Is the USA Now Under God's Judgement?

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by truejew
Neither have the fruit of the Spirit and neither are Christian.

... says the man whose heretic religion bases its non-Christian beliefs on a medieval Jewish forgery of The Gospel of Matthew for its basis. The only thing your cult has on the Mormons is the paltry number of people that have fallen for your modified Bible.

We base our beliefs on the Bible. We do not add or take away from the teachings of Jesus, the apostles, or the early church. The Catholics and Protestants include teachings from the Judaism perverted with Babylonian teachings. Their lack of the fruit of the Spirit is clear proof.

reply to post by truejew


Your "Hebrew Gospel of Matthew" with the one word verse 28:19 is a Medieval forgery. You do not follow the Bible, you followed an edited version that suits your heresy.

reply to post by adjensen


That's the best word I've seen for a while that describes the bible, "edited"

Makes you wonder what it was like when Constantine put it together

Originally posted by GafferUK1981
reply to post by adjensen

 

That's the best word I've seen for a while that describes the bible, "edited"

Makes you wonder what it was like when Constantine put it together

Neither Constantine or the Council of Nicaea had anything to do with the selection of books for the New Testament.

reply to post by adjensen


Then who put all the third hand stories and Chinese whispers together?

Originally posted by GafferUK1981
reply to post by adjensen

 

Then who put all the third hand stories and Chinese whispers together?

Here's a timeline for you: Development of the Biblical Canon. Apart from a few changes, the New Testament was largely as we know it now over a hundred years prior to Constantine.

As for "third hand" and "Chinese whispers", both are addressed in the guy's lecture video below. If you don't like (or understand) statistics, you might not get much out of it, but the evidence is that the Gospels that are in the New Testament were written by Jews from Israel who either saw things happen or used the direct testimony of those who did.

Originally posted by adjensen
reply to post by truejew

 

Your "Hebrew Gospel of Matthew" with the one word verse 28:19 is a Medieval forgery. You do not follow the Bible, you followed an edited version that suits your heresy.

If Jesus really spoke the words "baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost", then it must be explained why the apostles only baptized in the name of Jesus Christ and why the only Scripture that mentions the trinitarian baptism, is a Scripture that even some trinitarians say was not spoken by Jesus.


"The historical riddle is not solved by Matthew 28:19, since, according to a wide scholarly consensus, it is not an authentic saying of Jesus, not even an elaboration of a Jesus-saying on baptism" (The Anchor Bible Dictionary, Vol. 1, 1992, page 585).

"It has been customary to trace the institution of the practice (of baptism) to the words of Christ recorded in Matthew 28:19. But the authenticity of this passage has been challenged on historical as well as on textual grounds. It must be acknowledged that the formula of the threefold name, which is here enjoined, does not appear to have been employed by the primitive Church, which, so far as our information goes, baptized 'in' or 'into the name of Jesus' (or 'Jesus Christ' or Lord Jesus': Acts 2:38, 8:16, 10:48, 19:5, 1 Cor. 1:13, 15) (The Dictionary of the Bible, 1947, page 83).

Matthew 28:19, "the Church of the first days did not observe this world-wide command, even if they knew it. The command to baptize into the threefold name is a late doctrinal expansion. In place of the words "baptizing... Spirit" we should probably read simply "into my name," i.e. (turn the nations) to Christianity, "in my name," i.e. (teach the nations) in my spirit" (Peake's Commentary on the Bible, 1929, page 723).


Instead of accepting the truth, you choose to call those who do "heretics" in order to deceive others away from the truth. That along with the wars and murders show the fruit of Catholics and Protestants. It is not the fruit of the Spirit.

reply to post by adjensen


"You do not follow the Bible, you followed an edited version that suits your heresy."

I love this line! Can I have it for my signature?
Doesn't that describe just about every religion? There is no such thing as an unedited version of the bible. However, there is such a thing as people with the very childish "I'm right, you're wrong, just cause" attitude.

Seriously, this is just about the best thing I've heard this week... maybe even this month.

reply to post by truejew


Sorry, since I have none of those texts, I cannot verify that they actually say that, why, and what their basis is for their conclusions. However, "challenged on historical as well as on textual grounds" is a red flag that someone is coming to a conclusion to meet their expectation.

Instead of accepting the truth, you choose to call those who do "heretics" in order to deceive others away from the truth.

Well, let's see why your cult might be seen as heretical.

First of all, contrary to your claims, you are not a Christian, because you reject the Nicene Creed, and by rejecting it, you reject Christianity. Now, you might call yourself a "Non-Trinitarian Follower of Christ", and I wouldn't say a word about it, but you are not a Christian, which is the term applied to those who, among other things, attest to the Nicene Creed.

Now, as to your heretical teachings about the invalidity of the Trinity, the first that must be noted is that, by Christ's words in the Gospels, it is abundantly clear that Father, Son and Holy Spirit are not one and the same, unless you wish to claim that Christ had some sort of multi-personality disorder that led him to have conversations with himself and to frequently refer to himself in the third person.

