Why the hatred for the Israelis?

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posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 08:07 PM
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Originally posted by kmstar
sick of reading all these hateful comments.

Here is the real situation:

NEITHER SIDE IS JUSTIFIED.

They are both killing humans, whether 'terrorists' or 'civilians', and they are both blaming one another and refusing to take responsibility over their actions.

Who cares who started it? It's just another playground argument, a justification of murder.

The bigger nation will be the one to stop firing missiles and bring the argument to a table instead of a battleground.

But as long as this keeps going, people will die. There will be no winner or no better side, and they will keep getting their people killed while trying to 'defend' them.


How about stop the hate and start sending positive vibes huh?
Couldn't hurt, I'm sure all this negativity isn't stopping the war anyway.


I see this sentiment a lot. However, it is just plain wrong.

You're assuming that all violence is wrong. Okay. What about self defense? Even if it is wrong to commit violence in self defense - itself a rather ludicrous concept - either way, the person defending themselves is clearly more justified than the person instigating the violence.

This is *clearly* one of those situations where one side is entirely on the defense, while the other is entirely on the offense. Therefore, "both sides are wrong" is an incorrect statement from every rational perspective. The Palestinians are, objectively speaking, far more justified to commit violence than the Israelis are, in this situation.




posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 08:19 PM
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reply to post by Rapha
 


Ok get a grip now.



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 08:25 PM
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I think its reasonable to look at the question of "who started it?" Many dispute the modern conflicts and believe rockets are fired from Palestine then Isreal responds. This is false.


There is nothing new about Israel’s conduct. According to a study conducted by American and Israeli academics, Nancy Kanwisher, Johannes Haushofer, and Anat Biletzki, Israel has displayed a pattern of unilateral attack. Their 2009 study, which examined 25 periods of non-violence between Israel and the Palestinian resistance, revealed that Israel repeatedly initiated violence. Between 2000 and 2008, Israel “unilaterally interrupted…96 percent of the ceasefire period, and it unilaterally interrupted 100 percent of the 14 periods of non-violence lasting more than 9 days”. Writing in the Huffington Post in January 2009 at the height of Operation Cast Lead, Kanwisher noted that “it is overwhelmingly Israel, not Palestine, that kills first following a lull. Indeed, it is virtually always Israel that kills first after a lull lasting more than a week”


The following chart was compiled from the study and shows the conflict pause interruptions, black represents the times when Isreal broke the peace and attacked first.



Read more
www.huffingtonpost.com...


edit on 17-11-2012 by polarwarrior because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 08:56 PM
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look at me I'm poor little Israel, I learned from Hitler not to go too far with my genocide.......

The entire situation is wrong. What did the people who took Arab land and gave it to their religious enemy .... I guess the Europeans thought the Arabs would roll over and take it up the wazoo like good conquered peoples .....



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 09:00 PM
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The conflict in the area just makes me sad... A small minority of F******* crazies on each side are causing this region to hurt so much. So many poor innocent folks live each day in fear of the unknown of what the other may do. That's no way to live your life. Learning about how these folks live really puts things into perspective when comparing to my life here in Chicago... I never fear, I didnt even fear for my life on 9/11, I feel safe every day I leave my house. I can't even imagine what it must be like living in the west bank . On one side, you're living in a place with such history, history that I'm jealous of (just imagine exploring around there), but on the other side you're living in a place with so much violence....

Anyways, sad watching this situation escalate and I'm hopeful things calm down in that region asap...



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 09:28 PM
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There has to be a good reason why Israel refuses to allow UN human rights inspectors into the country. It has something to do with genocide. Israel are the masters of terrorism. Remember the King David Hotel bombing by Begin, the Lavon Affair, the USS Liberty. The last thing Israel wants is peace in the middle east. That would mean fixed boundaries and no more settlements. The reason why people are tired of Israel is that they use propaganda to portray themselves as peace loving victims when in reality they are manipulative genocidal aggressors seeking territorial expansion. The world is growing tired of the philosophy of "it is easier to get forgiveness than permission" or "Do as I say, not as I do".



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 09:34 PM
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reply to post by michael1983l
 

I only oppose any form of domination or racial oppression, which is a two-edged sword. To see the opressed become the oppressor is equally discouraging. What's needed here is an application of Biblical principals, applied to the Zionist side of the equation because from he who has more more will be asked, but this tit for tat nonsense belongs in a child's sandbox. Surely, after all this time people are better than reducing themselves to such childishness, if not murderous rage and vengeance.

