Why the God premise is really REALLY BAD!

reply to post by SpearMint


Not saying I believe in religion. To me personally all religion is man-made, but from religion comes some of the greatest works mankind has ever known. Even before the major religions of the world today came to be we had works of art/science based on religion. But one cannot deny all the evils religion has brought onto man-kind.

The U.S. government may have serious flaws, but as a secular entity unable to promote or support any religion, this government sure got a lot of things right. In under three hundred years we figured out that slavery was wrong, that women have just as many rights as any man, that children are the responsibility of everyone - not just the parents. That discrimination against race, sex, and the elderly is unacceptable.

Except from the fact that it was done for destructive purposes of our society.Look at our society now and tell me it has gotten any better.It has not and it was not the intention to make it better.

Nothing is straight forward and what is socially accpetable today needs to come to an end.

Your most ignorant mistake is that you ignoire the human condition. God doesn't MAKE men act good. Men still have to respond correctly.

Your so far off it's funny.

And if only everyone thought like you and believed in the same things you do, we'd all be in paradise? Where have I heard this before?

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

If you are searching for peace, put out the fire of hatred with love. God's Word is the blueprint and journal of our journey against ourselves.

Again, the M.E. has had FIVE THOUSAND YEARS to show us the goodness in this god's word, to put out that hatred with love, to find peace. Not only has the belief in a god failed them, but this belief has kept these people wallowing in sheer ignorance, hatred, and war.

Communication is the response you get.

reply to post by jiggerj


Sounds like you blame people, not God.

People did all of those things. Atheists have done horrible things too.

All Ascended Masters have spoke of truth, peace and love. It is peoples inability to embrace these ideas that leads to war and death and separation and fear.

reply to post by jiggerj

Believing in a god is evil. Keeping religion alive is a curse upon mankind.

hello, i used to feel pretty much the same way as you, i wanted to believe there was a God, but i couldn't understand why God would let so much evil happen to innocent people, so i do understand why you ask these questions,

i know that God exists but i don't follow a religion, i do sort of agree that keeping a religion alive is a curse too but only because most religions have been completely corrupted by evil people that manage to infiltrate these groups and that many bible teaching are completely wrong, not the bible itself, but the teachings of it.

when i realised God was indeed very much real i straight away began thinking that i needed to choose a religion, but the more i learnt the more i realised that it was religion, and the powers that be that lead the religions, that got us into this mess in the first place,

believing in God isn't evil, you're probably not going to like what i say next as i didn't when it was said to me, but just the fact that you are asking or thinking these things makes me think that deep down you know there is more to this life but you're struggling to figure out what it is, please don't think i'm being patronising, its just the way that it happened for me, and please don't think for one second that i'm saying i know all the answers, because i really really don't, not even the half of it, lol

i once read a post that made a lot of sense to me, it was along the lines of ''the best lie satan ever made people believe was that he didn't exist'', i only point this out as before i believed in God (even though i did question God's existence) i never gave satan a second thought, it turned out satan's part in our world was much bigger than i could have ever imagined

i hope this sort of makes some sense to you

thanks for reading

reply to post by EnochWasRight

Are you blaming God because you don't understand what is happening right now?

EWR, you know that this is not what I'm saying. Have you mentally blocked out the point made?

Originally posted by slowisfast
reply to post by jiggerj

 

Don't be so naive. Yes, people have done horrible things in the name of God and religion. People do horrible things in the name of Freedom and Liberty! People do horrible things because people do horrible things.
But people also do beautiful things. And people have done beautiful things in the name of and for God.
Paintings and sculptures. Poetry and prose. Architecture all over the world. Culture! Also, another thing which you'd never be able to quantify and that goes on daily all around the world, is the work folks are doing in the lives of people in their communities because they feel God pulling at their heart. Things that go unannounced, unrecognized and under appreciated. People helping people because God said to love your neighbor as yourself.

No, sir, don't YOU be naive. Some people help others in the name of a god, while others just help out of the kindness of their heart. We don't need a god for this. People create beautiful art - we don't need a god for this. Poetry and prose, nope, no god required.

Do YOU need a god to tell you to love and help your neighbor?

Culture through god, well, you're 100% right on that account, which is why the middle east is full of ignorant savages.

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by jiggerj

 

So it's your belief that if religion was gone, all the greedy people would stop being greedy? No more wars?

Delusional is a term that makes sense here.

I don't care for organized religion either, but to think it wouldn't be replaced by some new power is just wrong.

Delusional? Have you any idea how many people would be alive today if they hadn't been killed solely in the name of a god? Yes, people kill for greed, power, even for food. Some kill simply because they are insane. We can't stop these murders because they are a problem that exists in the here and now. But to kill or be killed for a god? That is a total waste of life.

