What this new flare-up in the Middle East is all about. We're being thrown a curve people.

reply to post by ISHAMAGI


It is of no use discussing politics with Americans, the meaning of communism, socialism even capitalism has been so completely subverted that it does not permit any intelligent discourse (btw that was a great move to curb the intelligentsia and external political influence)...

Great info and perspective. (S&F)

reply to post by doug r


7 weeks...

It was reported today in Israel that they are preparing for a 7 week war.

Your conclusion is well within the realm of possibility. Great thread.

God Bless,

Originally posted by ElohimJD
reply to post by doug r

 

7 weeks...

It was reported today in Israel that they are preparing for a 7 week war.

Your conclusion is well within the realm of possibility. Great thread.

God Bless,

See that? I saw that headline and even though I saw what's happening, that connection hadn't yet dawned on me.
Your own insight shows the true spirit of open sourcing.
Thanks for bringing that here.

reply to post by ANOK

Money changers yes, the system of capitalism no. Capitalism is the private ownership of the means of production. Before the inclosure laws, and the industrial revolution, generally private property was not used to exploit labour. People were mostly autonomous, and lived off the land. They were mostly exploited by the Church and the state, taxes etc.


Yes, but that is not capitalism. Again capitalism is when private property owners use their property to hire wage labour, in order to exploit that labour for their own financial gain. A financial gain they can invest and make more money from.

Apparently there’s something I’m missing here. Who funds the capitalists and property owners if not money lenders? For that matter, who funds (capitalizes) communist governments?

You probably know British history a lot better than I do, but a whole succession of English monarchs got in over their heads (some of them literally) with lenders and goldsmiths who had capitalized them, going at least as far back as the 1200s and probably much earlier. New ships for the fleets and new crown jewels, building those grand cathedrals. Being a king or queen doesn’t come cheap, you know.

Since then and still today there is no such thing as a government or property owner in the western world that can be capitalized to any degree, or hire wage labor, without a lender lurking behind the entire enterprise. Likewise, it doesn't matter what you call a nation's form and style of governing, the lenders remain at the top of the heap and in full control of currency and commerce.

The English peasants were "autonomous" and "lived off the land"? What a hoot. www.historylearningsite.co.uk...

A lot of those peasants sold themselves as HUMAN capital to wealthy plantation owners in the new world to serve as indentured servants for a number of years just to get out of the choking English system and have a chance for a future. Out of the frying pan, into the fire.

Originally posted by Panic2k11
reply to post by ISHAMAGI

 

It is of no use discussing politics with Americans, the meaning of communism, socialism even capitalism has been so completely subverted that it does not permit any intelligent discourse (btw that was a great move to curb the intelligentsia and external political influence)...

edit on 16-11-2012 by Panic2k11 because: (no reason given)

It is of no use talking politics with Panic2k11, he is a discriminating, sterotyping elitist who categorizes 315 million people into one category based on prejudice. It does not permit any intellegent discourse.

Communism: a system of social organization in which all economic and social activity is controlled by a totalitarian state dominated by a single and self-perpetuating political party.

Socialism: a system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

Capitolism: an economic system in which investment in and ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of wealth is made and maintained chiefly by private individuals or corporations, especially as contrasted to cooperatively or state-owned means of wealth.

Now be an adult and act like a human being who understand each mind on Earth has been exposed to a miriad of different knowledge bases and noone knows what they don't know. Painting all members of a group as one is lazy and creates a false reality where you only hurt your own ability to learn and grow.

God Bless,

As a species we can't keep heading down this path. The love of paper has overshadowed the love of planet. How many times must we learn this lesson? We just may end up needing help from someone "out there".

Originally posted by madenusa
In 1970, Henry Kissinger made a deal with the Saudi Arabian government that American debt would be purchased in exchange for cheap oil. Since then Iran has taken control over the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) by their use of gold as currency which has threatened the direct value of the US dollar as the global reserve currency
.theintelhub.com...

I'm sorry that makes no logical sense unless i'm reading it wrong... first off no country is going to buy another countries debt AND give them lower prices for their exported resources.. eh?

reply to post by Panic2k11


You see, it is not the "meanings" of these systems that have been blurred...it's the implemention of them around the world which has been blurred.
Communist China blurs from hard-line communism to a hybrid of capitalism and very authoritative but much less hard-line communism...moving slowly along the scale toward socialism.