"Let vengeance be mine sayeth the Lord."


edit on 17-11-2012 by NewAgeMan because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 09:50 PM
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Originally posted by Son of Will

Originally posted by kmstar
sick of reading all these hateful comments.

Here is the real situation:

NEITHER SIDE IS JUSTIFIED.

They are both killing humans, whether 'terrorists' or 'civilians', and they are both blaming one another and refusing to take responsibility over their actions.

Who cares who started it? It's just another playground argument, a justification of murder.

The bigger nation will be the one to stop firing missiles and bring the argument to a table instead of a battleground.

But as long as this keeps going, people will die. There will be no winner or no better side, and they will keep getting their people killed while trying to 'defend' them.


How about stop the hate and start sending positive vibes huh?
Couldn't hurt, I'm sure all this negativity isn't stopping the war anyway.


I see this sentiment a lot. However, it is just plain wrong.

You're assuming that all violence is wrong. Okay. What about self defense? Even if it is wrong to commit violence in self defense - itself a rather ludicrous concept - either way, the person defending themselves is clearly more justified than the person instigating the violence.

This is *clearly* one of those situations where one side is entirely on the defense, while the other is entirely on the offense. Therefore, "both sides are wrong" is an incorrect statement from every rational perspective. The Palestinians are, objectively speaking, far more justified to commit violence than the Israelis are, in this situation.




I understand, as I agree that the Palestinians are definitely justified to defend themselves, but attacking back isn't going to solve anything. The only thing it's doing is giving the Israelis a reason to bomb them again and again.

If they never bombed back, maybe everyone would see that the Israelis were in the wrong.

Anyway, now that it's happened, I see no point in taking sides as both have killed, whether in defense or offense.



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 09:52 PM
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Originally posted by Humanity4Ever

Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by Humanity4Ever

Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by michael1983l
Well if Hamas didn't hide amongst the civilians and launch rocket attacks from there, Israel would not be forced to fire back. Simple no?



No one is ever FORCED to kill innocent people.
It is a choice and you have decided your end justifies your means.



edit on 17-11-2012 by newcovenant because: (no reason given)


And the alternative for the IDF is to sit back, do nothing, and absorb thousands of missiles fired on Israeli civilians because Hamas militants use disgraceful, cowardly, inhumane tactics.
edit on 17-11-2012 by Humanity4Ever because: (no reason given)


3 Israelis dead vs 40 Palestinians including infants....sorry

Hard to muster up sympathy for the Israelis at this point.


Once again, flawed logic on display.

So the fact that Israel is better equipped to protect their citizens and the fact that Hamas deliberately endangers their people is Israel's fault?

Why don't you consider the actual intent?

Hamas is counting on people like you for public support.



Are they really? I don't think they are counting on anyone. Israel, on the other hand is.
The Likud Party is counting on the US and fellow right wingers to help them carry out their God given decree to destroy their enemies including women, children and pets. Amalek. The rest of Israel wants peace but they are being held hostage by a bunch of religious elders and fundamental extremists who deliberately endanger THEIR PEOPLE.



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 10:07 PM
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Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by Humanity4Ever

Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by Humanity4Ever

Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by michael1983l
Well if Hamas didn't hide amongst the civilians and launch rocket attacks from there, Israel would not be forced to fire back. Simple no?



No one is ever FORCED to kill innocent people.
It is a choice and you have decided your end justifies your means.



edit on 17-11-2012 by newcovenant because: (no reason given)


And the alternative for the IDF is to sit back, do nothing, and absorb thousands of missiles fired on Israeli civilians because Hamas militants use disgraceful, cowardly, inhumane tactics.
edit on 17-11-2012 by Humanity4Ever because: (no reason given)


3 Israelis dead vs 40 Palestinians including infants....sorry

Hard to muster up sympathy for the Israelis at this point.


Once again, flawed logic on display.

So the fact that Israel is better equipped to protect their citizens and the fact that Hamas deliberately endangers their people is Israel's fault?

Why don't you consider the actual intent?

Hamas is counting on people like you for public support.



Are they really? I don't think they are counting on anyone. Israel, on the other hand is.
The Likud Party is counting on the US and fellow right wingers to help them carry out their God given decree to destroy their enemies including women, children and pets. Amalek. The rest of Israel wants peace but they are being held hostage by a bunch of religious elders and fundamental extremists who deliberately endanger THEIR PEOPLE.


