Is Religion Designed To Hold Us Back?

Originally posted by Grimpachi
I will look this up however I have never read an accredited science journal stating a religion to be true or where science has proven religions teachings I have found it to be the opposite.

You have to understand the 'crowd' they cater too. There are many scientists who are Christian, but there are many more who are very anti-religious in general. They consider it a type of prejudice to their science if they allow any type of belief to cloud their outcome, yet they fail to see that becomes a religion itself and has the same effect.

I grew up knowing someone who was a scientists, and actually ended up becoming a pastor, teacher, and a writer who deals with the religious implications of many scientific findings.

Anyway, you'll find this stuff written about, but not in the hardcore science community.

Let me give you some examples of how science, archeology, and religion do peacefully coexist.

Sodom and Gomorrah (the five cities of the plains):
Originally thought to be only a story.
They have since found several of these cities. The area, which now will not support any amount of human life, was found to support these five large cities. At least two of them appear to have been destroyed at nearly the same time, and in a manner that seems consistent with the writings of the bible (possibly earthquake and fire). People were found dead, frozen, in a similar fashion to the bodies found Pompeii.

Sodom and Gomorrah
Zoara
Bab Edh-Dhra
Numeira

Noah's flood:
Again once thought to be a story.
Since then we have discovered that an asteroid impacted a shallow bit of ocean that was once in Iraq. This dates exactly to the time of the supposed flood, around 3000bc. The flash-boiling of the ocean, as well as the tsunamis created by this would fit the descriptions giving in writings such as the Bible and Epic of Gilgamesh. While the bible states that the entire 'world' would have been effected, the bible often refers to the 'known world' as the entire 'world'.

Umm Al Binni Lake

Extended lifespans:
Science has since found that by mutating a single gene, sort of like setting a 'flag' in a computer program, can more then double the lifespan of roundworms. They have some roundworms that they have extended the lifespans to the human equivalent of 500years old.

Gene Longevity

Anyway, that is just a few examples for you to look further into yourself.

reply to post by defcon5


There's a different between scientific validity and religious interpretation. There's verifying the event, and then there's saying, "Oh, the event happened, so we gotta live this way," and then oppressing everyone's freedom.

Additionally, that evidence you have so helpfully provided in no way proves that any of the conversations in the Bible actually took place, or that even if they did take place, they weren't adjusted somehow. Political strife and economic challenges could easily influence the records kept during that period.

If one believe in God as something good, how that one can force people to adopt the flat plate theory, for a shape of The Planet Earth? For an example. Isn't that sin, to tell lies so obviousely? If they even believe in that?

This is true...
www.nasa.gov...



Guys governing USA are #ing criminals! Especialy, toward abroad. Wasn't that CIA who had put Milosevic to power, in Serbia? And later, that was the excuse for the sanctions, bombing, and any kind of pressure against, for an example, me? They were inside, already, since coming of Milosevic, totaly, you can believe me!

reply to post by dragnik

And they stole Yugoslav Federal Found Reserves, money from state companies. Borka Vucic was a school mate with one Rockafeller, on post diplome studies... Tens of Billion Dollars...

Jebo vas Rokfeler u dupe

“If you are a Christian you do not have to believe that all the other religions are simply wrong all through. If you are an atheist you do have to believe that the main point in all the religions of the whole world is simply one huge mistake.”

“If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning: just as, if there were no light in the universe and therefore no creatures with eyes, we should never know it was dark. Dark would be without meaning.”

“As long as you are proud you cannot know God. A proud man is always looking down on thing and people: and, of course, as long as you are looking down you cannot see something that is above you.”

“For pride is spiritual cancer: it eats up the very possibility of love, or contentment, or even common sense.”
― C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity

all great points by c.s. lewis. I probably wont see anyone challenge them either. ignoring is much easier because it lets you still believe what you tell yourself to.

Originally posted by Grimpachi
reply to post by Rezlooper

 

I would like to use the jumping off a bridge analogy for this. I do not believe being in the majority on an issue is what makes it true. Also I have read through the claim that DNA was intelligently designed and in my opinion it only shows how efficient evolution is. Keep in mind the human species is still evolving just look some of the people in South America where their pigmentation or eyes are still adapting to their environments pay close attention to those who live at higher altitudes. However I am curious since you seem to side with the numbers what is your stance on climate change considering most of science and civilized world seem to agree on that subject?

I've never been a supporter of global warming. I believe that the global warming push was more about pushing support for Agenda 21. But, I'm one of them on the bandwagon as of late that something is off this year with the weather. Maybe its the 2012 psychological effect, I don't know, but it sure seems that storms have increased in strength all over the world recently. You have Sandy, a couple of storms in Europe, one drops several feet of snow way too early and another has Italy flooded now. India just a couple of weeks ago had the worst storm they've seen in 40 years. Australia has a lightning storm that stretched clear across the continent. The list goes on and on. Here where I live in northern Wisconsin we had two very strong thunderstorms within two weeks of each other, one right before Halloween and the other just last week. I'm 41 years old and I don't remember there ever being thunderstorms this late in the year up here.