In the US, a democratic republic has been blurred from highly capitalistic to a hybrid of capitalism and very authoritative socialism.

Europe is so incredibly obviously a flat out hybrid of capitalism and very authoritative socialistic entity.

In all 3 cases, the authoritative nature of these systems remained as a consistent component while all other original components were reconfigured.

A transparentocracy can fully address the problem since it directly reconfigures the component of "authority" into one that is no longer the weakest link.
The idea of a transparentocracy brings the perspective that the REAL class "struggle" is between those with authority and those under authority. The same authorities have been imposing these systems on everyone for quite a few centuries now. They definitely ignore the lack of attention that's ever really paid toward the authority component of all these systems because....well, you know.

It's obvious that at the stage "civilization" has now reached, a Transparentocracy is likely the best way forward. Once the Authority problem is taken care of, the Communism/Socialism/Democracy/Republic/etc details will be incredibly easy to iron out.

Communism failed. It does not work because a system where the state becomes GOD is sure to succumb to corruption. That and the fact that altruism on the level required to make it work goes against human nature, people are inherently greedy and selfish and will only work for the common good to a point, Capitalism is far from perfect, but for a time when it was somewhat properly regulated, it created a good standard of living for people. It is not working now because its largely unregulated and the rule of law doesn't seem to a apply to the people controlling it. We need not fall into communism to fix it, we just have to start to enforce the law again and jail financiers who break it at the expense of millions. We Americans have a GOOD country, we just have to get it back on track. The extremists on both sides of the isle cant do that.

Originally posted by openminded2011
We need not fall into communism to fix it, we just have to start to enforce the law again and jail financiers who break it at the expense of millions. We Americans have a GOOD country, we just have to get it back on track. The extremists on both sides of the isle cant do that.

Who is we? The people who have the authority to make the arrests and prosecute the financiers are in the pockets of the financiers.

reply to post by openminded2011


Except in Cuba and China Communism seems to work. In different ways and with different results, but still working better than Democracies of the west. From a western perspective, communism doesnt work, from a Cuban/Chinese perspective, Democracy doesn't work. Its all very subjective. The truth is, any system can work and any system can fail, it depends on the quality of the people that wield power and the influence that the people itself holds over their governments. The system doesnt matter. This, I tell you from experience, as I have lived in Communism, Socialism and now in Democracy and Capitalism. The system of government is irrelevant, its a myth that it does.

Originally posted by badnickname
reply to post by openminded2011

 

Except in Cuba and China Communism seems to work. In different ways and with different results, but still working better than Democracies of the west. From a western perspective, communism doesnt work, from a Cuban/Chinese perspective, Democracy doesn't work. Its all very subjective. The truth is, any system can work and any system can fail, it depends on the quality of the people that wield power and the influence that the people itself holds over their governments. The system doesnt matter. This, I tell you from experience, as I have lived in Communism, Socialism and now in Democracy and Capitalism. The system of government is irrelevant, its a myth that it does.

Scroll up the page a bit:

"You see, it is not the "meanings" of these systems that have been blurred...it's the implemention of them around the world which has been blurred.
Communist China blurs from hard-line communism to a hybrid of capitalism and very authoritative but much less hard-line communism...moving slowly along the scale toward socialism. "

Wow Doug.

We are sure glad your the one person in the world that actually knows whats going on. Please contact Israeli and Paletinian radio and let them know what you know will you!

Originally posted by ElohimJD

Originally posted by Panic2k11
reply to post by ISHAMAGI

 

It is of no use discussing politics with Americans, the meaning of communism, socialism even capitalism has been so completely subverted that it does not permit any intelligent discourse (btw that was a great move to curb the intelligentsia and external political influence)...

edit on 16-11-2012 by Panic2k11 because: (no reason given)

It is of no use talking politics with Panic2k11, he is a discriminating, sterotyping elitist who categorizes 315 million people into one category based on prejudice. It does not permit any intellegent discourse.

Communism: a system of social organization in which all economic and social activity is controlled by a totalitarian state dominated by a single and self-perpetuating political party.