Israel is not counting on the U.S in this particular crisis. It's getting frustrating reading all these accusations of genocide. If Israel really wanted to wipe out the people in the Gaza strip, they could have done so by now. It breaks my heart that innocent children are falling victim to this violence (palestinian or israeli), but make no mistake about it, Israel is not targeting civilians intentionally.

You claim that Israel wants peace but they are being held hostage by religious extremists that deliberately endanger their own people. Do you feel the same about Hamas?
edit on 17-11-2012 by DeadSeraph because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 10:15 PM
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I'm not a huge fan of Israel but I have little to no sympathy for someone that pokes a bear then cries when they get bit.
edit on 17-11-2012 by wantsome because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 10:42 PM
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reply to post by michael1983l
 





The Jews were driven out of Europe after the second World War because no country wanted to harbour them so they were forced to settle on land that was not historically theirs. These people have to live somewhere right?



Nobody wanted to harbour them...I think this is where we should start. Why not?

Although the majority of my friends are not Jewish, those who are rank among the finest, most generous, warm and family loving people I know. None are orthodox and I am always surprised because I've lived near heavily orthodox areas and after awhile you might grow to think they are "all like that" but they are diverse like all groups of people.

I have wondered myself why the whole world seems to hold a grudge against the Jews. They were the first money lenders and pretty much kept finance as as their forte. People get funny over money.

I also wondered why they didn't assimilate into society like other groups eventually did over time. I later found out it was so they did not become like everyone else. The rest of the world are viewed as sinners. Not held against them presumably but thats just the way it is. They are "chosen" and privately mingling with non- Jews, unless it is to do business is actively discouraged.
I am thinking it is very possible the Jews relationship to other groups of peoples, or lack of it, is why they are largely misunderstood.
Like everyone they have their hard core old timers who cling to ancient customs no matter how bizarre. One of these is particularly troublesome. Apparently God demanded their enemy "the Amalek" be vanquished completely from the face of the earth right down to the last animal. Peace therefor with with Palestinians is forbidden and directly disrespecting God in the eyes of these extremists. Those the Palestinians are not the Amalek "they have assumed the position."

Meanwhile Israel and the rest of the Jewish people are not crazy fundamentalist like these elders. They WANT peace with Palestine and do not agree with the right wingers but they are out shouted and shamed just like Limbaugh might do to one of our hapless "liberals" or anyone else in favor of peace, love, show mercy and forgiveness. Its the same all over. Everyone has their nuts and we let those tails wag the dog.



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 10:57 PM
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Originally posted by DeadSeraph

Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by Humanity4Ever

Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by Humanity4Ever

Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by michael1983l
Well if Hamas didn't hide amongst the civilians and launch rocket attacks from there, Israel would not be forced to fire back. Simple no?



No one is ever FORCED to kill innocent people.
It is a choice and you have decided your end justifies your means.



edit on 17-11-2012 by newcovenant because: (no reason given)


And the alternative for the IDF is to sit back, do nothing, and absorb thousands of missiles fired on Israeli civilians because Hamas militants use disgraceful, cowardly, inhumane tactics.
edit on 17-11-2012 by Humanity4Ever because: (no reason given)


3 Israelis dead vs 40 Palestinians including infants....sorry

Hard to muster up sympathy for the Israelis at this point.


Once again, flawed logic on display.

So the fact that Israel is better equipped to protect their citizens and the fact that Hamas deliberately endangers their people is Israel's fault?

Why don't you consider the actual intent?

Hamas is counting on people like you for public support.



Are they really? I don't think they are counting on anyone. Israel, on the other hand is.
The Likud Party is counting on the US and fellow right wingers to help them carry out their God given decree to destroy their enemies including women, children and pets. Amalek. The rest of Israel wants peace but they are being held hostage by a bunch of religious elders and fundamental extremists who deliberately endanger THEIR PEOPLE.


Israel is not counting on the U.S in this particular crisis. It's getting frustrating reading all these accusations of genocide. If Israel really wanted to wipe out the people in the Gaza strip, they could have done so by now. It breaks my heart that innocent children are falling victim to this violence (palestinian or israeli), but make no mistake about it, Israel is not targeting civilians intentionally.

