Restaurant Owner to Imposes Surcharge For Obamacare

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posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 06:22 PM
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Some of you who post on this site have obviously never worked in the food service industry.

If this person has over 40 restaurants, he is doing something right. Yes he makes money but think about how many people he employs.

Now, along comes another government program. He has to put his employees into this program. Who should pay for this? He can pass the cost along to his customers. He could go out of business.

He just had the balls to put it in the face of the customers.

That wouldn't change the amount of tip I leave.




posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 06:23 PM
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Originally posted by elouina

Originally posted by TheAngryFarm

Originally posted by Thepump

Giving everyone access to a doctor is not evil, it is right.

Murderers and POWs get better treatment


It certainly is not a right. You cannot force others to pay for your right. You cannot place someone (in this case a doctor) in servitude in order to fulfill this perceived "right"

If you truly believe this is a right, then you must also believe the government should provide firearms to every citizen as well correct?



Exactly! When forced to buy car insurance, who pays for it? Should we make this a right also? Hey everyone!!! Free phones, free car insurance and free medical insurance! Whoop!! Whoop!!!


So you are okay with saying that you:

are from the richest country in the world
have the strongest military in the world
are a Christian nation
and 10% of the population can die if they can not afford health insurance

Is that right?



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 06:23 PM
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Originally posted by Daedal
I recently accepted a promotion in management at a restaurant I won't name but, knowing beforehand about the ACA and it's possible side effects on regular crew members, was a defining reason I accepted the promotion, and this was about a month ago.

Today the GM told us that beginning next month the crew will be cut down to five people in the morning from the seven we are currently at, and also mentioned the cut back in work hours including no overtime.

The screws are tightening...



The affects of Obama care will not be "trickling down", they will be slam dunking the poor. I am not poor, but I am terribly saddened that they don't realize that this will be a double edged sword. I truely don't want to see them suffer.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 06:26 PM
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I live in California.

Before Obamacare, you could go to any county hospital and get treatment for free.

Maybe it will be better now but someone always has to pay.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 06:28 PM
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reply to post by windword
 


I too saw this story in the news today. I'll just bet that restaurant owner has great healthcare insurance.

My wife & I have decided to stop in, every time we see a Denny's or Dairy Queen, just to privately tip a waitress. Actually, we'll call it a healthcare gift, that way it doesn't have to be shared with their employer as it was not for services rendered while under his employ.

Then we're going to eat somewhere else.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 06:28 PM
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Originally posted by FreebirdGirl


You must work for a small establishment. Most servers and bartenders tips are claimed based on sales. With most POS systems the server/bartender's sales generate the minimal amount the tipped employee will have to pay in income tax. The only tips they would be allowed to hide would be cash tips as credit card tips are already calculated.


Not small, but not huge either. Slow nights average around 1k in sales, busy nights between 3-4k. Super busy nights we will top 5k.


Here is a metaphor....

What does a computer hacker do? They study a system, find the weakness, exploit it to their advantage.

Study the tax code (system), especially in regards to tips(weakness), pay no income tax (exploitation).

It would be extremely naive to think every server, bartender, etc etc is paying all taxes they "should" be, even in regards to 8% of sales.
edit on 15-11-2012 by TheAngryFarm because: (trade secrets deleted)
edit on 15-11-2012 by TheAngryFarm because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 06:31 PM
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Originally posted by FreebirdGirl


are from the richest country in the world
have the strongest military in the world
are a Christian nation
and 10% of the population can die if they can not afford health insurance

Is that right?


No one is preventing them from getting health insurance. That is the responsibility of the individual, not government.

FYI, we are not a christian nation.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 06:31 PM
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Originally posted by Crakeur
It's a moronic tactic because there will be many people who won't eat at his restaurants as a result


I agree, this makes him look a cheapskate. Five % is not a big deal but I'd still feel like I'm being nickel and dimed.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 06:34 PM
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Originally posted by Wildbob77
I live in California.

Before Obamacare, you could go to any county hospital and get treatment for free.

Maybe it will be better now but someone always has to pay.


You sure about that?

If I were you - - I'd read the "fine print".



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 06:37 PM
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Originally posted by FreebirdGirl

Originally posted by elouina

Originally posted by TheAngryFarm

Originally posted by Thepump

Giving everyone access to a doctor is not evil, it is right.

Murderers and POWs get better treatment


It certainly is not a right. You cannot force others to pay for your right. You cannot place someone (in this case a doctor) in servitude in order to fulfill this perceived "right"

If you truly believe this is a right, then you must also believe the government should provide firearms to every citizen as well correct?



Exactly! When forced to buy car insurance, who pays for it? Should we make this a right also? Hey everyone!!! Free phones, free car insurance and free medical insurance! Whoop!! Whoop!!!


So you are okay with saying that you:

are from the richest country in the world
have the strongest military in the world
are a Christian nation
and 10% of the population can die if they can not afford health insurance

Is that right?