Originally posted by eleven44
reply to post by jiggerj

 

Sounds like you blame people, not God.

People did all of those things. Atheists have done horrible things too.

All Ascended Masters have spoke of truth, peace and love. It is peoples inability to embrace these ideas that leads to war and death and separation and fear.

Sounds like you're denying the truth. You tell me that the Middle East is NOT a mess because of the belief in a god for over five thousand years.

reply to post by Minnie1985

believing in God isn't evil, you're probably not going to like what i say next as i didn't when it was said to me, but just the fact that you are asking or thinking these things makes me think that deep down you know there is more to this life

I am not asking anything. I am merely stating what should be obvious to everyone. As for why I'm voicing my opinion; I want to leave this world a little better off when I die. I want to be counted as one of the growing number of rational people that cannot tolerate murders and wars in the name of some mystical magical entity. An entity that, if real and if all-powerfull, would never allow so many atrocities carried out in his/her/its name. An entity that is supposedly so perfect that his message would also have been perfectly clear to his imperfect children. An entity that would never have allowed the Middle East to become a five thousand year cesspool of rape, murder, hatred, abuse - all done in his name.

reply to post by jiggerj

I am not asking anything. I am merely stating what should be obvious to everyone. As for why I'm voicing my opinion; I want to leave this world a little better off when I die. I want to be counted as one of the growing number of rational people that cannot tolerate murders and wars in the name of some mystical magical entity. An entity that, if real and if all-powerfull, would never allow so many atrocities carried out in his/her/its name. An entity that is supposedly so perfect that his message would also have been perfectly clear to his imperfect children. An entity that would never have allowed the Middle East to become a five thousand year cesspool of rape, murder, hatred, abuse - all done in his name.

Hi, i see exactly where you're coming from as i used to think the same, i am very rational and cannot tolerate murders, wars or unfairness at all, but i do believe in God and know that when i die its not the end, and that the pain and suffering in this life is won't exist for us in the next life, its a shame that religions ever came about, all we really need is to love each other and not want to profit off each other, religion has been used as a tool for a very long time,

my problem is that i struggle to put the way i feel into words that actually make sense and it really frustrates me,

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by slowisfast
reply to post by jiggerj

 

Don't be so naive. Yes, people have done horrible things in the name of God and religion. People do horrible things in the name of Freedom and Liberty! People do horrible things because people do horrible things.
But people also do beautiful things. And people have done beautiful things in the name of and for God.
Paintings and sculptures. Poetry and prose. Architecture all over the world. Culture! Also, another thing which you'd never be able to quantify and that goes on daily all around the world, is the work folks are doing in the lives of people in their communities because they feel God pulling at their heart. Things that go unannounced, unrecognized and under appreciated. People helping people because God said to love your neighbor as yourself.

No, sir, don't YOU be naive. Some people help others in the name of a god, while others just help out of the kindness of their heart. We don't need a god for this. People create beautiful art - we don't need a god for this. Poetry and prose, nope, no god required.

Do YOU need a god to tell you to love and help your neighbor?

Culture through god, well, you're 100% right on that account, which is why the middle east is full of ignorant savages.

"Be not arrogant because of that which you know; deal with the ignorant as with the learned; for the barriers of art are not closed, no artist being in possession of the perfection to which he should aspire. But good words are more difficult to find than the emerald, for it is by slaves that that is discovered among the rocks of pegmatite."

Speaking of the artist, what did PhatHotep know in the 5th Dynasty Egypt that you are missing? Who possesses the Spirit that enlivens matter for consciousness? You are possessed by it, not in possession of it. It is a gift that you do not own. What you do own are the choices to use that Spirit according to law or against law. People are not simply people in a meaningless and random universe. We are spiritual beings having a human experience and not the other way around. They choose to engage free will for or against law. The law is the determining factor in this and not the one choosing. Either we suffer for reward as a goal or we suffer because we took a reward that was not earned or untied by the law.

Here is something I wrote on ATS as SuperiorEd.

"Certain objects, beliefs and pursuits from the physical and spiritual world are either ‘untied’ (permitted-“mutar”) or ‘tied down’ (forbidden – “asur”) by God. Hebrew tradition refers to these forbidden objects and ideas as “impure shells” (kelipot ha-temei’ot) – fundamentally evil urges or desires. Idols do not elevate the soul, but rather, separate it from God. When we turn to God’s Spirit instead, we cleanse ourselves from these desires, allowing God to draw us closer to truth and righteousness. The main idol of selfish pride is removed when we lean on God instead of our own wisdom."

You would likely say this is random and not from a cause. I would suggest that I have Science on my side with this. What is written in the Bible has multiple witnesses to demonstrate axiomatic concepts and not simply misplaced concreteness. The Bible stands on a firm foundation that can be seen and experienced. Break the law and it breaks you.

reply to post by jiggerj


Atheism is just as bad as having a religion.