Socialism: a system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

Capitolism: an economic system in which investment in and ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of wealth is made and maintained chiefly by private individuals or corporations, especially as contrasted to cooperatively or state-owned means of wealth.

Now be an adult and act like a human being who understand each mind on Earth has been exposed to a miriad of different knowledge bases and noone knows what they don't know. Painting all members of a group as one is lazy and creates a false reality where you only hurt your own ability to learn and grow.

God Bless,

Capitalism=everything is privately owned
Socialism=mixed economy
Communism=everything is publicly owned

There are different flavors of each. Communism does not need to be an authoritarian government, but it usually ends up being so because too many people want a mixed economy so they can continue to be proprieters or partners in business. Some people are "greedy" and thus a threat to the system and the rulers.

I have not lived in communism, but I do have first hand knowledge of capitalism and socialism. Also know that the luciferian brotherhood(high level masons) and most of them are also "bankers" do not want socialism or communism to succeed. It is much easier for them to infiltrate governments where a capitalist system is in place so they can consolidate business and corner the markets for maximum influence. Something has to be privately owned in the first place(which capitalism allows) to affect a buyout or merger.

Why do you think the Middle East (ie the same old actors) is "flaring up" RIGHT NOW??? "LOOK OVER HERE!!! ROCKETS AND DEATH AND DESTRUCTION ON THE VERGE OF ESCALATION AND FREAKING ARMAGEDDON!!!!!!!!!"

It's not a distraction.....
They're taking out the palestinians, so they can attack Iran. Isn't it obvious?
They wouldn't be able to attack Iran, without Hamas launching rockets into their land....and since their troops would be in Iran, they would have nobody to fend off the attack from the Gaza side.
So they're taking out the Palestinians now...and Iran can't do anything. If they attack Israel now, the whole international community would defend Israel, easily convincing the masses.

Originally posted by frazzle

Originally posted by openminded2011
We need not fall into communism to fix it, we just have to start to enforce the law again and jail financiers who break it at the expense of millions. We Americans have a GOOD country, we just have to get it back on track. The extremists on both sides of the isle cant do that.

Who is we? The people who have the authority to make the arrests and prosecute the financiers are in the pockets of the financiers.

Much like ufos and aliens. The scientists who pretend to study this phenomena are actually in a position to cover-up everything. Then they claim the evidence is not sufficient; well of course it is not sufficient if it is classifed top secret and the public has no access to it.

Its not really 'new' as its has always been there, IMO.

reply to post by Ghost375


Nothing like what's happening over there begins for just one or two reasons.
Both sides are being used as pawns. If it wasn't there it would have been somewhere else.
The root cause for the current outbreak of hostility is as I described though.

Like most threads on ATS the question of WHY is not considered.

Why would the .0001% of the population want a global financial instability to occur. THEY DON'T

What is beyond the comprehension of most of the people on this web site is that those who have attained positions of power in the last 70 to 50 years are over 50 years of age and most of them see computers as an ANNOYANCE.

This has allowed those in the financial markets who finance universities to employ the latest whizz kids to continually create financial systems that are beyond the comprehension of those that are in power to disengage them before they escalate out of proportion.

It wasn't just a few of the major financial institutions that had their finger in the honey jar, IT WAS ALL OF THEM.

Realize that power and control is TOTALLY RELIANT UPON THAT WHICH IT TRIES TO CONTROL.

THE MONEY IS NOT REAL yet they need to control the illusion of its reality is and if you try to mess with that then you are by that 1933 Presidential Order, in for an unfortunate accident.

Realize that those in power are struggling with the mind boggling statistics of global governance.

This is why no human civilization has survived more than a couple of thousand years. Even with modern computers we are still up to the bottom of our eye balls in a pit of our own, 'you know what'.

Yet WHY?

What is it about HUMAN NATURE that continually compels us to empower those that are incapable of sustaining the basic requirements for the majority so the minority can continue to live in there bubble of isolational illusionary bliss until once again the majority get fed up them and want to cut off there heads.

WHY? And why haven't we learnt from our own human history.

Are we still oblivious to the long term consequences of our justified wants, I guess we are.