There is a right way, and there is a right time for everything. You don't take a country that is tittering on economic collapse and add more strain. Instead of rushing it through, this needed much more thought. Perhaps a panel of educated citizens from all strains of life could have been created. Accountants, attorneys, teachers etc... Then an analysis would have to be performed on the impact of their idea. If problematic, then go back and adjust things a bit. We are talking multiple years of effort. Once it was completed, then it would be placed on ballot for the US citizens to vote on. Since it is against our constitution.

But still, this is a capitalistic country. If folks want socialism they can very easily move to a socialist country. Socialists pay nearly 40% of their income in taxes.
edit on 15-11-2012 by elouina because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 06:38 PM
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Originally posted by TheAngryFarm
No one is preventing them from getting health insurance.


No one is preventing me from getting a stretch limo stocked with champagne, and studded with diamonds on the outside. Just to get to work. Somehow, I don't see that ride on my driveway.

When it's come to health (and health is more valuable than anything, really), it's prone to extortion. Then can charge you whatever they want. A surgery can cost more than entire life savings, and it's not an exceptional surgery of any kind, just a fairly common procedure. One poster quoted $380k for surgery his brother underwent, I have a friend who also was lucky to live in Canada, and his father got a transplant that would have cost him about same amount of money in the US. When it comes to simpler things it still costs a lot. A C-section will set you back $30k, I know because that was our bill. Is that normal? Why does a doctor bill $250 for a visit that take 15 min of his time?



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 06:39 PM
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Originally posted by elouina
If folks want socialism they can very easily move to a socialist country. Socialists pay nearly 40% of their income in taxes.


Like many others, I pay at least 30%, so it's not a universe of difference. If I knew we could have public healthcare in the US, I would gladly pay 10% more.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 06:40 PM
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reply to post by TheAngryFarm
 


Income tax is federal and regulated state to state. The IRS will audit your entire establishment if even one server or bartender improperly reports their tips, and the general manager or corporate auditor will flag you and have a "sit down" with you about it before the IRS even gets wind of it, if you work for any kind of "legit" company.

I've was in the industry for 35 years and have seen 2 rather large establishments and all their employees audited because of inappropriate gratuity reporting.

You may think that you have enough cash stashed away to beat the system and stay off the grid. But you or a loved one may fall ill, and I can guarantee you, you don't have enough cash to cover a round of chemo, or a major surgery.


edit on 15-11-2012 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 06:43 PM
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Originally posted by buddhasystem


When it's come to health (and health is more valuable than anything, really), it's prone to extortion. Then can charge you whatever they want. A surgery can cost more than entire life savings, and it's not an exceptional surgery of any kind, just a fairly common procedure. One poster quoted $380k for surgery his brother underwent, I have a friend who also was lucky to live in Canada, and his father got a transplant that would have cost him about same amount of money in the US. When it comes to simpler things it still costs a lot. A C-section will set you back $30k, I know because that was our bill. Is that normal? Why does a doctor bill $250 for a visit that take 15 min of his time?



Probably because that doctor came out of med school close to 100 grand in debt, pays out the ass for malpractice insurance that has gone up exponentially due to lawyers and a litigious society.

Ever think that might be a good place to start in finding out why doctors charge so much?



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 06:45 PM
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Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by TheAngryFarm
No one is preventing them from getting health insurance.

When it comes to simpler things it still costs a lot. A C-section will set you back $30k, I know because that was our bill. Is that normal? Why does a doctor bill $250 for a visit that take 15 min of his time?



My doc charges $84 and gets $34 from the insurance company. So lets see what rationalizes that $34... $300,000 in med school debt. More years in school than some folks spend on a career. Working 36 hours straight as an intern... Having no free time, or a life.
edit on 15-11-2012 by elouina because: (no reason given)



Originally posted by TheAngryFarm

Probably because that doctor came out of med school close to 100 grand in debt, pays out the ass for malpractice insurance that has gone up exponentially due to lawyers and a litigious society.

Ever think that might be a good place to start in finding out why doctors charge so much?


I spent that to put my daughter through school to be a teacher. Try 3 times as much to be a doc!
edit on 15-11-2012 by elouina because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 06:47 PM
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Originally posted by windword

You may think that you have enough cash stashed away to beat the system and stay off the grid. But you or a loved one may fall ill, and I can guarantee you, you don't have enough cash to cover a round of chemo, or a major surgery.



I have health insurance that I pay for. Never said I didnt.

18 years in the industry, 15 of them as a bartender, not once have I ever came across any place and/or tipped employee being audited.

In the grand scheme of things, the IRS has much bigger fish to go after instead of expending who knows how many tens of thousands of dollars to find out a few servers didnt pay a few hundo in taxes.

In terms of bars, it is one of the easiest businesses to keep money off the books as well if the owner so chooses



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 06:48 PM
link   

Originally posted by elouina

Originally posted by FreebirdGirl

Originally posted by elouina

Originally posted by TheAngryFarm

Originally posted by Thepump

Giving everyone access to a doctor is not evil, it is right.