God doesn't exist because of religion, religion exists because of God.
People know something beyond us exists as our creator.
Not knowing how to explain it, in making things more comfortable, They need a story to back it up.
Humans like to think they know things, that's one of our biggest problems.

Knowledge doesn't actually exist as anything but another word, like God. And we try to understand it by putting words into it. However, we cannot even begin to portray with our vocabulary the way it actually is beyond this planet.

Knowledge is always changing, therefore making whatever we think we know, something that will eventually change. In truth meaning, we don't actually know.

Atheist believe they know nothing exists as a god, if they actually "knew," what was good for them, they wouldn't think they know anything, meaninging they wouldnt have a disbelief in god, just an acceptance that everything just is what it is because it just is, we don't know much. And we dont deserve to know why.

reply to post by jiggerj


I think you raise some good points. Although I would caution you against lumping "Religion" and "God" together as the former is man-made, while the latter (if God exists) is divine. I think the major problem for mankind has been organised religion, not belief in a God. One's personal belief in a God is fine; it's when people start trying to influence and scare others with their beliefs that things turn bad.

I know this is from a video game but I think this makes a lot of sense. Watch the whole thing or just skip to about 4:10 and then watch it.

Originally posted by jiggerj
In a previous thread people asked me why atheists should care about others worshiping an imaginary god. Well, I gave an answer to this before, but I didn't grasp the full weight of until these last few days.

Belief in a supernatural being has always led to the creation of religions. And, just what have religions done for mankind? Most believers think about the little things that religion has done, such as, charities that help the poor and the sick. Of course, helping out is a good thing, but compared to the utter evil that religion spreads, this helping out is of no consequence.

Consider this:

The U.S. government may have serious flaws, but as a secular entity unable to promote or support any religion, this government sure got a lot of things right. In under three hundred years we figured out that slavery was wrong, that women have just as many rights as any man, that children are the responsibility of everyone - not just the parents. That discrimination against race, sex, and the elderly is unacceptable.

We figured all of this stuff out in just a couple hundred years.

The Middle East is the birthplace of all of the major religions. The people in this region have had FIVE THOUSAND YEARS to get it right, and they aren't even close! Their belief in a god, and with their religions, they feel justified in shooting little girls trying to go to school. They throw acid in children's faces. They cut off their wife's nose. They honor kill their kids. They kidnap infidels and cut off their heads. They crash planes into buildings. They kill each other for not being a believer in their brand of religion.

For FIVE THOUSAND YEARS their belief in a god has kept them wallowing in ignorance and hatred and intolerance and sheer brutal savagery.

And, in all of these FIVE THOUSAND YEARS their god has never once appeared to say, "This isn't what I want from you."

To participate in the belief of an absentee god, to allow religions to flourish around the world, is to be guilty of all of the atrocities by association.

Believing in a god is evil. Keeping religion alive is a curse upon mankind.

Well you're talking about rare cases involving muslim extremists, and definitely not Christians. So at least get that straight. And to say it was g--v who did anything good, that's a laugh. They're goal is to only further enslave us. We're already there slaves financially speaking. If you don't pay your taxes they put you in a financial straight jacket. The next phase is to chip all of us and then eventually put us all in prison cities, then in pods. Oh thank you G==v for all you've done and are doing to keep me safe and improve my life. get real

Besides the question again is why are you so obcessed with God, creation, and religion? I don't get it. Why are most atheists completely and utterly obcessed with God? more so that most Christians even. They should just become Christians since they'd make excellent fundimentalists since there obcession is so strong. ...Perhaps the hope that somehow being able to disprove it will save them from hell or death. Get real you die as an atheist and you go direct to hell, you've been warned.

reply to post by Dark Ghost


The name "god" is man made, not the actual being. I was not lumping anything together but words, words are too restrictive to what actually is, and we aren't even sure what that completely pertains to. The word god, the word knowledge, the word atheist, the word religion ...etc, they are all man made, they are words, language. Made for us to help understand things the best we can, the point is we never will and words are just words, not actualities. Communication and language is great but doesn't tell all. We need to not claiming we know things. If we did, things wouldn't be how they are today ...so unorganized and short on love and peace, tranquility and oneness.

You are right, the problem is organized religion ...the confusion and manipulation lies there. It helps people to reject the ideas of what actually is ..a lot of it is the rules that apply with each religion. Whatever, some people need that structure and that's al they will have, but there is a reason for it and a reason for the time it's happening.

I have always said, Faith, or Religion itself is not the problem, ORGANIZED Religion however is, Ban it. If you can't follow or worship God without others around, then you don't really believe, you are only there for the status.