Is the USA Now Under God's Judgement?, page 6


Pages: <<  3    4    5    6    7    8    9  >>
ATS Members have flagged this thread 23 times


reply posted on 16-11-2012 @ 12:09 PM by truejew
Originally posted by ShakaDoodle
reply to post by DarthMuerte

it's clear that God's judgement has already begun.



God's judgement is not yet. However, God's wrath is soon to begin.


reply posted on 16-11-2012 @ 02:24 PM by defcon5
reply to post by DarthMuerte
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

The USA has never been on good terms with God, IMHO.
According to historicism, its the final 'Beast' mentioned in the book of Revelation.

It meets all the criteria of being that last beast:

1) It had two horns like a lamb: Starts out as a christian nation, has the appearance of a lamb.

2) but it spoke like a dragon: Becomes the most worldly nation on Earth and the final world superpower. Uses its might to bully other nations into line.

3) It exercised all the authority of the first beast on its behalf: The first beast being Rome. The US is based on the Roman Empire. Our laws are based on Justinian I's legal codex, we even have the same type of government: An Oligarchical Republic. There are thousands of simularities between the US and Rome, too many for me to recount here.

4) whose fatal wound had been healed: It comes into existence shortly before the Roman Catholic Chruch was removed from political power by General Berthier in 1798. Obviously we declared our independence in 1776. Even John Wesley had this figured out, and wrote about the second beast arising in his lifetime while writing his commentary of Revelation in 1760.

5) And it performed great signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to the earth in full view of the people: Been there, done that: Trinity

6) It ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived: We force other countries to accept our form of Democracy, Capitalist Oligarchical Republics, and to partake of our banking and financial system. If they refuse we invade them under the auspices of protecting them from Communism. Of course, just like the Roman Empire, this system is by the rich, for the rich, to exploit the rest as slave workers. To exploit their national resources, and be worldly in general. Last time I checked God is very much against folks being 'Worldly”...

7) It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads: We are in the process of doing this right now. Using UN biometric ICAO (used on E-Passports) facial recognition on all US ID cards. REAL ID: CONNECTING THE DOTS TO AN INTERNATIONAL ID

If you want to know how this was hidden from the common Christian, research into the purpose of the Council of Trent, the Protestant Counter Reformation, and Francisco Ribera:

Apocalypse commentary
In order to remove the papacy of the Catholic Church from consideration as the Antichrist (as an act of countering the Protestant Reformation), Ribera began writing a lengthy (500 page) commentary in 1585 on the Book of Revelation (Apocalypse) titled In Sacrum Beati Ioannis Apostoli, & Evangelistiae Apocalypsin Commentarij, proposing that the first few chapters of the Apocalypse apply to ancient pagan Rome, and the rest he limited to a yet future period of 3½ literal years, immediately prior to the second coming. During that time, the Roman Catholic Church would have fallen away from the pope into apostasy because of the Reformation cry stating that "the papacy is the seat of the true and real Antichrist." (Martin Luther, Aug. 18, 1520). Then, he proposed, the Antichrist, a single individual, would:
Persecute and blaspheme the saints of God.
Rebuild the temple in Jerusalem.
Abolish the Christian religion.
Deny Jesus Christ.
Be received by the Jews.
Pretend to be God.
Kill the two witnesses of God.
Conquer the world.
To accomplish this, Ribera proposed that the 1260 days and 42 months and 3½ times of prophecy were not 1260 years as based on the year-day principle (Numbers 14:34 and Ezekiel 4:6), but a literal 3½ years, hence preventing the arrival of the deduction of (i) the 1260 years to be related to the Dark Ages (according to the Historicism (Christianity) interpretation of eschatology from 538 A.D. when the papal power was fully established in Rome until its political blow in 1798 A.D., when Louis-Alexandre Berthier the general of Napoleon captured pope Pius VI as prisoner to Valence, France) and (ii) the Antichrist to be related to papacy.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.


edit on 11/16/2012 by defcon5 because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 16-11-2012 @ 02:34 PM by Hydroman
Originally posted by defcon5
According to historicism, its the final 'Beast' mentioned in the book of Revelation.

It meets all the criteria of being that last beast:

1) It had two horns like a lamb: Starts out as a christian nation, has the appearance of a lamb.