Also, in response to your comment about the ENCODE Project. I was wondering what would be the new statement from science in regards to all our DNA being used versus the argument that nearly all of our DNA was junk, therefore, we evolved. Now it just shows that evolution is efficient in your words. There's no way it could have been designed, huh? You see, a designer would have no purpose in creating junk DNA and that is why scientists claimed we must have evolved, but now that's been disproved, so the new explanation becomes efficiency.

reply to post by Grimpachi


Is it a problem? Yes expecially when you cant even commit to what you want to believe. You wonder why people still believe in God but then you express your own fears that he might exist after all. You dont know. I dont know. I do know that if you keep sitting on that fence your going to get a picket up the bumm.

reply to post by zroth


There is no religion without a god of some sort. Every group of people have their own gods. We have never been united under one god and we never will be. Each civilization creates its own gods and laws that are handed down from those gods. I dont know where the of idea of a god originated.

reply to post by Grimpachi


I just dont understand. This new uprising in Israel and Gaza has some folks talking at work but these religious fanatics are afraid because of what is says in the bible about turning your back on Israel. This one lady who is intelligent in every other way gets absolutly idiotic about it and talks about it like its something that is real. She believes what she reads in the bible. Really believes.

reply to post by MikeHawke


HA !!! I am proud of my children. It only makes my love for them greater. It does not deminish my love. See how that statement you made is false.
Pride goeth before a fall. Oh yes. When we cease being proud of what we accomplish, when we no longer care about something, when that pride goes, so does the quality of life. That puts a whole new meaning on those words now doesnt it? Pride goeth before a fall. Yes, loose your pride, your life goes down the toilet. How stupid for a religion to say you should not be proud. What crap that you cant take credit for what you are good at. How nonsensical to say be less so that you dont upset some god. Is God not proud of his creations? If I made the universe I would be so boastfull no one could stand me. Doing something like that is amazing. BE PROUD. PRIDE DOES NOT LEAD TO YOUR DOWN FALL. LACK OF PRIDE WILL.

Depends which religion.

The esoteric ones methodically show how and give blueprints to reach enlightenment, transcendence, love of all people, nonviolence, etc.

The exoteric ones like to argue and divide causing all sorts of madness and world problems.

Still, its inherently built into the psyche of the masses to long for home, soul food, spiritual knowledge. We are basically all spirits, in a material world.

The next evolutionary step is enlightenment spiritually based. It will be the end of all division, wars, ignorance, etc.

dont really see it bringing us forward lol, rabis ripping out body parts, priest molesting children, people still continuing witch hunts, wars still being commited in name of religion, numerous wars to date in name of religion and ritual killings still taking place. and thats just the tip of the iceberg.


im going to go with a big NO on that one, lol

reply to post by karen61560


We'll I'm sure your children will turn out to be gems with a mother teaching them ideals like "If I made the universe I would be so boastfull no one could stand me". Good child raising advice. im sure you do the same when small tasks are accomplished. heres another good way of looking at that pride you claim is so important.

“Pride gets no pleasure out of having something, only out of having more of it than the next man... It is the comparison that makes you proud: the pleasure of being above the rest. Once the element of competition is gone, pride is gone.”

“And out of that hopeless attempt has come nearly all that we call human history—money, poverty, ambition, war, prostitution, classes, empires, slavery—the long terrible story of man trying to find something other than God which will make him happy.”

“Prostitutes are in no danger of finding their present life so satisfactory that they cannot turn to God: the proud, the avaricious, the self-righteous, are in that danger.”
― C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity

what its more or less explaining to you is to look at the things your "pride" consists of. what the car you're driving? the job you have? its funny that if you say stuff like "If I made the universe I would be so boastful no one could stand me". that probably means you do it with smaller tasks and accomplishments too. like the other examples I gave. soo you would make everyone not stand you for something nobody in reality gives 2 #s about? that doesn't seem like a real good trade off to me. but if you think its worth it, have at it..its not saying never to take credit. there's a huge difference between taking credit and being a prideful boaster.

I love when people who never read the bible argue the bible or anything about it. to argue it most the time, is arguing being a good person and following a simple set of moral rules. I dont know how people get it so twisted. like they pull Leviticus quotes about "men not lying with other men".. when that's old testament that the bible tells us NOT to follow. instead it gave us 10 pretty easy to stick to rules. one of which being "treat everyone as you would treat yourself"..

why do people bring up Catholicism and tie it to Christianity too? ill read something in the bible like this..

