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Abduction or imagination? Is something in our forests?

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posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 11:21 PM
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reply to post by misskat1
 


Yeah that's the first thing that popped in my mind. A 3 year old just isn't going to come up with something like that unless of course it was an authentic experience. There could be a nutcase on the loose out there running from the law and preys on people. Maybe you can dig some more info from him like how big this person or thing was and if he was carried or not. If he wasn't being carried then this cave is close by from where he was found.

My uncle & father years ago have found a Indian cave while out elk hunting in the state I live in now. My uncle happens to be a forestry ranger as well. So he knows exactly where it is, but he has never revealed it's exact location to me. My father has long since passed and never revealed to me any more info either. Even after I have asked several times about it. He said, he won't reveal it's location of fear of people vandalizing it, or possibly getting trapped inside the cave system. From the details that I remember him and my father telling me was it was off of a rock cliff face and the entrance was well hidden from a pine tree growing directly in front of the cave entrance, but you could see the road down below. There is a small narrow ledge path along the rock cliff (dangerous drop off) to get to it. From inside was pictographs, a stone circle where they sat with a fire pit, further in the cave system was a burial chamber only access to some places down in the pit was by climbing in and out by rope. So it is certainly a very dangerous place to be as If anyone fell in there would be trapped or could fall to their death. I do know the mountain area that's near it's location, but I won't say as that would probably reveal to much info as it is. Someone with time, money, equipment and dedication could find it. Some things in the world are best kept secret and left alone you know?




posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 11:32 PM
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One avenue to explore would be to check were there any seismic events around the period of the "events". I ask as not only are the often magnetic disturbances which can affect the human brain on levels people still have little wide comprehension of and in active volcanic areas there are often present, fumes of various gases that can also cause totally believable and disorientating "visions". The Oracle at Delphi is case in point although this is still fiercely debated... It has been postulated that a gas high in ethylene, known to produce violent trances, came out of this opening, though this theory remains debatable..

It is also suggested that these experiences can affect the brain in a pretty long term manner and that "precognitive and intuitive senses" can remain heightened for quite some time afterwards. Obviously, this all a very hotly contested view point and yet, there does seem to be strong anecdotal evidence for it throughout history.

The again, when there are physical traces and medium term health effects it is harder to dismiss such experiences as purely the result of local seismic and volcanic activity. One person waking with a mark on their neck maybe is not so inexplicable, two people concurrently doing so, does the beg the question of just how?; without doubt.

I suppose, one could point to religious stigmata etc and outbreaks of them where, there is undoubtedly a common hysteria at the heart of them, then again, why the rear of the neck? That would imply both parties sharing a common belief system that includes some sort of stigmata appearing on the rear of a person's neck.

I've mentioned this on a Rendlesham/Bentwaters thread. The area that famous incident took place in is rich with folklore dating back over a thousand years and to this day, people still report seeing strange red orb lights floating through the forest and other anomalous phenomenon.

It would be far more comforting to say straight out that. I am almost sure that within what I have posted lies your answer and I suspect it can explain parts of what happened. On the other hand, I would be fibbing if I were to say that there aren't experiences, in such areas, that have a deeper and more profound physical aspect, that as yet, cannot be simply written off as "totally real experiences, which are actually waking dreams, that have their roots solely in our current known and understood science".

One other thing to remember is this. it tends to be only the experiences that totally "freak" people out that are reported there are, quite probably, twice as many cases where the experience was "enjoyed" and seen as profoundly spiritual where, those subjected to them felt, in the aftermath, it was almost wholly positive and that, they found a certain path through life or peace with their own personality through it.



posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 11:34 PM
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Originally posted by aboutface
Glad the little guy is alive and well, Grandma. Something no one has asked you yet is whether the child was ever hospitalized. If so, being asked for a poop sample would not be far-fetched at all, and so it might be akin to his own past experience. And so would someone examining his tummy. That's par for being in a hospital.

The second point of curiosity is whether you examined him to see if there was was an implant. And what about yourself?

