Restaurant Owner to Imposes Surcharge For Obamacare

reply to post by buddhasystem

Please look and research when health insurance premiums started to sky rocket.
Also, the Govt does have hands in it, as it stops many things by the Insurance companies that could save the consumer money.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


So, civilization is more Govt control, making decisions about my health care, along with higher taxes?
The same Govt that can't get the current or past social programs right?

No thanks. Sounds like Socialism to me.

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

 

So, civilization is more Govt control, making decisions about my health care, along with higher taxes?
The same Govt that can't get the current or past social programs right?

No thanks. Sounds like Socialism to me.

Every bit as socialistic as Fire Departments. Suit yourself, though.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


Not really. It is a better comparison to being as socialist as a swing set, or any other random object. There is nothing socialist about Obamacare. That is a war cry employed by narrow minded conservatives. Obamacare is mandated capitalism. It makes you think of socialism, but it never completes that mandate. Not all people will be insured. A large portion of folks will simply elect to pay the penalty (although they are clear that it isn't a tax).

No employers will be harmed. It will be the middle class that takes it in the keister with Obamacare. The middle class is the group that makes too much to qualify for Medicare, but not enough to pay out of pocket for insurance on their whole family.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


Oh good hell, really?
Those are protective services, and are most of the time privately owned and/or Corporations.

The only thing that is not as privatized is the police departments. But, that is not like socialized healthcare. Not by a long shot.
If it works for Canada, and you enjoy high taxes for your supposed free health care, by all means, stay there and keep it. I can only imagine what is next on your list, for the Govt to provide, as the world is a scary place and something else can now bankrupt a person.
You enjoy the false security offered, that is nice.
Here is my problem. With all the wonderful places that offer Govt run healthcare, why do you and others push for the US to be like you? Why not just press your Govt to allow more US citizens to become Canadian citizens, to enjoy all your Govt free stuff?
There is the major difference. I want America to be left alone, to be America as it was created.
You want to force your crap onto America.


reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

I never said 0bamacare was Socialism. It is just the Govt taking more control of the individuals life, all in the name of the "greater good".
They might as well say it is "for the children" as well.

0bamacare forces people to purchase health insurance. That is not a solution to people not having healthcare, as society should not pay for others medical or be forced to purchase something.
It is a true bastardization of our country.

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

 

Oh good hell, really?
Those are protective services, and are most of the time privately owned and/or Corporations.

Not here in the Great Pink North...they are municipal services paid for out of property taxes

The only thing that is not as privatized is the police departments. But, that is not like socialized healthcare. Not by a long shot.
If it works for Canada, and you enjoy high taxes for your supposed free health care, by all means, stay there and keep it.

Indeed, we will keep it. Even our current right wing regime won't touch that one

Here is my problem. With all the wonderful places that offer Govt run healthcare, why do you and others push for the US to be like you? Why not just press your Govt to allow more US citizens to become Canadian citizens, to enjoy all your Govt free stuff? There is the major difference. I want America to be left alone, to be America as it was created. You want to force your crap onto America.

You guys are cousins. I like the US and I like Americans. I just hear all this crap about the evils of universal health care and figure it's important to state that it can be done better. And nobody says it's free...it comes out of our 'high' taxes...that somehow allow us to maintain a standard of living equal to or higher than yours. My $32 cancer cure was the cost of parking at the oncology centre.

Its fantastic how some people openly display their ignorance here. Like when they speak of the "good old times" back in the 60s, wasnt the peak tax rate something like 91 percent back then? Didnt America have the new deal? Now Obama is ruining America for Ending tax breaks setting them at 37%?

How does the economy and taxes correlate anyway? Doesnt anybody see the correlation between an economy that hit the ground and record company profits? You beat profits out of the economy, if companies have large profits, by saving on things like wages and anything that goes towards people, people have less money in their pockets and in turn less to spend on products and services. If taxes had anything to do with everything, countries with a low tax rate had a crazy growth and those with a high taxation a slow growth. However there is no correlation between the 2.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

 

Well, at this point I would say that what Canada has would certainly be an upgrade to Obamacare. Obamacare doesn't do anything to reduce the shareholder profit. It just forces people to pay out of pocket for insurance that is at the exact same price: exorbitant

I do agree with your observation re: the price. I also agree with your statement that the Canadian model is vastly superior.

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

Please look and research when health insurance premiums started to sky rocket.
Also, the Govt does have hands in it, as it stops many things by the Insurance companies that could save the consumer money.