Murderers and POWs get better treatment


It certainly is not a right. You cannot force others to pay for your right. You cannot place someone (in this case a doctor) in servitude in order to fulfill this perceived "right"

If you truly believe this is a right, then you must also believe the government should provide firearms to every citizen as well correct?



Exactly! When forced to buy car insurance, who pays for it? Should we make this a right also? Hey everyone!!! Free phones, free car insurance and free medical insurance! Whoop!! Whoop!!!


So you are okay with saying that you:

are from the richest country in the world
have the strongest military in the world
are a Christian nation
and 10% of the population can die if they can not afford health insurance

Is that right?


There is a right way, and there is a right time for everything. You don't take a country that is tittering on economic collapse and add more strain. Instead of rushing it through, this needed much more thought. Perhaps a panel of educated citizens from all strains of life could have been created. Accountants, attorneys, teachers etc... Then an analysis would have to be performed on the impact of their idea. If problematic, then go back and adjust things a bit. We are talking multiple years of effort. Once it was completed, then it would be placed on ballot for the US citizens to vote on. Since it is against our constitution.

But still, this is a capitalistic country. If folks want socialism they can very easily move to a socialist country. Socialists pay nearly 40% of their income in taxes.
edit on 15-11-2012 by elouina because: (no reason given)


There is nothing capitalistic about companies getting bailouts and incentives from the government. Why is it only socialism when citizens receive help?



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 06:49 PM
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Originally posted by TheAngryFarm

Originally posted by FreebirdGirl


You must work for a small establishment. Most servers and bartenders tips are claimed based on sales. With most POS systems the server/bartender's sales generate the minimal amount the tipped employee will have to pay in income tax. The only tips they would be allowed to hide would be cash tips as credit card tips are already calculated.


Not small, but not huge either. Slow nights average around 1k in sales, busy nights between 3-4k. Super busy nights we will top 5k.


Here is a metaphor....

What does a computer hacker do? They study a system, find the weakness, exploit it to their advantage.

Study the tax code (system), especially in regards to tips(weakness), pay no income tax (exploitation).

It would be extremely naive to think every server, bartender, etc etc is paying all taxes they "should" be, even in regards to 8% of sales.
edit on 15-11-2012 by TheAngryFarm because: (trade secrets deleted)
edit on 15-11-2012 by TheAngryFarm because: (no reason given)


WOW! I bet you charge customers for drinks that you don't ring up too.

Look, if a customer hands you a 100 dollar bill, up and above your tip, put it in your pocket, sure. But the IRS will get their 8% tax on your sales. Like Mitt says, don't pay a penny MORE than you have to.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 06:52 PM
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Originally posted by TheAngryFarm

Originally posted by windword

You may think that you have enough cash stashed away to beat the system and stay off the grid. But you or a loved one may fall ill, and I can guarantee you, you don't have enough cash to cover a round of chemo, or a major surgery.



I have health insurance that I pay for. Never said I didnt.

18 years in the industry, 15 of them as a bartender, not once have I ever came across any place and/or tipped employee being audited.

In the grand scheme of things, the IRS has much bigger fish to go after instead of expending who knows how many tens of thousands of dollars to find out a few servers didnt pay a few hundo in taxes.

In terms of bars, it is one of the easiest businesses to keep money off the books as well if the owner so chooses


30 years in the business and when you do get audited everyone who works with you will hate you.
The first thing that will happen is all tips must be paid by paycheck. No one will be allowed to take home cash tips anymore. If you try to take home cash tips it will be considered theft. I've seen it happen. Keep rollin those dice.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 06:52 PM
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Originally posted by MrDesolate
What's the big deal? His business, his decision. People can frequent the establishment, or not. Let the market speak. Isn't that's how it's supposed to work?

He could also raise his prices 5% across the board, but he's using his establishment to make a statement. Nobody has to patronize him, nobody has to work for him. If it's a bonehead move, he'll suffer. I've got no problem with that.



This post says it best.

The guy is making a statement. You may or may not agree with him, his statement, or just his actions, but he is doing it with his business and no one else's.


Sure his statement might affect some of his employees in the loss of wages, but I doubt it will be much. I can say that I really do not look at the slip often enough. I do though have a general idea of what it should cost 5% would really not be that noticeable. I say I do not really look at the slip because my wife and I only go out on date night (when our son stays with grandma) which is not often enough that it really matters. Hell I am happy to pay a little bit extra to get time out with just my wife and I.


The result though will be that he will lose a few customers, and gain a few as well. Some of his help will move on as the food industry is always hiring, while others will come to work for him.

I do not think in the end there will be a huge hit on his or his helps finances. 5% is just not that noticeable in my opinion. Like I said I don't eat out often enough for 5% to bother me. If I ate out every week I would care but once every month or two is nothing. I might pay about $3 more on a bill. Depending on what the average plate cost is at his business the cost might only be about $.50. If 5% is going to cause some cheap jerk to short the tips on their server they should most likely stay at home anyway.

Raist





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