The third is the impact. Is he fearful of being alone, even alone in a room with people nearby?




Excellent


Very well the child was traumatized in the past medically. If currently asked to take a stool sample wonder if he would flip out or have flashbacks of the experience. Great route to go to see reaction of child and go accordingly from there.



posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 11:40 PM
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reply to post by thepupils
 


Tweakers in caves......lol. With poop sticky paper...lmao....Holding kids to ransom?!?...lmfao.

Tweakers need electricity. They ain't going to go to the effort of running a generator in a cave to cook when it's far simpler to use a standard kitchen.

I've seriously heard it all now. Some people will make up the most irrational explanation to box the event into something they can understand within their own paradigm.

That sir is what you've just done.
edit on 16-11-2012 by LightAssassin because: Noticed the 'All seeing guy'



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 12:08 AM
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Originally posted by DocHolidaze
reply to post by The Shrike
 


here we go, my link was intended to show the op that that area has always been shrouded in mystery, just as her story is. there have been many events like this, and multiple witnesses to the strangeness in and around Shasta. the native Americans themselves have have plenty of odd stories(there such new agers right?
besides the multiple eyewitnesses and testimony to the odd things that happen in the Shasta area, i cant provide anything to back up anything in that article. But i know for a fact you cant disprove any of it. so your opinion on the matter is no better than the opinion of the hippie new agers you so haphazardly close ur mind to. The world we live on is shrouded in mystery, and this seems to be a hot spot. from this hot spot, story's like this have emerged, who are you to write them off as nonsense? There is alot more to the reality that we live everyday, open your mind up to all possibility and you may just catch a glimpse of what lurks beyond the edges of are perceived reality. absolutes are limitations, and limits are what stop discovery. i say this to help you, please dont walk through life with ur head down, with blinders on. you will miss out on alot.
edit on 16-11-2012 by DocHolidaze because: (no reason given)


Your link is worthless as anything but a source for crap and here is the crap, in brackets:
Mount Shasta can be considered as one of the most sacred places on this planet.
sa·cred:
1.Connected with God (or the gods) or dedicated to a religious purpose and so deserving veneration:
"sacred rites".
2.Religious rather than secular.

[The mountain is a mystic power source for this planet; actually, this sacred mountain is an incarnation of the Great Central Sun of this universe. It is a focus for angels, spirit-guides, spaceships, masters from the Light Realm, and the home of the survivors of Ancient Lemuria, which sank under the waves of the Pacific Ocean a little over 12,000 years ago.

For those gifted with clairvoyant abilities, Mount Shasta is embraced in a gigantic, etheric purple pyramid whose capstone reaches far beyond this planet into space, and connects us intergalactically to the Confederation of Planets for this sector of the Milky Way Galaxy.

You can call Mount Shasta the entry point of the Light-Grids of this planet, where most of the energy comes first from the galactic and universal core before it is disseminated to other mountains and into the grids. Most mountaintops, especially tall mountains, are Beacons of Light, feeding the light-grids of this planet.]

Perpetuating such bs does not help the OP in any way as her grandson's experience did not have anything to do with religion, nor any of the angels, spirit-guides, spaceships, masters from the Light Realm, the survivors of mythical Ancient Lemuria. Your link is best appreciated by those who don't have a life.



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 12:09 AM
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First of all, let me say that I am GLAD you have your grandson back safe! Secondly, for all of those who believe the alien stuff is a bunch of hoowey, I ran across this tonight: now.msn.com... . I wanted to touch on something, I have been reading this thread and find it interesting to say the least. I have something I must get off my chest. When I was almost 4 years old my family lived in a duplex apartment, (side by side) my parents would send me to bed and then later as they were getting ready to go to bed they would hear me talking to someone. They would open the door and ask me who I was talking to, and I told them I was talking to the man in the wall. This went on for months, They asked me what this man looked like, I told them he was old, with gray and black hair and blue squares all over his shirt. (They just thought I was making things up) Until one night, this same man tried to drag my mother out of the window when she was in the bed. We moved at the end of the month. My father told the new landlord about this strange man, and the new landlord said that was the previous owner, he had lived in our side, and had died there, he always wore a blue plaid shirt and he had salt and pepper hair. I know there are many who will not believe this true story, but I told this to make a point. I am 43 and can remember this to this day. Parents often do not believe their children when they are telling the truth, I could NEVER sleep, because he was always talking to me, and I could remember feeling like I could never tell them because they would be mad at me or they would not believe me. I would always waddle back downstairs and they would send me back upstairs. These things happen more than we would like to believe. Anyway, the truth is always in the details. I hope it's ok, that I shared.
edit on 17-11-2012 by AlanT1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 12:10 AM
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Originally posted by clairvoyantrose
reply to post by The Shrike
 