2) but it spoke like a dragon: Becomes the most worldly nation on Earth and the final world superpower. Uses its might to bully other nations into line.

3) It exercised all the authority of the first beast on its behalf: The first beast being Rome. The US is based on the Roman Empire. Our laws are based on Justinian I's legal codex, we even have the same type of government: An Oligarchical Republic. There are thousands of simularities between the US and Rome, too many for me to recount here.

4) whose fatal wound had been healed: It comes into existence shortly before the Roman Catholic Chruch was removed from political power by General Berthier in 1798. Obviously we declared our independence in 1776. Even John Wesley had this figured out, and wrote about the second beast arising in his lifetime while writing his commentary of Revelation in 1760.

5) And it performed great signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to the earth in full view of the people: Been there, done that: Trinity

6) It ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived: We force other countries to accept our form of Democracy, Capitalist Oligarchical Republics, and to partake of our banking and financial system. If they refuse we invade them under the auspices of protecting them from Communism. Of course, just like the Roman Empire, this system is by the rich, for the rich, to exploit the rest as slave workers. To exploit their national resources, and be worldly in general. Last time I checked God is very much against folks being 'Worldly”...

7) It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads: We are in the process of doing this right now. Using UN biometric ICAO (used on E-Passports) facial recognition on all US ID cards. REAL ID: CONNECTING THE DOTS TO AN INTERNATIONAL ID

Great, another attempt to interpret what a vague "prophecy" was trying to convey. Surely somebody will get it right one of these days. I wonder why this god can't speak clearly to his people so they don't get his word wrong?
edit on 16-11-2012 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 16-11-2012 @ 02:42 PM by defcon5
reply to post by Hydroman
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Actually the MOST COMPREHENSIVE writing ever done on the topic of Christian Eschatology, the Horae Apocalypticae, agrees with what I am stating here. Research before you accuse...

Horae Apocalypticae

Horae Apocalypticae is an eschatological study written by Edward Bishop Elliott. The book is, as its long-title sets out, "A commentary on the apocalypse, critical and historical; including also an examination of the chief prophecies of Daniel illustrated by an apocalyptic chart, and engravings from medals and other extant monuments of antiquity with appendices, containing, besides other matter, a sketch of the history of apocalyptic interpretation, the chief apocalyptic counter-schemes and indices."

"Horae Apocalypticae (Hours with the Apocalypse) is doubtless the most elaborate work ever produced on the Apocalypse. Without an equal in exhaustive research in its field, it was occasioned by the futurist attack on the Historical School of interpretation. Begun in 1837, its 2,500 pages are buttressed by some 10,000 invaluable references to ancient and modern works. It ran through five editions (1844, 1846, 1847, 1851 and 1862)."[1] In 1868 he published a Postscript to comment on the events, or perceived lack of events, marking the prophetically significant years, 1865/7.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



reply posted on 16-11-2012 @ 02:48 PM by NoJoker13
reply to post by defcon5


So your saying this isn't an interpretation that this is fact? Because by your second post that's what it sounds like, hydro had a problem with yet another post about interpreted scripture, clearly your post is whether it be your thoughts or someone else's. So what exactly should he not accuse you of? Because all he seemed to have a problem with is interpreted scripture, regardless of how you got to the conclusion you did, it's still an opinion.


reply posted on 16-11-2012 @ 02:56 PM by Hydroman
Originally posted by defcon5
Originally posted by Hydroman
I wonder why this god can't speak clearly to his people so they don't get his word wrong?

BTW... John was writing in the same prophetic language as Daniel. The Angels sent to Daniel give a clear explanation of everything that is mentioned in each vision, including the fact that all the beasts and part of the statue, all relate to World Superpowers of their day.

John, followed this language, and he also wrote somewhat cryptically as he was speaking against the Roman Empire who had already sent him into exile as being a PITA.

Come roughly 1500 years later, and the Bible falls into the hands of the public that the Roman Catholic Church has been preventing up to this time. It becomes harder for them to hide that they are obviously not mentioned in a "good light" in prophecy. So their answer to this was to muddy the waters through the Protestant Counter Reformation, brought about by the Council of Trent. They hid their place in prophecy, and by doing so hid who the last beast was as well...