You claim that Israel wants peace but they are being held hostage by religious extremists that deliberately endanger their own people. Do you feel the same about Hamas?
edit on 17-11-2012 by DeadSeraph because: (no reason given)



And I think the US knew this was going to happen. Hamas was elected so its a little different I think but essentially yes they are endangering the people but lobbing rockets is as likely to be done by any extremist group or one deranged individual, not necessarily Hamas. I think they are their peoples far right wing extremists but that they are trying to appear legit. The Palestinians are an oppressed people who do not enjoy freedom in their own homeland because of Israel and that is bound to cause some resentment. People get frustrated and people explode. If you are a slave you have nothing to lose and you may as well die fighting. If you have dignity and a reasonable life you are not as likely to risk that measure of peace waging war or causing trouble for another group.


edit on 17-11-2012 by newcovenant because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 11:05 PM
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Originally posted by cayrichard
There has to be a good reason why Israel refuses to allow UN human rights inspectors into the country.


Care to provide some proof of that claim? Or is it just more Israeli bashing, not based on any facts.



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 11:26 PM
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This is sort of in reply here and sort of in reply to the ATS radio show comments.

I don't hate anybody. Just me trying to express what I believe to be true. There was talk of bullies but they didn't mean Israel.
There was talk of fighting over a piece of land. Also, talk about homelands.

I think this stopped being about a piece of land the first time blood was shed.
Far more blood has been shed by the Palestineans. They are avenging children, mothers, fathers and grandparents. The piece of land might have been in their family for a hundred years or more given over
to strangers who made them their enemies.

It was intentional. It was expected and known this would happen.
It was someone else's homeland the FIRST time Israel laid claim thousands of years ago.

They left it. They left it and were driven off two thousand years ago by and large.

After World War II the people who were in concentration camps or worker camps in Germany had homelands.
They came from somewhere. Why did they not choose to return to them? Why did they choose to be plopped
down in the Middle East? Because the land was offered to them for free? If they went back to their homes before the War they would have had to buy them back because someone lived there now?
What irony. It's a wonder they didn't force those people out to give the land back to the returning Jews.
That at least would have made more sense.

But, what would be the situation if a band of Indians decended from 300 years ago decided they had been ripped off and demanded back Manhattan?

Can anybody think of another situation where this has been the solution? I suppose we should all be glad that honoring thousand year old birthrights to former homeland reclamations did not catch on everywhere.



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 11:37 PM
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Originally posted by PaperbackWriter
This is sort of in reply here and sort of in reply to the ATS radio show comments.

I don't hate anybody. Just me trying to express what I believe to be true. There was talk of bullies but they didn't mean Israel.
There was talk of fighting over a piece of land. Also, talk about homelands.

I think this stopped being about a piece of land the first time blood was shed.
Far more blood has been shed by the Palestineans. They are avenging children, mothers, fathers and grandparents. The piece of land might have been in their family for a hundred years or more given over
to strangers who made them their enemies.

It was intentional. It was expected and known this would happen.
It was someone else's homeland the FIRST time Israel laid claim thousands of years ago.

They left it. They left it and were driven off two thousand years ago by and large.

After World War II the people who were in concentration camps or worker camps in Germany had homelands.
They came from somewhere. Why did they not choose to return to them? Why did they choose to be plopped
down in the Middle East? Because the land was offered to them for free? If they went back to their homes before the War they would have had to buy them back because someone lived there now?
What irony. It's a wonder they didn't force those people out to give the land back to the returning Jews.
That at least would have made more sense.

But, what would be the situation if a band of Indians decended from 300 years ago decided they had been ripped off and demanded back Manhattan?

Can anybody think of another situation where this has been the solution? I suppose we should all be glad that honoring thousand year old birthrights to former homeland reclamations did not catch on everywhere.







Where do people get their history from? Apparently we aren't learning the same thing.

communities.washingtontimes.com...



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 11:38 PM
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Originally posted by hellobruce

Originally posted by cayrichard
There has to be a good reason why Israel refuses to allow UN human rights inspectors into the country.


Care to provide some proof of that claim? Or is it just more Israeli bashing, not based on any facts.


rt.com...



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 11:41 PM
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Oh am I supposed to read the Washington Times article to learn the history?
I was referring to Biblical history.
I'll take the latter, you can take the former if you wish.



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 11:48 PM
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Originally posted by PaperbackWriter
Oh am I supposed to read the Washington Times article to learn the history?
I was referring to Biblical history.
I'll take the latter, you can take the former if you wish.


I provided the link as I feel it summarizes what I have learned about the history of the region. If it is providing an inaccurate portrayal of history, could you perhaps indicate where and how, and provide sources to the contrary?



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 11:51 PM
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Not their land ? You had better read what the Lord of Hosts has to say about that.





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