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Why the God premise is really REALLY BAD!

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posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 08:19 PM
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In a previous thread people asked me why atheists should care about others worshiping an imaginary god. Well, I gave an answer to this before, but I didn't grasp the full weight of until these last few days.

Belief in a supernatural being has always led to the creation of religions. And, just what have religions done for mankind? Most believers think about the little things that religion has done, such as, charities that help the poor and the sick. Of course, helping out is a good thing, but compared to the utter evil that religion spreads, this helping out is of no consequence.

Consider this:

The U.S. government may have serious flaws, but as a secular entity unable to promote or support any religion, this government sure got a lot of things right. In under three hundred years we figured out that slavery was wrong, that women have just as many rights as any man, that children are the responsibility of everyone - not just the parents. That discrimination against race, sex, and the elderly is unacceptable.

We figured all of this stuff out in just a couple hundred years.

The Middle East is the birthplace of all of the major religions. The people in this region have had FIVE THOUSAND YEARS to get it right, and they aren't even close! Their belief in a god, and with their religions, they feel justified in shooting little girls trying to go to school. They throw acid in children's faces. They cut off their wife's nose. They honor kill their kids. They kidnap infidels and cut off their heads. They crash planes into buildings. They kill each other for not being a believer in their brand of religion.

For FIVE THOUSAND YEARS their belief in a god has kept them wallowing in ignorance and hatred and intolerance and sheer brutal savagery.

And, in all of these FIVE THOUSAND YEARS their god has never once appeared to say, "This isn't what I want from you."

To participate in the belief of an absentee god, to allow religions to flourish around the world, is to be guilty of all of the atrocities by association.

Believing in a god is evil. Keeping religion alive is a curse upon mankind.




posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 08:32 PM
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Well said. You get a star and flag for that. I have often said to my wife (who is Catholic) that it's not just that I do not believe, I actually think it is harmful to society. She has told me it's god first, then the family. I think that is absurd. Nothing before my family.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 09:13 PM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


the country started off on a Christian foundation and has disowned Christ over the years. Excuse me if I ask where has that gotten us?



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 09:18 PM
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What man has done in the name of their God, regardless how heinous, does not negate the possibility of one.

But, leave it to man to exploit others for their own gain, whether under the guise of religion, or not.

And you can't possibly believe that religion has added nothing of value to the world.
That's gotta be just ignorance talking.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 09:50 PM
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Originally posted by slowisfast
What man has done in the name of their God, regardless how heinous, does not negate the possibility of one.

But, leave it to man to exploit others for their own gain, whether under the guise of religion, or not.

And you can't possibly believe that religion has added nothing of value to the world.
That's gotta be just ignorance talking.


What has it added? For a long, long time religion tried to silence scientific minds like Galileo, I can't think of anything it has given the world except grief.

Edit: Upon researching this topic a bit further, I found that religion has done a lot! Enjoy.



Religion has given us quite a bit!

Here are a few things:

The demonization of other religions, e.g. Christianity demonizing Pagans ("They're devil-worshippers!"), the Romans demonizing Christians ("They're atheists and cannibals!").

Vilification of homosexuality, resulting in discrimination, parents disowning their children, murder, and suicide.

People and animals sacrificed as an offering to gods.

Food destroyed because it doesn't comply with specific religious beliefs.

Women treated like second class citizens, or even slaves, based on religious teachings.

Children growing up without music.

Children growing up to hate and fear science and scientists, because science disproves their parents' religion - leading to appalling scientific illiteracy.

Tens of thousands tortured and killed as witches (a practice which still continues today).

Millions of cats killed in the belief that witches use them as familiars, leaving rats free to spread the black death throughout Europe, killing millions of people in turn.

People bothered and sometimes woken up by door-to-door religion salespeople.

People dying because they believe their faith makes them immune to snake venom, or other lethal aspects of reality.

People dying - and letting their children die - because their religion forbids accepting medical help.

People choked, starved, poisoned, or beaten to death during exorcisms.

Female genital mutilation endorsed by religious texts, mutilation that results in infection, sterility and death.

Psychological and physiological conditions blamed on demons, preventing believers from seeking medical care.

People disowning family members for leaving their religion, in some cases symbolized by mock funerals.

Friendships and romances severed or never started over religious differences.