Why are you so close minded about "paranormal" reality? Mocking people in a way to make them look stupid for believing in such thing.


Dig yourself! I didn't mock anyone and I contributed to the thread. I criticized the link about Mt Shasta and all the bs that the link offers. You have a problem with reading comprehension?

Your criticism is out of line and you should concentrate on replying to the thread's topic.



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 12:12 AM
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This story the OP told gave me the heeby jeebies. Don't know why it just really creeped me out. I am never going in the forest alone again. Wait a minute... I survey forests everyday for a living...uh oh.



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 12:57 AM
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Any sketches from the boy yet? I would have thought the police and rescue team would have already asked the boy for his story of being lost. It suspicious if this comes later. May be the way he is coping for being lost.



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 01:28 AM
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I had a n experiene on Mt. Shasta as a child, in which a deer "spoke" to me. But I was very young, must have been about five- I still remember it, but I assume it must be a false memory.

But I have had some very strange and unexplainable experiences in forests in particular, which caused me to focus on the concept that perhaps there are some sort of entities of nature, that can take on any shape or form, when we are tuned into them. The alien phenomenon may be actually that (and not from other planets at all!)



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 01:32 AM
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This story is very creepy and unnerving. I'm glad it has come out though so I can research things I never knew about like Missing 411. I may never wish to go in the woods again.

When I was a kid, my family lived south of Klamath Falls Oregon in a trailer in the woods outside of Keno... My brother and I loved to explore. Somehow I have some very strange feelings when I think back on that time. I was only 5 years old when we left so I don't remember much. For some reason I have always been both terrified and fascinated by the idea of Bigfoot. I am the only one in my family who even cares about it. I am the only one who believes it's real. I don't know why. I have the urge to write a story about finding a colony of Bigfoot and living with them. They terrify me.

As for your grandson's story, I think something very strange happened to him. I really wonder about this "guns and purses" thing. That freaks me out. It sounds like a cave from a horror movie full of lost hiker's belongings. Maybe it was real, maybe it wasn't. Either way, if your grandson believes this happened to him, he should be horrified to go in the woods and also scared of the dark.

Is he?



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 04:52 AM
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I really wonder about this "guns and purses" thing. That freaks me out. It sounds like a cave from a horror movie full of lost hiker's belongings.


I had the same thought and was just about to post about it. It´s like in the movie The Descent about these cave explorers that found these strange creatures that lived in the caves and ate people and animals. I think there was also a scene that showed this huge cave chamber filled with bones, clothing and weapons, the belongings of people and animals they ate.




It might be the boy saw something so strange that his brain could not identify, so it just made "it" look like his grandma?

Excuse my English have been living in Germany to long!



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 05:57 AM
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The number of proven cases of pedophiles hanging about in National Parks waiting to abduct kids, perform a stool test for whatever and then release them unharmed would have to be somewhere around zero. I'm not sure what to think about the effort to produce an alternate explanation at such lengths.

I mean some folks make the ET theory look down right normal.

Maybe I should dig up some of the FBI stats and give some examples of the anomalies in the data? I'm really not interested in convincing folks, either you can read for yourself and use logic or you can't. If people who might be in some of these places are more careful and that prevents them from becoming victims, even once that's good enough for me.