So to answer your question, its not God who wrote it cryptically, its the RCC who muddied up the waters.
Again, why are there so many interpretations, by you and anyone else, of what these "prophecies" are saying if you all believe and follow the same god? Can you all not get your information from him directly, clearly, and concisely? Or, do we have to depend on fellow humans to get it right? If so, how good is that?

Next, if you can't get your information clearly and concisely from god, what good is it for you to give us your interpretation of what you think it means? Couldn't you mislead people accidentally? (I've seen it happen many times)
edit on 16-11-2012 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)
edit on 16-11-2012 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)


reply posted on 16-11-2012 @ 02:58 PM by defcon5
reply to post by NoJoker13


There are only three serious schools of Christian Eschatology, so no, its not just “another attempt to interpret what a vague "prophecy" was trying to convey”. There are really only three ways to interpret it, two of which are both brought about through the RCC Protestant Counter Reformation, by the Jesuit Order as sanctioned under the Council of Trent. Futurism, and Preterism are both Anti-Protestant Propaganda, and Preterism is still the school followed by Catholics to this day. Futurism, the one that even the folks who wrote it rejected, has become the main school now accepted by Protestants since Hal Lindsey wrote the “Late Great Planet Earth”, and got it a bunch of publicity.

… However...
No Protestant Christian should be following either of these RCC schools, they should be following the schools that all the original Protestant Fathers taught and believed, Historicism.

Is it fact... Yes, I believe that it is, and that the history exists to prove that it is fact.
edit on 11/16/2012 by defcon5 because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 16-11-2012 @ 03:00 PM by kettlebellysmith
reply to post by Anundeniabletruth
The reason that God and His followers believe homosexuality to be sinful is because it does not allow for the procreation of the human race. There is also the increased probablity of the spread of deadly diseases. Have you ever heard of sepis or septic shock. These are overwhelming infections that can be spread in various ways, but homosexual contact between men can easily spread this infection, especially when men are practicing on the "down low." It has been my experience that God has a pretty good reason for all of his laws, from the Ten Commandments on. I refer you to the books Deutoronmy and Leviticus, modern translation, and possibly a good commentary.


reply posted on 16-11-2012 @ 03:00 PM by defcon5
reply to post by Hydroman


See my above post, it also answers your questions as well.


reply posted on 16-11-2012 @ 03:00 PM by Hydroman
Originally posted by defcon5
reply to post by NoJoker13


There are only three serious schools of Christian Eschatology, so no, its not just “another attempt to interpret what a vague "prophecy" was trying to convey”. There are really only three ways to interpret it, two of which are both brought about through the RCC Protestant Counter Reformation, by the Jesuit Order as sanctioned under the Council of Trent. Futurism, and Preterism are both Anti-Protestant Propaganda, and Preterism is still the school followed by Catholics to this day. Futurism, the one that even the folks who wrote it rejected, has become the main school now accepted by Protestants since Hal Lindsey wrote the “Late Great Planet Earth”, and got it a bunch of publicity.

… However...
No Protestant Christian should be following either of these RCC schools, they should be following the schools that all the original Protestant Fathers taught and believed, Historicism.

Is it fact... Yes, I believe that it is, and that the history exists to prove that it is fact.
edit on 11/16/2012 by defcon5 because: (no reason given)
Are you saying that you indeed have it right then? No possibility of error?


reply posted on 16-11-2012 @ 03:04 PM by kettlebellysmith
reply to post by blindlyzack
You say God isn't real. Can you prove it? No, you can't. You can simply state that YOU don't believe God is real, but you cannot prove it, because you cannot prove a negative.


reply posted on 16-11-2012 @ 03:10 PM by dogstar23
reply to post by DarthMuerte


So, God attacks based on political boundaries and doesn't care if He is harming his followers in the process? I don't know where you're getting your interpretation of Christianity from, but I'm going to assume its from a similar source as that of Pat Robertson, or the "God Loves Dead Soldiers" guy.
Pages: <<  3    4    5    6    7    8    9  >>    ^^TOP^^



New Testament Fairy Tales
  Posted 7 days ago with 25 member flags
A Brief Rant On Religion
  Posted 2 days ago with 24 member flags
Obama has declared himself the messiah?
  Posted 3 days ago with 13 member flags