"Abstinence-only" sex education, resulting in five times the amount sexually transmitted diseases and teenage pregnancies - often leading to ill-fated "emergency" marriages.

Campaigns against safe sex, with similar results - responsible for much of the AIDS epidemic in Africa.

Religiously-prompted fear of polio vaccine, which halted the global eradication effort and brought polio back to many countries.

Women having septic abortions -- or being forced to have unwanted children they resent -- because religious organizations have gotten laws passed making abortion illegal or inaccessible.

Censorship (often destructive) of speech, art, books, music, films, poetry, songs and, if possible, thought.

The discouragement of rational, critical thought.

Believers whipping, impaling, poisoning or crucifying themselves during religious festivals as a demonstration of their faith and piety.

Children spending the period of their lives when the brain is most receptive to learning new information reading, rereading, and even memorizing religious texts.

People who believe the world is about to end neglect their education, are not financially responsible, and in extreme cases take part in mass suicides.

Environmental issues ignored because of beliefs that God will magically fix everything.

Wives told they will be tortured forever if they leave their abusive husbands.

People in times of trouble relying on advice from religious leaders without any sort of training in counseling or therapy.

Holy wars - followers of different faiths (or even the same faith) killing each other in the name of their (benevolent, loving and merciful) gods.

The destruction of great works of art considered to be pornographic/blasphemous, and the persecution of the artists.

Persecution/punishment of blasphemers (Salman Rushdie still has a death sentence on him), and blasphemy laws in general.

Slavery condoned by religous texts.

Children traumatized by vivid stories of eternal burning and torture to ensure that they'll be too frightened to even question religion.

Terminal patients in constant agony who would end their lives if they didn't believe it would result in eternal torture.

School boards having to spend time and money and resources on the fight to have evolution taught in the schools.

Persecution of Heretics/scientists, like Giordano Bruno (burned at the stake) and Galileo Galilei.

Blue laws forcing other businesses to stay closed so churches can generate more revenue.

Your need to pay more personal income taxes because religious organizations are exempt.

Mayors, senators, and presidents voted into office not because they're right for the job, but because of their religious beliefs.

Abuse of power, authority and trust by religious leaders (for financial gain or sexual abuse of followers and even children) - but hey, atheists are the immoral ones.

People accepting visual and auditory hallucinations unquestioningly as divine, sometimes with fatal results.

Suicide bombers, who are certain they will be rewarded in heaven.

Discrimination against atheists, such as laws stating they may not hold public office or testify in court.

Missionaries destroying/converting smaller, "heathen" religions and cultures.

Hardship compounded by the guilt required to reconcile the idea of a fair god with reality ("why is God punishing me? What have I done wrong? Don't I have enough faith?").

Human achievements - from skillful surgery to to emergency landings - attributed to gods instead of to the people actually responsible.

Mother Teresa, prolonging the agony of terminal patients and denying them pain relief, so she can offer their suffering as a gift to her god.

Suppression of logical and critical thought.

Billions spent to build, maintain, and staff houses of worship.

Grief and horror caused by the belief that dead friends and family members are tortured as punishment for disbelief.

Opposition to scientific (especially medical) progress on religious grounds.

Whole societies divided by minor differences in belief or doctrine, often resulting in violence.

Natural disasters and other tragedies used to claim God is displeased and present demands to avoid similar events (it's like terrorism, but without having to plan or do anything).

The unchecked use of fear and maintenance of ignorance to keep the population "faithful".

The attempted genocide of followers of a particular faith (e.g. the Jewish Holocaust, "ethnic cleansing" in former Yugoslavia).

Vilification of this current life as base and sinful when in fact it is fragile and precious.

Removal of responsibility for the planet and for the future because of apocalyptic beliefs that some divine being will either destroy it all or fix it all.


Where would we be without it?
edit on 15-11-2012 by SpearMint because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 10:23 PM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


Are you confusing man's actions with God's intention for good? Mankind was told that the fruit of knowledge (Technology) would be his end. We are there. In all of this, God has striven to show mankind the right way. We are baptized into the water to repent. We are here to use the inner temple and not to build the outer. We selected to build the outer temple and now we are reaping the results of lawlessness against God. God provided a perfect garden and we will leave it a field of burning weeds. Is there no hope? Not at all. Faith is the inner temple that is founded on love. Faith, Hope and Love are one thing. We are here to repent in the water. Fire sacrifices the animal and is the flaming sword of Genesis 3. We are baptized by Earth, Air, Water and Fire. We must overcome all of these before we reach Spirit. If you choose to run from repentance, the fire protects the tree of life. It's really not that hard to understand. Water puts out fire.

