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Restaurant Owner to Imposes Surcharge For Obamacare

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posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 01:51 AM
I understand that you need to raise prices in order to be able to pay for the healthcare thing. Fine. Whatever. But do you trot out a surcharge every time your suppliers raises prices? Have you given out a surcharge for the ridiculous rise in fuel we've experienced over the last ten or fifteen years?

I seriously doubt it. Then why do you feel the need to do this? Other than to make some political spectacle and be a passive aggressive coward over a policy decision that you don't like?

There really is no reason to do this other than to stage a passive aggressive political protest. At whose expense? Yeah, his workers. The sad thing is that many of them probably voted for Romney.
edit on 16-11-2012 by AnIntellectualRedneck because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 01:57 AM
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

up to 500 posts per month from you and I can't find one that isn't beating the dead horse...Get a new agenda

Nanny state! Nanny State...yada yada yada...I don't care for the guy or his ideas all that much either and was compelled to tell YOU to just let it go fellow American. Pay the extra lousy 50 cents for your eggies!!

edit on 16-11-2012 by MidnightSunshine because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 02:06 AM

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by Erectus

Also the Unions got waivers. something to think about, the average business owner didn't get a waiver. Something really wrong here. If Obamacare was so great why did all the Unions jump to get waivers? I thought these socialist wanted it?

And if you think business is slow now, just wait till this all really gets going. It is going to bring business to a slower crawl than it already is. It is not a fix for the economy or health.

Also inflation is going to spiral out of control, raising costss of verything even more.

edit on 16-11-2012 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

That's one of the things I actually hate about Obama care. The waivers. That makes no sense to me except as a political gift to his voting block. I'm also not really sure what the gift was either, though. Don't union employees already have great insurance? What is this waiver waiving?

I'm not going to defend Obama care. I'm just not willing to wholly condemn it yet. Everything I've read on here is actually way too simplistic to even start to quantify the ultimate outcome. It isn't just about those things that will cost us more, but also about things that may cost less. And though some may have a little less to spend others may end up with a little more now that they have insurance instead of $40k in doctors bills getting garnished out of their checks. So the net impact on consumer spending is complicated. Ultimately, if healthcare costs decrease or even slow in their rise then the program should be something of a success so long as quality of care isn't decreased as a whole. I can't imagine quality of care dropping over all if millions more are insured.

My family is insured, but when my wife and I were young we were not. Once my wife got very sick and the experiences we had with the hospital and doctors was just aweful. Now that we are insured it's like they roll the red carpet out for us. Every test they can dream of as useful gets done. So I can appreciate what it is like to get ill and not have insurance. It isn't fun.

And is it really all that much to expect insurance if you work? I know everybody likes to mention the small business owner getting hit hard, but that's not as common as some would have us believe. The small business owners I know have a half dozen employees and make a hundred grand a year or less (thus they get waivers). The small business owners that some people like to trot out as examples have a hundred employees and make $500k a year or more. Look at all the corporations who earn hundreds of millions in profit a year off the backs of screwed over low wage workers with no benefits. Have you ever considered that these corporations are making their sick profits through corporate welfare? How so? Well, when they get to earn higher than reasonable profits by paying their employees lower than reasonable wages they stick their employees in the food stamp and welfare class. So society buys the food and pays the healthcare (medicaid) of working people so their employers can make, not a decent profit, but an absurd profit. I have little sympathy for much of corporate america. Why should I? They prey on us in many ways.
edit on 16-11-2012 by Erectus because: spelling

posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 02:10 AM

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by Grimpachi

You are saying you will take your business elsewhere. Because some news media said this guy is a jerk for adding a surcharge to pay for the healthcare you say you won't patronize his restaurants. It can only be for one reason, that you support Obamacare but you don't want to pay for what you voted for, you expect everyone to pay for it. If this guy is doing it, so will everyone. You can whine about how he is evil for making a statement, but it's going to happen anyway. Everyone will do this. When everyone does this, you will have only yourself and the rest of the Obama voters to blame.

I said I am not eating there. I will take my business somewhere else. Free market and all. Hopefully other people will as well and when business picks up in other restaurants they will hire more people. Free market at work.

Well, it's not entirely free market because govt forced him to pay for something. Voting has consequences and you asked for it.