Matthew 23
A Warning Against Hypocrisy

23 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4 They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them. 5 “Everything they do is done for people to see: They make their phylacteries[a] wide and the tassels on their garments long; 6 they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; 7 they love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and to be called ‘Rabbi’ by others. 8 “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. 9 And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10 Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah. 11 The greatest among you will be your servant. 12 For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.

and immediately realize Catholicism isn't really on the right track to following this. I always wonder how Catholics can read this and breeze right by it without thinking anything of it..

reply to post by Grimpachi


And here we go again. Another rant by an 'intellectual' making strong assumptions without fact checking or applying critical thinking skills.

I could lecture you all day, but the shortest way to nail due to the interest of time is that your convictions are misdirected at religion and would be far better off directing it at culture.

Nothing is more influential than CULTURE. Which is why 'religion' has so many manifestations and why groups of people can react differently despite being under the same belief system. But I guess you forgot to use your head since your ego got the best of you.

Go ahead and fact check that in the past, present, and I dare even say future. Now before I waste any more time with you, just remember: your not as smart as you think you are just because your not religious.

reply to post by Grimpachi


The problem with any sect example government. Is that the head official (president) gets blamed for what is not exactly his problem. Take religion it is the misunderstanding of the teachings and lessons that cause a problem.

And because religious zealots don't like to combine science with religion. Which is what your supposed to do you have people still living in the dark ages. And why? Power and control. If everyone knew they was god and nature is gods temple who would go to church?

It's not the religion though you could make a case that maybe it is split up into different sects so as to allow a grand entrance of the god to come along and piece it all together. Either way. I'd say who ever this god is doesn't want worship but to lead mankind into a new age. One that hes blessed various other species throughout the cosmos with.

And that's to explore beyond the cage. But are we ready for that?

reply to post by GambitVII


A faith in culture is as bad as a faith in religion; both expressions imply a turning away from those very things which culture and religion are about. Culture as a collective name for certain very valuable activities is a permissible word; but culture hypostatized, set up on its own, made into a faith, a cause, a banner, a platform, is unendurable. For none of the activities in question cares a straw for that faith or cause. It is like a return to early Semitic religion where names themselves were regarded as powers.- C.S. Lewis

reply to post by karen61560

There is no religion without a god of some sort.

I've gotta disagree with that. See, I'd have to classify my beliefs as something similar to religion (with a few small differences) but it doesn't have a god. Instead, it has a law, a principle. The word "God" implies anthropomorphic features, and I don't agree with that. Not one bit.

Laws, principles, they imply an organization brought about by natural phenomenon, an occurrence that is predictable and explainable if you look deep enough.

And I'm sure the religion/philosophy I adhere to isn't the only one like that.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

The word "God" implies anthropomorphic features, and I don't agree with that. Not one bit.

how did you come to that? it actually implies quite the opposite. the reason people have such trouble accepting God as god because they are doing just that. Giving god human characteristics. This is exactly what not to do. they take the story of Jesus like God was Jesus. he was in a sense. but not a "if Jesus died God dies" sense.

to put it sophisticated

c.s. lewis-
“But supposing God became a man - suppose our human nature which can suffer and die was amalgamated with God's nature in one person - then that person could help us. He could surrender His will, and suffer and die, because He was man; and He could do it perfectly because He was God. You and I can go through this process only if God does it in us; but God can only do it if He becomes man. Our attempts at this dying will succeed only if we men share in God's dying, just as our thinking can succeed only because it is a drop out of the ocean of His intelligence: but we cannot share God's dying unless God dies; and He cannot die except by being a man. That is the sense in which He pays our debt, and suffers for us what He Himself need not suffer at all.”

Look into c.s. lewis. he was an ex-atheist and went to oxford with the same questions. he understands what believing in God means. I can care less what you want to believe. im really just trying to point out the factual side of things.

A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell. C.S. Lewis

The theory that thought is merely a movement in the brain is, in my opinion, nonsense; for if so, that theory itself would be merely a movement, an event among atoms, which may have speed and direction but of which it would be meaningless to use the words 'true' or 'false'. C.S. Lewis

If the solar system was brought about by an accidental collision, then the appearance of organic life on this planet was also an accident, and the whole evolution of Man was an accident too. If so, then all our present thoughts are mere accidents - the accidental by-product of the movement of atoms. And this holds for the thoughts of the materialists and astronomers as well as for anyone else's. But if their thoughts - i.e., Materialism and Astronomy - are mere accidental by-products, why should we believe them to be true? I see no reason for believing that one accident should be able to give me a correct account of all the other accidents. It's like expecting the accidental shape taken by the splash when you upset a milk-jug should give you a correct account of how the jug was made and why it was upset. C.S. Lewis