirs. These people have to live somewhere right? Then people get on their backs when they strike the Palastinians after being bombarded by rocket attacks, these Palestinians hide behind Civilians and with cowardly acts of indescriminatley showering rockets on Jewish settlements. Are Israel not allowed to defend themselves? If Israel were just left be there would be no aggression, but they get attacked from all sides and their neighbours have been quite open about wanting to wipe Israel off the map. Is this really fair? I for one have sympathy for the Israeli people.

It's just a minority of Israeli's, as well as the Israeli administration, that most people have a problem with.


QV.

It seems to me that it is because of the growing influence of the muslim brotherhood.
As you know "Islam" means submission and the Muzzies will do anything in there power to destroy all source of criticism of their religion even if it is constructive.
Remember what happened to US embassy in Libya after "Innocence of Muslims ".