The very post you are quoting from you have to cut off to make it look like something else. That is what you are reduced to. It’s no wonder Obama won the other side had geniuses like you running things.

So you read into my post ignoring the actual reason I gave and gave your own reasoning to it. Great job please put on the dunce cap now. And you never answered my question. Where did I make it about the price. You can twist, cut, copy, and paste all you want but someone with a 4th grade education knows I never made it about price so that says a lot about you.

You even ignored the part where I said.

Nope I never said that. I said I am not eating there. I will take my business somewhere else. Free market and all. Hopefully other people will as well and when business picks up in other restaurants they will hire more people. Free market at work. The server who decides to stay at a place that isn’t doing much business has made a poor choice of where to work in my opinion. I guess it could be a place to learn the ropes though.

See same money is being spent it is just being spent somewhere else. Try not reading into other people’s posts too much.

If he is going to rewrite the menu then yes just change the price but the way he is doing it will hurt the employee’s tips. He is just being an @ hole.

See you are reading into things again. Nowhere did I say it was about saving money. I said the guy is an @ hole. If you support @ holes great for you as for myself if I don’t have to I will not.

If you think the guy is just being upfront I would have to disagree there. I think he is making a statement and if he is not trying to do so then it makes me wonder how he has stayed in business for this long because to most people that is how it looks. If he isn’t purposely being a @ hole then he is an idiot as far as presentation. Him being in the food industry he should understand how much presentation counts and just because it is a Denny’s is no excuse for not understanding basics.

I see a guy playing politics through a surcharge which in my opinion will hurt the employees which causes me to take my business somewhere I do not consider the owner to be a complete @hole which if enough people do the same it will only hurt the owner of the 20 something chains which you call a few.

The money gets spent just elsewhere and the employment will follow the money. If you think this is anything other than a vindictive political statement on the owner’s part I suggest you are fooling yourself.

Employment will follow the customer and it’s the owners fault for driving the customer elsewhere because he wants to play politics. He could have simply raised prices and no one would care instead he had to be an @ hole.

posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 02:16 AM
reply to post by Erectus

I think the Unions get waivers because their insurance goes above and beyond Obamacare at least it did 10 years ago when I was in one. It isn’t that they do not have healthcare it is that theirs is better.

posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 02:18 AM

Originally posted by FreebirdGirl
.When the financially comfortable demand sacrifices from people who are already experiencing hardship yet do not make sacrifices themselves it is wrong and counter productive for the growth of a country.

You know I replied to you already, but a couple things stand out here that I missed. I do not demand sacrafices of anyone. And it should not be demanded of me to make a sacrafice for anyone else. This is the land of the free. And if there is anyone I will make a sacrafice for, it will be for family. Since family comes first. I will give money to who ever I so choose. And not who my government tells me I should. If you want someone to be forced to toil for you then you need to a weild a hammer and a sickle. Go ahead raise the flag on your wee bit of land.

posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 02:28 AM
reply to post by AnIntellectualRedneck

But do you trot out a surcharge every time your suppliers raises prices?

Everything will go up in price due to the inflation of govt spending. If a restaurant owner is raising his prices to pay for emplyees healthcare, likely other businesses will do the same. It is going to be disaster.

posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 02:34 AM

Originally posted by Grimpachi
reply to post by Erectus

I think the Unions get waivers because their insurance goes above and beyond Obamacare at least it did 10 years ago when I was in one. It isn’t that they do not have healthcare it is that theirs is better.

The Unions get waivers because they were special interests of Obama.

Not surprisingly, it helps to be a Democratic ally when seeking a waiver. The Republican Policy Committee reports that over half of the workers that have been exempted so far belong to unions:
The plans newly approved for waivers cover more than 160,000 people, bringing to nearly 3.1 million the number of individuals in plans exempted from the health law’s requirements. Of the participants receiving waivers, more than half – over 1.55 million – are in union plans, raising questions of why such a disproportionate share of union members are receiving waivers from the law’s requirements. The percentage of participants receiving waivers that come from unions also continues to rise – the number was 48% in April, and 45% in March.

Unions already received a generous concession in the health care bill. Their generous "cadilac" insurance plans were exempted from being taxed until 2018, adding about $120 billion to the bill’s cost over ten years. For more on how the administration has helped unions, see my story in THE WEEKLY STANDARD from a few weeks ago.

posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 02:44 AM
reply to post by Grimpachi

I didn't cut anything off to look like anything. It's the liberals who do stuff like that, like how the liberal media spliced up Dick Morris' statement on why he told Republicans he thought Romney could win in a landslide.