I don't know what the Insurance Companies do to "save the consumer money" but they appear to fail miserably. One thing I know they maintain a huge bureaucracy which is paid by my money in the end, that's no better than the Govt as far as I can tell. Just pain the the proverbial to get the bills straight and I still think that charging $33,000 for a VERY normal delivery by C-section (prescribed) is NOT normal.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Not here in the Great Pink North...they are municipal services paid for out of property taxes

Ok, good for you. SO, more Govt workers, that sounds terrific.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuckIndeed, we will keep it. Even our current right wing regime won't touch that one

Ok again.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuckYou guys are cousins. I like the US and I like Americans. I just hear all this crap about the evils of universal health care and figure it's important to state that it can be done better. And nobody says it's free...it comes out of our 'high' taxes...that somehow allow us to maintain a standard of living equal to or higher than yours. My $32 cancer cure was the cost of parking at the oncology centre.

Geez, I don't have actual relatives that tell me what I should be doing in my life, let alone a neighboring country.
Yes, it can be done, by not only giving up freedoms, taking on more Govt control and incurring higher taxes.
My standard of living, I will bet lunch, is a lot better then yours. But, that is more than likely due to my hard work, not screwing around with debt and bills and being personally responsible.
My money would be better served not paying into the Ponzi scheme of SS, as I will never see it or be means tested out of it. So I am paying for other peoples retirement, which is not how it was created.
My money is better spent on my health care choices, not what the Govt tells me I have to purchase, or that they will take more to provide for others that are unwilling to be responsible, with a small portion not being able to take care of themselves, which I have no problem with paying for those that are not capable, and not for those that can't now because they planned poorly.
Just because someone gets cancer does not then make me financially liable for their debt and medical services. They should have planned accordingly in life.
And, before someone spouts off with the crap of "well, no one ever plans for cancer", I say BS. That is what savings and/or emergency funds are for.
If you have a job that does not offer health insurance, instead of pissing and moaning about it, why not do what you need to in life to get a job that does. Oh yea, I forgot, the Govt wants people to believe that everyone else should pay for it, instead of the person being held responsible for their life, actions, choices and outcome.

reply to post by macman
Well, then...we'll just have to agree to disagree. Seems I live a lot less bitter life than you, though. That is a health issue as well eh?

I really dont understand why people get so worked up on the IDEA of paying jointly for healthcare or social aids (cause it is just an idea here, obamacare is nothing like that in reality), and yet seem to be perfectly fine with the trillions of dollars our government hands out to banks, to walmart, to oil or pharma corp. They dont get nearly worked up about massive trillions going to those that dont need it, and yet they cant stand to see people who might need it get a hand. I REALLY dont understand why most americans seem to have NO PROBLEM AT ALL with the massive percentage of their hard earned taxes going to killing people in other countries. We go over there, risk life and limb, hundreds of billions are taken from the taxes to pay for it, and then the corporations get to go over there and steal their resources for corp profit. And yet very little complaint. Its never even brought up, or rarely, to take money from defense, or corporate subsidy and use THAT to help educate or medicate. Strange how most americans are so in support of corporate profit and war, but cant stand to see poor people, created by that corporate system and the wars, get a break. Veterans are the largest group of homeless. dont forget.

Originally posted by pexx421
I really dont understand why people get so worked up on the IDEA of paying jointly for healthcare or social aids (cause it is just an idea here, obamacare is nothing like that in reality), and yet seem to be perfectly fine with the trillions of dollars our government hands out to banks, to walmart, to oil or pharma corp.

I usually avoid posting anything like that, but your direct question begs a direct answer, and here is mine:

that's because the right wing is succeeding in making people even more stupid than they naturally are. The fact that Glenn Beck is gainfully employed is an undeniable evidence of the sad state of affairs with regards to critical thinking and cognitive abilities in general, in this country. He has a following, you see. This following are a bunch of morons.

People can argue ad infinitum and proclaim their willingness to die in order to protect the Second Amendment. Frankly, these morons tick me off. Not because I think that the 2nd is not important or that we shouldn't have it, but people, let's get our priorities straight. The system is rigged, the future of your children is in jeopardy because the healthcare and education are increasingly out of reach for so many Americans, and you worry about your stupid toys? Yeah and well, of course gay marriage is more important than common sense and being able to re-create the infrastructure in this country, which really starts to lag.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


Not really. I am just tired of others leeching off my success, hard work and good decisions. And then turn around crying because they don't have what I and my family do, and want me to give up more so they have more.

You seem to be fine with this sort of life, good for you.
I am not. I am not bitter, just tired of carrying the weight for others that made poor decisions in life.

reply to post by buddhasystem


Look to portability and Govt mandated items that a Health insurance company has to cover.

The Govt hand always increases costs, on the back of those that need help.

For the Children, right?

reply to post by macman


while I generally agree with you about Obamacare being a travesty of liberty, I must point out that the US has loads of "government workers" that it could relocate into providing better healthcare. How many soldiers do we have in active duty right now? Compare that (and defense spending) to what Canada has, and you can see that there isn't a lot of comparison.