If you are searching for peace, put out the fire of hatred with love. God's Word is the blueprint and journal of our journey against ourselves.



posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 12:58 AM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 




The Middle East is the birthplace of all of the major religions. The people in this region have had FIVE THOUSAND YEARS to get it right, and they aren't even close! Their belief in a god, and with their religions, they feel justified in shooting little girls trying to go to school. They throw acid in children's faces. They cut off their wife's nose. They honor kill their kids. They kidnap infidels and cut off their heads. They crash planes into buildings. They kill each other for not being a believer in their brand of religion.


You are focusing on the violence of the M.E while ignoring the fact that the number of people killed in wars started by western powers is an order of magnitude higher than that of any middle eastern terrorist organization.

The violence of the entire middle east utterly pales in comparison to the wars started and fought by the so called "civilized" west, in the last 100 years alone. Is it somehow more "classy" to rain bombs on people from the sky? Is it more "civilized" to deploy atomic science to wipe out cities?

The west is proof that progress and scientific advancement does not eliminate the human instinct to kill. You still kill, but using more advanced weapons.... regardless of what your motivations are.

edit on 16-11-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 02:36 AM
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Originally posted by slowisfast
What man has done in the name of their God, regardless how heinous, does not negate the possibility of one.

But, leave it to man to exploit others for their own gain, whether under the guise of religion, or not.

And you can't possibly believe that religion has added nothing of value to the world.
That's gotta be just ignorance talking.


Name something good that religion has done that man couldn't have done without religion. Now, name something bad that religion has done that man couldn't have been done without it.

Without religion there couldn't have been religious crusades. The suicide bombers wouldn't have sacrificed their lives for their god when they flew into the WTC.



posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 02:43 AM
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Originally posted by EnochWasRight
reply to post by jiggerj
 


Are you confusing man's actions with God's intention for good?



We're talking FIVE THOUSAND YEARS, EWR. Your religion tells us that god talked to Adam and Eve, to Noah, to Abraham... Other times he sent angels.

But this god doesn't take a second to even leave a hint that the Middle East has misread his "Word" ???? Come on!



posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 02:44 AM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


Nifty rant!

whole bunch of stars for ya!



And, in all of these FIVE THOUSAND YEARS their god has never once appeared to say, "This isn't what I want from you."


Maybe that IS what their "God" wants from them?

edit on 16-11-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 03:03 AM
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You are focusing on the violence of the M.E while ignoring the fact that the number of people killed in wars started by western powers is an order of magnitude higher than that of any middle eastern terrorist organization.
reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


No, no, Skor, I am focusing on Middle Eastern history. This region, this cradle of religion, where a god supposedly revealed himself to man, should now be at the pinnacle of peace and harmony and brotherly love. They had five millennia to prove that their 'Good' book is, indeed, good. If what we see in that region today isn't considered a complete and total failure of a god to clearly reveal his message, I don't know what is.

The wars started by western powers has always been about greed. There's no denying it. What this proves, however, is that with or without a god, we are a war-like species, and believing in a god for over five thousand years has done NOTHING to remedy this. So, what's the point in believing in a god?



posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 03:08 AM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


Human beings are easily controlled because they fear death. The organized religions put fear into people saying that when they die they will be rewarded or punished.
You say that slavery is no more but you do not see how slavery has been upgraded so you don't realize that you are still a slave (to the system). youtu.be...

If you were to realize the real God you would find it is not what organized religions have you believe.



posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 03:08 AM
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reply to post by EnochWasRight
 





If you are searching for peace, put out the fire of hatred with love. God's Word is the blueprint and journal of our journey against ourselves.