I mainly cut it off to save space and not just repost everything. I'm not too sure that it made a real difference. What you said is what you said. You think the guy is evil for making it political and you said you won't pay the extra amount and you won't patronize his restaurants. But why is the guy evil for announcing why he had to raise prices? It is what it is, and Obamacare is the reason. Like it or not, that is what we got from a socialist Congress.
The Tea Party opposed it and were vilified in the media and by people like Nancy Pelosi and by liberals. I have a right to say I don't want to pay a surcharge for Obamacare because I opposed it from the start, but to me if anyone supports Obamacare then let them dig in their pockets to pay for it.

In the end, everyone will be charging more for stuff to pay for it, and you will have no choice in the matter. Like someone else said, either business people will be upfront about the higher cost or it will masquerade as just being a higher cost due to inflation. Of course that is what the Fed bankers and the govt want. They don't want us to realize we are paying more for stuff because of their spending habits. It comes as a hidden tax through inflation because the value of the dollar goes down.

edit on 16-11-2012 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 02:57 AM

Originally posted by CrisMajor
reply to post by Krazysh0t

Yeah, by adding the surcharge, he was definitely politicizing the issue
But maybe he SHOULD have done it. People hear obamacare and they think "OH SWEET, I GET MEDICARE WITHOUT PAYING W00T W00T"
Nah man, ever hear the phrase "There's no such thing as a free puppy"?
Same thing with universal healthcare.
edit on 15-11-2012 by CrisMajor because: damn typos...

Obama care was never about "free health care". It was about removing the possibility from the guy who asks for rent to suggest you do without health care, so you can meet his demands for rent. It was about getting those who turned a profit out of labor to chip in, when they were not willing to pay salaries that allowed their employees to get any kind of coverage and offshored their profits so medicaid wouldnt see those dollars either.

Maybe if unions wouldnt have been squashed and workers could have negotiated on an equal footing instead of being told, if you dont work for minimum wage I will just get somebody else to do it, to maximize my profits and screw you, all this wouldnt have been necessarry, to put Americas average life expectation on equal footing with Cuba.

posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 03:07 AM
For anyone who cares enough to know the reasoning behind the waivers it is explained here on Politifact.

It is in no way nefarious.

To be clear, though, the waivers do not exempt these groups from the health care law. They only allow them to continue offering their current health plans with annual limits until 2014.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

If you want to know the reason why I will not patronize his establishments it is the third paragraph down in the quoted section of my post that is five posts above yours and it is not as you originally stated about the cost. I have made it very clear throughout the thread my reasoning yet you continue to either ignore or just cannot comprehend but I see no reason to restate for a third or fourth time the same thing. If you do not get it by now I doubt you ever will.

posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 03:11 AM

Originally posted by Crakeur
It's a smart tactic in the sense that he's going to raise the prices to cover the cost of Obamacare but he's going to do it in a manner that makes Obama, and his plan, the enemy, not him.

It's a moronic tactic because there will be many people who won't eat at his restaurants as a result and, more important, if obamacare is overhauled, or reversed, in later years, he will be forced to remove the surcharge whereas, if he just raised his prices, he wouldn't have the same need to remove the obamacare increases as the customers won't know the primary reason for the increase in the first place.

Good points. You shone a light on the fact that it's bad business to put your personal feeling into business decisions, like the political angle he took.

If I were him, if each restaurant has 20 employees, let the one go who is the biggest underachiever, every business has one, and whatever the responsibilities of that one person was, distribute those amongst the other 19. With the money he's saving by not paying the underachiever, he can raise the pay accordingly for the other 19 for the added responsibilities they have, but not so much to where he still realizes the 5% gain he was shooting for by adding the surcharge. Everybody wins.

It's just another version of creative financing and, most importantly, you're not raising your prices. Like another poster pointed out, the dumbest thing a business owner can do is upset the customer.

edit on 16-11-2012 by Taupin Desciple because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 03:13 AM
reply to post by Grimpachi

I already read three or so times now. You think the guy is evil for politicizing it. Again, I asked what you will do when everybody raises their prices and calls it a surcharge for Obamacare? Will you gripe that all businesspeople are greedy capitalist pigs because they are making you pay for their employee's healthcare when it was likely you who supported the legislation?