We spend money on killing other people. They spend money on saving their own people. Seems pretty obvious where the real problem is here.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


I agree with the spent money.
But, diverting funds within the Tyrannical Govt from War to Welfare, is not just either.
All portions need to be cut, and run not as how the Govt has run things. You know, in the red, morons on top of morons in charge and so on.
If they were run with the same idea as a business, where you can't just turn to a entity to print you more money or tax people to cover rising overhead, then they would function correctly.

reply to post by macman



Well, i am looking for "better", not "perfect".

I was reading that the CEO of Honeywell (a major room nights purchaser in the local hotel market) was saying that he is hesitant to hire new employees because of overall and general governmental incompetence. He has no faith in our ability to govern our nation right now, and it effects the way he manages his business. Now, I realize this is likely a political jab at Obama by a major oil support company.

But he has a point, as well. We hear a lot of talk about faith in the economy. But it isn't really that, as the economy isn't really as bad as most older folks have seen it (im only 40 and have seen it far, far worse in my lifetime. Its our government. When was the last time we saw two presidential candidates that both were worthy of a vote?

And it is what you are talking about here: you have no faith in your government. I think that is the general consensus right now.

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by FreebirdGirl


Read much?

A 24-year-old Cincinnati father died from a tooth infection this week because he couldn't afford his medication, offering a sobering reminder of the importance of oral health and the number of people without access to dental or health care.

abcnews.go.com...

He could have gone to the emergency room to receive care. His dumb choice.

Originally posted by FreebirdGirl

"I honestly don't know how much more I can endure," Elder wrote earlier this year in a Facebook message to her friend Liz Jacobs. "I am fighting for (Medicaid) and disability. I can't work I sit in bed I cry a lot. I am still fighting for healthcare and still fighting foreclosure.

As she typed the note, Elder could scarcely breathe. Her lungs had filled with fluid over several months; her respiratory system was shutting down. After visits to the emergency room and several free clinics, Elder was finally diagnosed with Hodgkin's lymphoma.

But what makes her family bristle: Elder did not have to die.

If she had had health care, "Absolutely she'd still be here," said Jacquelyn Elder, Leslie's daughter, adding that Hodgkin's lymphoma has a high survival rate. "That is something really hard to deal with."

www.cnn.com...

SO that means what?
She is sick with lymphoma, and can still get treated at the emergency room and free clinic.




[

Originally posted by FreebirdGirl

“No, you go to the hospital, you get treated, you get care, and it’s paid for, either by charity, the government or by the hospital. We don’t have people that become ill, who die in their apartment because they don’t have insurance.”

Emergency rooms serve as a place of last resort, but 45,000 Americans still die every year because they lack health insurance, or one every 12 minutes. Uninsured adults under age 65 are also at a 40 percent higher death risk. Hospitals may treat patients for emergency medical conditions regardless of legal status or ability to pay, but patients with chronic conditions that don’t require emergency interference are often unable to access needed care.

thinkprogress.org...

And yet they still get treated and are not denied care.
They make the choice not to seek services, because the don't have health insurance.

Originally posted by FreebirdGirl

Lack Of Health Insurance Killed More Than 26,000 In 2010:

www.huffingtonpost.com...

And this article as well, states that people without insurance delay or defer care.


The Hospitals don't turn people away.
They treat people with or without insurance.

Oh, and think progress as a viable source? George Soros anyone??


Yeah, same crap, maybe you should also watch and parade as truth John Q.

Obviously you read didn't the articles. My bad I should know your m.o. by now. Have you ever went to the emergency room? The emergency room will treat the initial injury but will not
provide follow up care. In the case of the guy who died. He did go to the emergency room. He could not afford the prescription. So he died. Ms. Elder ( Hodkins) went to the free clinic and was waiting for the approval process for Medicaid (read the article) when she died. You seem to believe that the emergency room is a cure all. If you went to the emergency room with cancer and if your cancer was not immediately threatening your life. You will be advised to follow up with a doctor. That is when the lack of insurance comes in. Free clinics do not provide specialists only general practioners. The hospital might write you a prescription but you will have to pay for the medicine. To further dilute your weak argument most hospital are requiring you to pay your co pay or $150.00 upfront for non life threatening visits.If you were interested in the actual truth, you could have found information from many sources. However you are resolved to your rants and lack of compassion. You appear very bitter for someone who claims to have so much.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

Oh, I have faith in the Govt.
I have faith that it will continue to grow, siphon money from people like myself and others and will continue to do what it wants, because the masses are getting free stuff.

That is my extent in faith though, in the Govt.