In the freaky story area, I have family in law enforcement in various places including a hot spot area in a National Forest but in a State not covered in the Missing 411 book or the previous one (there is another, prior book focused more on the E Coast and parts of Canada that's not as well known, by the way).

He told me about a case involving a group of school kids on a field trip and an incident that happened in broad daylight. While they were walking up a trail, with a park ranger watching a 13yr old girl turned her head to look to the side of the trail, suddenly turned and walked off away from the group and literally vanished in the few seconds it took the ranger to hurry up to where she had been.

This triggered a search that lasted more than 24 hours.

Just as things began to look really hopeless she was found sitting not 5 feet off a main trail near the park entrance within 10 yards of the area the searchers were based from. She was non-communitive and couldn't tell anyone much of anything, they diagnosed her as being in shock and took her to a hospital. They found no evidence of injuries of any kind on her and she kept insisting she couldn't remember what happened. They felt certain she was holding back the truth and didn't want to talk about the incident.

There were so many people around the area where she was found they were completely baffled how she managed to re-appear there where and when she did. She had damage / debris in / on her clothes / shoes / hair that indicated she had traveled quite a distance in heavy woods. (Later, once she talked to her family about what she remembered she described an area the rangers claim you cannot get to without climbing gear or a helicopter and this girl's family confirmed she had never been to the park before this. Worse, this elevated area she described in perfect detail was at least 3 day's hiking from the place she vanished. They could not even come up with a theory how she could have gotten to this remote location and then all the way back without any searchers seeing her and do so 300 percent faster than the most fit ranger could have done).

She also related that she had heard her Mother calling her while walking the trail w/ the other kids and had random bits of memory from that point until reaching this remote location. She said she remembered she was walking w/ her Mom and several other people she felt were close family but could not identify. The best description of this time during which she was traveling to the remote location would be drifting in and out of sleep, waking for a few seconds just long enough to see the immediate surroundings and anyone close by. Her memory just kind of went "blink, blink, blink for the better part of the day into the night until they reached the location.

She said sometimes the people with her would seem to be family members, then animals - deer, owls, etc.

There's a lot more but I can't continue the story right now, have to step out for a few...

edit on 17-11-2012 by ecoparity because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 07:03 AM
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reply to post by misskat1
 


I'm curious as to when you were talking to him, what was the environment like? Was it just you and him, or a few people around?
Was it daylight, was he sad or scared or aprehensive in his telling of the events? Just curious.



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 07:39 AM
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Thank You for all the advice and ideas. I will try to answer several posts at once.
1) He has never been hospitalized, but that doesnt mean he didnt get a stool sample from a dr. I will ask my son about it.
2) I would rather not think about what a tweeker would have done to him, I think I would rather think it was an alien, or bigfoot than a tweeker. We do live in an area that is deeply aflicted with Meth addicts. And they are
sick.
3) We do live in a place with huge natural gas reserves, I had not thought about the delphi connection, but you could have a point.
4) He wasnt questioned by the rescue responders. the hundreds/thousands of volunteer rescue people were just so relieved he was found, no one questioned if it was an abduction. He told me that he was told that the bush would be a "good spot" and that he should wait for help. The officers told my son that if he wouldnt have climbed under the bush, he probably would not have survived the ordeal. He very easily could have fallen into the river, or gotten eatten by a wild animal. He was found over a mile up the trail. The trail he was on followed the McCloud river. It was way past dark when he was located. The rescue team several times stated that they were amazed that he was smart enough to crawl under the bush. He was found by K-9. He said that he thought the dog was a "animal" and he was going to get eatten, when he heard his name being called. He said he jumped out of the bush screaming "Here I am! Here I am". That part makes me very emotional. Its hard to even type it.
This happened on Labor day weekend 2011, which is why there was such a huge volunteer response.
He said the officer that found him, said put your head on my shoulder and hang on. He said the officer ran so fast down the trail. He also said he was soooooo cold, but the officer wrapped his arms around me, and held me so tight, I wasnt so cold then. I keep K9 and rescue people in my prayers.
5) He goes to church with the other grandparents. I grew out of religion a long time ago.
6) I have had bad neck problems for the last couple of years, I have had two MRIs and a Cat scan, but nothing has been found. They dont know why I am having problems with my neck.
7) If I ever go back and look for the cave, I would start with the location where he was found. And fan out in that direction. He said he had walked with her. So, in my opinion I think they walked to where he was found to keep the scent, and then up to a cave from there. Otherwise the K9 wouldnt have found him.
Again I thank all for taking the time to respond to my post. You have given me a lot to think about and to research.