Just tell me you didn't support Obamacare and I will say no more to you.
edit on 16-11-2012 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 03:24 AM
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

As far as I am concerned you are absolutely clueless even with my point blank statements that it isn’t about cost right in front of you. I mean really how many times does a person have to state the same thing until It gets through to you.

Just for giggles I will say it again and I am paraphrasing here.

The guy is an @ hole because the way he is doing this will hurt his employees tips because he is trying to make a statement. I will take my business elsewhere and business will follow that means jobs will follow.

Please do not ask any questions because that is as simple as I care to make it.

I do not really care what you think of Obamacare or of those who support or do not support it. I replied to this thread because of how I see this owner conducting his business not about how I feel about Obamacare that is another thread.

posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 03:34 AM
reply to post by Grimpachi

The guy is an @ hole because the way he is doing this will hurt his employees tips because he is trying to make a statement. I will take my business elsewhere and business will follow that means jobs will follow.

So you want everyone to think he is just raising the cost to make a bigger profit or because of inflation when the exact cause of it is forced govt law, and so you are going to be the righteous one and say he is hurting his employees instead of taking the hit in his profit margin, and when people show you that he has to do it to stay afloat you insist this is all about his attitude and not about the core reason which is Obamacare. I am telling you, and others here too, that before long this will be the norm because everyone is in the same boat.
It seems to me the end result here is you are excusing Obamacare and being angry at people who have to do these things to stay afloat.
Do you think he wants to pass on the cost to customers and lose his customer base? Like others here said, when the customer base is gone, the employees will be out of a job.

Again, we come to you want someone to pay for it, but you won't do it yourself as a customer. I just would like you to acknowledge that Obamacare is the reason and not because he's a greedy evil guy, because when the guy down the street raises his cost and he doesn't explain it was due to Obamacare will you think oh this guy is really great he is paying for his employees healthcare I think I will enjoy paying the higher cost and by golly I will pay higher tips too...yah right! I bet you think that guy is ripping you off too because he is an evil greedy capitalist.
edit on 16-11-2012 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 03:54 AM
reply to post by Grimpachi

I do not really care what you think of Obamacare or of those who support or do not support it. I replied to this thread because of how I see this owner conducting his business not about how I feel about Obamacare that is another thread.

But Obamacare is the base reason for the surcharge, therefore Obamacare being the root cause of it, it is not off topic and yes I think it is important. You think this guy is mean because he is making a statement about it,and all of a sudden now it's a subject for another thread, and yet it seems to be ok for the Democrats to politicize women's contraception on their party platform.
You simply do not want to hear that your choice of political agenda has consequences, that being that higher costs accrue due to the legislation that has real effects on real people. Instead you want to whine that people who make statements about why they had to raise costs are evil and you won't go there now because you are morally better than them. Instead, why don't you just pull the extra change out your pockets and support these needy people who deserve so much to have someone pay for their health insurance. That is what liberals voted for and that's what we are all getting.

I think it's better people know why costs are rising.

posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 04:03 AM
reply to post by windword

So there I was this afternoon, a few minutes to kill during an incubation step in my experiment and in my inbox was a direction to check out this thread. It was from someone who knows me well enough to know that I spent 10 years waiting tables before this second career of mine, that my boyfriend has also been in the food service industry for over a decade AND that my mom had been a waitress for over 30 years. She knew this would really bug me. And it did! But then my timer went off and it was back to the grind. I was meaning to come back and comment much earlier, but my work"day" (which stretched into the night) got away from me. As I began typing this, there were already 19 pages! Alas, too many to read. So please forgive me if someone has already iterated/addressed my comments.

I'm not going to even bother discussing whether servers are charity cases and should receive more or less tips so that they AND EVERYONE ELSE IN THE COMPANY can be offered health care coverage - that's a stupid, pointless argument. When you make your living doing a highly skilled job that severely underpays your wages in exchange for a system that forces you to relies upon the "generosity" of others, then you get it. And if you don't have the ability to empathize, then I don't have the ability to make you empathize.

