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Is the USA Now Under God's Judgement?

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posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 09:58 AM
reply to post by GafferUK1981

There is no such thing as a sin.

K, you've eliminated God, Jesus Christ and sin so far that I know of, putting you well past the point where you will now be unable to stop eliminating until nothing exists. All in under what, 35 years of you being on the planet ?
Good thing some one smart like you came along to straighten out all of us believers.

Where have you been and what took you so long?

posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 10:18 AM
I have avoided this thread because I knew it was going to be full of ignorance, spite, hate and intolerance. I knew there would be zealots that actually believe in the words of one single book written nearly 2,000 years ago at the behest of a Roman Emperor to unify his empire under one religion

I knew there would be people speaking for and against all the other spiritualism, theology and philosophy...every bit as zealous as the above.

I read them all. I find solace and hope in them all. I find love and forgiveness, knowledge and wisdom in them all. I also find hate and intolerance...ignorance and naivety in them all.

I am a spiritual person, but I am not a religious person. The Universal mind that I acknowledge is not from any one religion or belief system, but a culmination of all of their best. I do not believe the Universal Mind judges the innocent along with the guilty so therefore I do not believe It judges whole nations. Those tales are ghost stories meant to keep the ignorant and uneducated in-line with whoever was in charge.

You are free to believe whatever makes your heart feel better and you mind at ease. I am free to disagree with that. I recall a powerful scripture that says "judge not lest ye be judged" is not your place to even speculate God's opinion. This Universal Mind (that I will refer to as God from this viewpoint) is so far above a human being's capacity to comprehend, that it is blasphemous to pretend to understand it and especially "speak" on it's behalf. For all we know, we are nothing but a thought passing through It's mind as it ponders whether to create us or not...that mind is so powerful, that It's thoughts became consciously manifest....perhaps he will decide to follow through and create us...maybe he will decide it's a bad idea.

posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 11:27 AM
reply to post by WhoKnows100

Paul says the following...

Romans 2:28-29 (KJV)
28For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 11:30 AM
I'm certain god would have forcast the United states of America by name in the bible if he was God.

it appears he did not

though it is a nice bit of mindcontrol to drag "God" into the affairs of men...

edit on 22-11-2012 by Danbones because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 11:38 AM

Originally posted by Jeremiah65
I have avoided this thread because I knew it was going to be full of ignorance, spite, hate and intolerance.

There is none of that in my posts. I think you are judging incorrectly.

posted on Nov, 23 2012 @ 11:55 PM

Originally posted by madenusa
When did God predict all this would happen in America?

LONG before America existed as a nation...

Originally posted by madenusa
Nothing is ever mentioned about Americans in the Bible and Koran."


"Tell them to read Jeremiah 51:8-15. He named it THE MYSTERY BABYLON, THE GREAT ADULTERESS. Also read Revelations Chapter 18, the whole chapter. There it says clearly what will happen to America."

Dumitru Duduman's Vision of America's Red Dawn

“Tell everyone to read from Jeremiah 51:8-15, Revelation chapter 18, and Zechariah chapter 14,
where Christ fights against those who possess the earth.

edit on 23-11-2012 by Murgatroid because: Added link

posted on Nov, 24 2012 @ 11:57 AM
reply to post by Murgatroid

But that could apply to America, china, Russia, Canada, Britain etc.

It just goes to show that the bible is deliberately vague to make fools think it is a prediction rather than a guess. It is the same as a cold reader (psychic).

posted on Nov, 24 2012 @ 12:27 PM
reply to post by truejew

Far as I know he didn't address his post to you, he just said what he 'expected' to find here. But you know some people think when someone says 'EVERYONE' that their just talking about them, they call those people sociopaths. An also this thread is full of what he said it was, again he never said you specifically or said 'EVERYONE' was at fault for it.
edit on 24-11-2012 by NoJoker13 because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 24 2012 @ 12:57 PM

Originally posted by NoJoker13
reply to post by truejew

Far as I know he didn't address his post to you, he just said what he 'expected' to find here. But you know some people think when someone says 'EVERYONE' that their just talking about them, they call those people sociopaths. An also this thread is full of what he said it was, again he never said you specifically or said 'EVERYONE' was at fault for it.
edit on 24-11-2012 by NoJoker13 because: (no reason given)

I am not everyone, I am included in "everyone".
edit on 24-11-2012 by truejew because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 24 2012 @ 03:13 PM
reply to post by GafferUK1981

Originally posted by GafferUK1981
But that could apply to America, china, Russia, Canada, Britain etc..

It applies to America.

It has been confirmed so many times throughout history that the odds are now absolutely astronomical.

Just a few who have correlated this:

A. A. Allen, George Washington, William Branham, Nita Johnson, Hopi Indians, David E. Taylor, Henry Gruver, Sadhu Sundar Selvaraj, Anton Sawyer, etc > 220 Prophetic Warnings PDF.

“Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth His secret unto His servants the prophets. The lion hath roared, who will not fear? The Lord God hath spoken, who can but prophesy?” ‘AMOS 3:7-8

I got beside the angel. He showed me all of California. He showed me all the cities of California. Then he showed me Las Vegas. "You see what I have shown you. This is Sodom and Gomorrah. In one day it will burn." He said, "Its sin has reached the Holy One."

He showed me another great city. He said, "Do you know what city this is?"

I said, "No."

He said, "This is New York City. This is Sodom and Gomorrah. In one day it will burn."

He showed me Florida. He said, "This is Florida. This is Sodom and Gomorrah. In one day it will burn."

He didn't let me say a word until he brought me back to the place we had left. He said, "Now, Dumitru, you can talk to me."

He said, "I brought you to this country, Dumitru. I want to wake up a lot of people. I love this country. I love the people. I want to save them. America will burn."

The proof that this message is from God: The thirteen prophecies foretold by the angel Gabriel to Dumitru actually came to pass.

edit on 24-11-2012 by Murgatroid because: I felt like it..

posted on Nov, 24 2012 @ 03:17 PM
reply to post by Murgatroid

I'm sorry but I don't buy it

posted on Nov, 24 2012 @ 03:25 PM

Originally posted by buster2010
How can America be under the judgment of something that has yet been proven to exist? It's funny how people say there are no aliens but believe in God with the same amount of proof.

God doesn't exist to prove anything.

Judgement is for the afterlife.

God is the creator, he is the beacon of good. His words are not the words of men or texts.

As sure as there is evil in this world there is a God. You can choose to believe or not, you can be influenced and guided by evil, you know inherently what is right and wrong, what is just and unjust, what is good and what is evil.

God makes no choices for no man, no people nor country. That is up to all of us.
edit on 24-11-2012 by ausername because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 24 2012 @ 03:29 PM
reply to post by GafferUK1981

You will, when it comes to pass.

Remember those words...

posted on Nov, 24 2012 @ 04:14 PM
reply to post by Murgatroid

Yeah whatever pal, I strongly doubt it.

South in the bible is known to be fictitious, why would that part be true?

posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 02:05 PM
reply to post by adjensen
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

In a nutshell:

Reformation Papacy

The institution of the papacy underwent attacks by many Protestant reformers, including Martin Luther (Pope Leo X was the pope who planned the initial church reaction against Luther until his death in 1521), John Calvin, Thomas Cranmer, John Knox, Cotton Mather, and John Wesley, identified the Roman Papacy as the Antichrist.[citation needed] The Centuriators of Magdeburg, a group of Lutheran scholars in Magdeburg headed by Matthias Flacius, wrote the 12-volume "Magdeburg Centuries" to discredit the papacy and identify the pope as the Antichrist. The fifth round of talks in the Lutheran-Roman Catholic dialogue notes,
In calling the pope the "antichrist," the early Lutherans stood in a tradition that reached back into the eleventh century. Not only dissidents and heretics but even saints had called the bishop of Rome the "antichrist" when they wished to castigate his abuse of power.[1]
The four most important traditions to emerge directly from the reformation were the Lutheran tradition, the Reformed/Calvinist/Presbyterian tradition, the Anabaptist tradition, and the Anglican tradition. Subsequent Protestant traditions generally trace their roots back to these initial four schools of the Reformation. It also led to the Catholic or Counter Reformation within the Roman Catholic Church. Lutherans, Reformed, Anabaptists, and Methodists all included references to the Papacy as the Antichrist in their confessions of faith:

As to the rest...
First it should be pointed out that holding a “discourse” with them is not the same as saying that all is well and good with their beliefs. Remember that Luther was even a Catholic Monk, and was holding discourse with with the Church in an attempt to reform it. He had no intention of creating the schism that occurred due to the Papacies unwillingness to adhere to the Word of God. The 95 thesis are actually written in a manner which shows Luther at the time believed that the Indulgence sellers were using tactics that the Pope would disagree with. The problem was that the Pope not only didn't disagree with what they were doing, but was pushing them to get even more money.

I can speak for at least one of these groups you have mentioned here, the others I am not as up on their history. I can tell you though, that one of the things I believe I already mentioned is that most Churches now follow Jesuit Futurism, rather than the Historicism that their founders originally wished. There is a reason for this, and remember that it was the RCC's intention to ensure this happened in all protestant churches, as it was part of the counter-reformation.

I can tell you that the ELCA was founded by a number of ex-members of the LMCS and WELS. These were folks who excommunicated from the two churches after getting involved in the Charismatic Movement. Its comprised of independent Churches (each pastor owns his own church), with no strict oversight like you have with the LMCS or WELS.

Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
In 1976 the Association of Evangelical Lutheran Churches (AELC) was formed from congregations that left the Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod in a schism precipitated by progressive-traditionalist disputes over higher criticism, academic freedom and ecumenism. Its establishment was precipitated by the Seminex controversy at the LCMS's Concordia Seminary in St. Louis, Missouri in 1974. The AELC brought approximately 100,000 members into the ELCA. Its immigrant heritage came mostly from Germany; the complexion of its theology generally resembled that of the LCA, as the dissenting former "moderate" faction of the LCMS.

This groups is what became the ELCA...

Differences within the ELCA
The ELCA has many differences of opinion among its constituent congregations, which have caused a number of disputes over social and doctrinal issues. In part, this is due to the fact that it assimilated three different Lutheran church bodies, each with its own factions and divisions, thus inheriting old intra-group conflicts while creating new inter-group ones. Differences on issues usually reflect theological disputes between various parties.

So this is why we get all sorts of whacky, anti-Lutheran stuff out of the ELCA. When you see something that the Lutheran Church has done, and its in some way contradictory to Christianity, you can bet that its the ELCA that’s doing it, not the LMCS or WELS...
I can tell you right now that both the LMCS and WELS consider the Papacy the office of the Antichrist...

Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod
In 1959 the WELS formally issued its Statement on the Antichrist, a doctrinal statement that declared, "we reaffirm the statement of the Lutheran Confessions, that 'the Pope is the very Antichrist'".[21] This identification of the Antichrist with the Pope is part of traditional Protestant amillennial historicism.[22] [23] [24] The Roman Catholic Church is also amillennialist, but, unlike the WELS, holds to the view that the Antichrist will come near the end of the world. Mark Schroeder, president of WELS, affirmed in 2011 that "WELS does hold to the historic Lutheran position that the Roman Catholic papacy fits the biblical characteristics of the Antichrist." He also stated that "While WELS continues to see the characteristics of the Antichrist in the Roman Catholic papacy, it is wrong and dishonest to portray this belief as stemming from anti-Catholic bigotry. We do have strong convictions, and we identify what we believe are teachings that depart from the Word of God. But we hold no animosity toward Christians who hold the Roman Catholic faith, and we respect the right of people to hold beliefs different from ours even as we point out the error. Furthermore, we rejoice that even in the Roman Catholic Church, where we believe that the gospel has been distorted, there are many Catholics who hold to a simple faith in Jesus Christ as their Savior and who will ultimately be saved. Testifying to the errors that still exist in Catholic doctrine is itself an expression of love; remaining silent or glossing over doctrinal differences would express the opposite."[25]

Lutheran Church Missouri Synod
The LCMS holds that all "false teachers who teach contrary to Christ's Word are opponents of Christ" and, insofar as they do so, are anti-Christ.[17] The LCMS does not teach, nor has it ever taught, that any individual Pope as a person is to be identified with the Antichrist.[17] However, to the extent that the papacy continues to claim as official dogma the canons and decrees of the Council of Trent, the LCMS position is that the office of the papacy is the Antichrist.[17]

Could the Lutheran, or other protestant, churches re-merge with Roman Catholicism?
Sure if the RCC agrees to submit on all its Anti-Christian and Anti-Biblical stances...
Never going to happen though.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

edit on 11/25/2012 by defcon5 because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 06:42 PM
reply to post by DarthMuerte

In a word. NO!!
Don't be an ignorant fool.
God is a fairy tale told to morons who want don't want to accept their own power and responsibility for their actions.

posted on Nov, 26 2012 @ 11:20 AM
reply to post by truejew

Keep telling your self that Napoleon.

posted on Nov, 30 2012 @ 08:01 PM

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by mymymy
reply to post by adjensen

Yes we are an experiment. If God gave the world everything, but didn't give everyone everything, but sat back to see if we would follow his "blueprint", THAT is an experiment.

No, it isn't. It's called existence. You are put here, given direction, both internal (conscience) and external (teaching) that tells you what is moral and how to act. Whether you choose to act in accordance with that morality is your choice. Period. That goes for you, me, Bill Gates, President Obama, everyone.

I don't know how to dissect comments like you, but Would I force my children to do things against their wills? If I was Omnipotent and could provide for all, well, I wouldn't have to, if I was Omnipotent, I am not cruel so I would never put them in that position,

How? How would you never put them in that position? Would you simply make sure that food magically appeared on the plates of all the poor people? How would that affect how people perceived you, and how they perceived their duty to those around them?

but seeing as I am NOT Omnipotent, if my child had more then he needed, yes I would force him to do what's right

So, you see nothing wrong with forcing your will on others, regardless of their beliefs or desires? You're that sure that your view of right and wrong is so correct that you are willing to dictate it to others, regardless of what they think?

Sorry, just got back to this. If we are not an experiment, and he really loves us, then please do it yourself. Have 2 kids and give only ONE of them all of your emotional and financial support and totally ignore the other one just to see if the first child "does the right thing". Could YOU do that? I am betting NO, because I am betting you are not cruel

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