Again, the M.E. has had FIVE THOUSAND YEARS to show us the goodness in this god's word, to put out that hatred with love, to find peace. Not only has the belief in a god failed them, but this belief has kept these people wallowing in sheer ignorance, hatred, and war.



posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 03:10 AM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


There is no point in 'believing' in God. Believing is not knowing.
'Belief' is not truth.
Never believe.
edit on 16-11-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 03:40 AM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 

a belief in supernatural being is totally WISDOM. this is why humanity always worshiped a supernatural being (according to their own wisdom) throughout history so prophets came to guide humanity that Sun and Moon are not the ultimate and the creator of sun and moon is far greater. prophets came to motivate people's wisdom to a new world. people that would know they are weak and think that Sun was the supernatural so prophets came to say no world is far greater than what they would think and the creator of the world is even greater as well.
moreover religion of USA is Capitalism, what is your point !?



posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 04:48 AM
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Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
reply to post by jiggerj
 


Are you confusing man's actions with God's intention for good?



We're talking FIVE THOUSAND YEARS, EWR. Your religion tells us that god talked to Adam and Eve, to Noah, to Abraham... Other times he sent angels.

But this god doesn't take a second to even leave a hint that the Middle East has misread his "Word" ???? Come on!


Are you blaming God because you don't understand what is happening right now? There is a why for what is happening and God is in control. Not only is He in control, all of this has been known since God told mankind that Satan would bruise our heal, but we would crush his head. He left us His word and further promised that the wicked would not understand as God tells the righteous exactly what is happening. Those who have faith and hope understand fully. Those who choose to love are loved as well. It is about recognizing the gift and the giver.

Daniel 12

9 He replied, “Go your way, Daniel, because the words are rolled up and sealed until the time of the end. 10 Many will be purified, made spotless and refined, but the wicked will continue to be wicked. None of the wicked will understand, but those who are wise will understand.

11 “From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days. 12 Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days.

13 “As for you, go your way till the end. You will rest, and then at the end of the days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance.”

Isaiah 26

29 But your dead will live, Lord;
their bodies will rise—
let those who dwell in the dust
wake up and shout for joy—
your dew is like the dew of the morning;
the earth will give birth to her dead.
20 Go, my people, enter your rooms
and shut the doors behind you;
hide yourselves for a little while
until his wrath has passed by.
21 See, the Lord is coming out of his dwelling
to punish the people of the earth for their sins.
The earth will disclose the blood shed on it;
the earth will conceal its slain no longer.

If Daniel will rest until the 1000 years of peace on Earth with Christ, what does that say about you and I here in this time? Paul told you. Did you read it?

Acts 24

15 and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. 16 So I strive always to keep my conscience clear before God and man.

Both the righteous and the wicked will be resurrected together to see this:

Hebrews 9

27 Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

You are here in the waters of baptism to repent and rise to new life. That's the souls job each time it appears and is clothed in the tent of the body. It's a wilderness. You either work to survive or you suffer the consequences of what you take.

The Bible is the most printed book on the planet and is published on the internet in all languages. Are you sure you think God didn't leave even one clue to the Arabs? They have had the scriptures longer than us. The whole of scripture is Eastern. Are you sure about what you are suggesting?




edit on 16-11-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 04:59 AM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


Don't be so naive. Yes, people have done horrible things in the name of God and religion. People do horrible things in the name of Freedom and Liberty! People do horrible things because people do horrible things.
But people also do beautiful things. And people have done beautiful things in the name of and for God.
Paintings and sculptures. Poetry and prose. Architecture all over the world. Culture! Also, another thing which you'd never be able to quantify and that goes on daily all around the world, is the work folks are doing in the lives of people in their communities because they feel God pulling at their heart. Things that go unannounced, unrecognized and under appreciated. People helping people because God said to love your neighbor as yourself.



posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 08:06 AM
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Originally posted by backcase
reply to post by jiggerj
 


the country started off on a Christian foundation and has disowned Christ over the years. Excuse me if I ask where has that gotten us?

lol... actually the opposite is closer to the truth.





posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 12:43 PM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


So it's your belief that if religion was gone, all the greedy people would stop being greedy? No more wars?

Delusional is a term that makes sense here.

I don't care for organized religion either, but to think it wouldn't be replaced by some new power is just wrong.



posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 01:00 PM
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Exceptional post OP. All super valid points. If god would just show up in person and clarify his demands I think that would help straighten out a lot of these religious zealots. They need some real-time supervision. Why people would worship a god who demands mass murder is perplexing to me. That cannot be what he meant for them to do. If it is, he ought to be ignored.






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