I'm also not going to argue about whether restaurants and restaurant owners deserve to make a profit or should take a little less in order to pay for health coverage for their employees. Because I don't have to. BECAUSE THAT IS NOT REQUIRED BY OBAMACARE (also known as the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, or PPACA).

Sadly, I think many, many, many of you are going to be quite disappointed when in 2014 (yeah, cuz that's when this part of the law actually goes into effect - IN 13 MONTHS FROM NOW) your jobs offer you at best coverage that you will pay for entirely. Not them. You.

It is misconception that your employer will be required to pay any part of your premium. First of all, if, and only if, a company employs 50 people or more, then it must OFFER a plan or coverage. The employee can be asked to pay for the entirety of the plan. If the cheapest plan possible is more than 8% of the employee's income, then the employee wont be compelled to purchase it, cannot be taxed/fined for not purchasing it and in fact will be offered a tax credit if that employee still decides to purchase it. If the cheapest plan possible is more than 9.5% of the employee's earnings, then the employer is penalized BUT NOT FOR THE FIRST 30 PEOPLE IT SCREWS OVER. The company gets a pass on the fine for the first 30 people. Every person after that though for whom the cheapest plan possible would cost the employee more than 9.5% of their income, then the company is fined.

Which brings me back to the present and the reality of restaurants. In my experience (and I'm sure the experience of most of my friends and family still in the restaurant biz), restaurants rarely offer insurance to servers, much less to dishwashers and other back of the house people. My boyfriend works as the controller for a company that manages 8 bars and restaurants and his company used to be very much the same. Only managers and officers (like vice president, etc) were offered insurance, and even then, the employee paid half of their premiums and all of any additional cost family members added.

In the insurance biz, offering insurance to managers only is called Manager Carve-out and it results in a penalty to the company. In fact, their premiums are higher than if they offered insurance to everyone. So my boyfriend, being the controller (which sounds like a wonderful, god-like job, but really means he's the guy that is expected to know all about the money in/money out, financial reports, and even analyzing profit/loss reports) realized he could actually SAVE the company money if they offered insurance to everyone. After much research, they found three different plans with more or less coverage for more or less money - the employees voted on the cheapest one with the least coverage, especially since they were going to have to pay the entire premium.

So how much did that cost the company? How much of a hit is the owner taking in his own pocket? NOTHING. Well, a few days worth of research and speaking to insurance brokers. And, it actually brought down the cost of premiums for the managers and officers in the company even though they are on a different (better coverage but more expensive) plan.

So I think it's bullshido that this restaurant owner wants to add a 5% surcharge just in case he has to pay something out of pocket when the likelihood is that he (like my boyfriend's boss - come on, all millionaires are the same) will pass the entire bill on to the employees anyway.

posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 04:21 AM
reply to post by windword

(Sorry, I ran out of characters)

Well then what are the employees paying? Between $70-90 per month for single people. $90 per month is 8% of $13,500 per year. And, $90 per month is 9.5% of $11,368. That means, assuming there is no change to insurance premiums (and I have read pretty interesting debates suggesting rates will either go up because insurance companies will now have to insure everyone even the sick or go down because there will be a very large pool of healthy young adults for whom little will have to be paid out), over 30 FULL TIME employees in a company of more than 50 FULL TIME employees will have to earn less than $11,368 and be offered a plan for more than $90 per month before an employer is penalized and that would be only if the employee agrees to purchase the plan, which the employee would not be compelled to because it would cost more than 8% of their income. Even then, the employer is only fined after the first 30 full time employees.

There are a lot of great places to read more about the actual law, but I liked what Kaiser offered:

Parts are a little dry, but all the info is there.

posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 04:59 AM

Originally posted by CALGARIAN

If I, or my daughter, worked at Denny's and this was passed off I'd immediately quit but not before speaking my mind.

Epitome of greed. The man owns 20 GODDAMN restaurants.

EVERYONE is going to have to chip in to make this a reality. I pay 30% of my gross pay to taxes, about 800$ every 2 weeks, but I don't complain. My brother just had massive brain surgery in Eastern Canada (free, btw) which would have cost 380k in the U.S, so I don't mind paying my cut.

But Calgarian, don't you see?

In Canada, you're given a bill for services rendered! Fair dinkum, right?

In Amerika, you're given a bill with a threat to pay or else.

posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 05:30 AM
reply to post by windword

This idiot will put himself out of business

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