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 07:58 AM
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reply to post by curiousrb
 


It never occured to us that he may have been abducted. That was not on our mind at all. He was just playing on my porch. And out of the blue, said "I dont like the other grandma Kappy". No one was around, just the two of us. He didnt seem afraid.
I asked him if he was scared, he said he was scared when they went into the cave/dungeon, and when he saw the guns and purses, but he said over and over that the other grandma Kappy was really nice. He thought she was me until the light sparkled on her. I asked if she gave him anything to eat, but he said no.



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 08:14 AM
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Originally posted by The Shrike

Originally posted by clairvoyantrose
reply to post by The Shrike
 


Why are you so close minded about "paranormal" reality? Mocking people in a way to make them look stupid for believing in such thing.


Dig yourself! I didn't mock anyone and I contributed to the thread. I criticized the link about Mt Shasta and all the bs that the link offers. You have a problem with reading comprehension?

Your criticism is out of line and you should concentrate on replying to the thread's topic.

Go back to JREF with your other sad little peeps. Attempting to debunk a grandchild's abduction is past the pale, even for you.
edit on 17-11-2012 by Caver78 because: (no reason given)


MissKat1 glad you got him back safe and sound. Thank you for connecting a few dot's with the land-grab quietly going on, it's also quietly happening in other states as well.
edit on 17-11-2012 by Caver78 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 08:39 AM
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This Agenda 21 is a no joke situation. People are quietly being removed from the homes they OWN and being relocated within the boundries of the 25% of land we will be allowed to inhabit.
I had decided not to tell my grandsons story, out of respect for my sons wishes, and because I didnt want any negitve attention coming their way, but when I made the connection with the disappearances, the land grab and Agenda 21, I knew I had to speak up.

So, yes it was horrid what my grandbaby went through, but it is nothing compared to what is going to happen when the UN establishes their Agenda 21 in America. From what I understand Hilary signed these peace treaties that will give this power to the United Nations.

My question still remains, why do they want us out of our "Public" lands? What is really out there? Are they trying to protect us? Or, are they trying to protect ______ whoever/whatever is out there?

Please google "Defend Rural America" they have a wealth of info that connects to the Agenda 21 and the land grabs. This is one of those "I wasnt a jew so I did nothing" I wasnt a catholic so I did nothing, when they came for me there was no one left!!

Just FYI I am not connected to Defend Rural America or to David Paulides. There was a couple of posts where I think it was being implied that I was planted to drum up business for Mr Paulides.
I have only spoken with Mr Paulides for a short minute and I emailed him my grandsons conversation. Just so that it would be documented.



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 08:54 AM
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Yes turn over every rock because that robot granny might be hiding under one.
I dont know what occurred in those woods but I do know that children around that age do not have very vivid imaginations at all. That usually comes later around age 7 or so. Then you see all kinds of fabrications from them but 3 and 1/2 is still very young. The experiences of a three year old are very limited and what they will talk about is also limited to what they know in their world. You dont see detailed stories that are not true coming from them. If you do even that is limited as to experiences.
My point is that a 3 1/2 year old probably did not make this up. Now as to whether the child fell asleep and had a vivid dream that is certainly a possibility. A child in a stressfull situation such as being lost will often just curl up and go to sleep to escape the situation.
Was the baby awake when they found him under the bush. ( hint hint under a bush, a hidy hole, like he put himself there yes?)



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 08:56 AM
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reply to post by Xoanon
 


Shasta ? Is that where they make the soda ?






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