So, with that in mind, we see these options:

1) Christ is not divine (a heresy)
2) The Father is not divine (a heresy)
3) Allowance for polytheism (a heresy)
4) Trinitarianism

Added to this is the fairly obvious observation, which I have pointed out before, that if the early church inserted Matthew 28:19 into the Bible to counter your claims 2,000 years in the future, why they wouldn't have similarly changed all other instances? They had smart guys back in the time of Augustine, too, you know.

And, of course, there are plenty of Christians who are aware of these silly claims and effectively counter them. Must baptism be "in Jesus' name"?

Originally posted by Anundeniabletruth
reply to post by adjensen

 

"You do not follow the Bible, you followed an edited version that suits your heresy."

I love this line! Can I have it for my signature?

Feel free.

In the case of "TrueJew" (who is neither true, nor Jewish,) his cult uses a version of Matthew that was created in the Middle Ages by Jewish anti-Christians, who used it to argue against Christians.

In everyone else's Bible, Matthew 28:19 looks something like this:

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit (Matthew 28:19 NIV)

In his, it looks like this:

Go
(The Hebrew Gospel of Matthew 28:19)

Yep, a one word, two letter Bible verse. And you thought "Jesus wept" was wordy

The Karma will destroy the US for their tyranny to oppress their people and other country. Every great nation destroy itself because of corruption.

Ugh, this type of thinking drives me insane, well these types of Christians.. TBy this same doctrine, god predetermines the fate/destiny of everything/everyone.. Why would god plan such awful things that we see in the world? Why would he knowingly do this? Why would god then, punish people/things for merely (and unknowingly) playing out the destiny in which he created? That makes no sense, is your god some wicked tyrant?

Originally posted by adjensen
reply to post by truejew

 

Well, let's see why your cult might be seen as heretical.

Terms such as "cult", "heretic", and "heretical" are often used by those who cannot answer the points brought up. In the case of Trinitarians, it has in the past led to many being burned at the stake. Muslims prefer "infidel" and beheading. Does either group show the fruit of the Spirit? I say no.

Originally posted by adjensen

First of all, contrary to your claims, you are not a Christian, because you reject the Nicene Creed, and by rejecting it, you reject Christianity. Now, you might call yourself a "Non-Trinitarian Follower of Christ", and I wouldn't say a word about it, but you are not a Christian, which is the term applied to those who, among other things, attest to the Nicene Creed.

Can you show me where in the Bible, it says we must accept the Nicene Creed to be saved?

Originally posted by adjensen

Now, as to your heretical teachings about the invalidity of the Trinity, the first that must be noted is that, by Christ's words in the Gospels, it is abundantly clear that Father, Son and Holy Spirit are not one and the same, unless you wish to claim that Christ had some sort of multi-personality disorder that led him to have conversations with himself and to frequently refer to himself in the third person.

The division between the Father and Son of God is a division between God and God humbled as a man. Not one God/person to another God/person which takes away from the oneness of God spoken of by God. God is a jealous God, there is no God beside Him.

reply to post by truejew


None of that is a valid response to my questions.

Care to try again?

reply to post by adjensen


Hmm well, please correct me, but it seems like there are many qoutes from the founding fathers stating that they are not religious or a Christian nation - that beliefs should not be a factor in the government.

Benjamin Franklin - Lighthouses are more useful than churches.

John Adams - This world would be the best possible worlds of all if there where no religion in it.

Thomas Jefferson - Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man

"The Government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion." --Treaty of Tripoli, 1796

Originally posted by adjensen
reply to post by truejew

 

None of that is a valid response to my questions.

Care to try again?

I believe the division between the Father and Son of God as I have stated in my previous post answers your questions.

Originally posted by adjensen
reply to post by adjensen

 

In the case of "TrueJew" (who is neither true, nor Jewish,)

True Christianity is a Jewish faith, with the Messieh of the Jews and 12 Jewish apostles and Jewish prophets as its base. It is the only valid Judaism.

Originally posted by mc4denmark
reply to post by adjensen

 

Hmm well, please correct me, but it seems like there are many qoutes from the founding fathers stating that they are not religious or a Christian nation - that beliefs should not be a factor in the government.

Benjamin Franklin - Lighthouses are more useful than churches.

John Adams - This world would be the best possible worlds of all if there where no religion in it.

Thomas Jefferson - Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man

"The Government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion." --Treaty of Tripoli, 1796

edit on 22-11-2012 by mc4denmark because: (no reason given)

You are correct. The "founding fathers" were not Christian. Their god is the god of the masons, not Jesus Christ.

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by adjensen
reply to post by adjensen

 

In the case of "TrueJew" (who is neither true, nor Jewish,)

True Christianity is a Jewish faith, with the Messieh of the Jews and 12 Jewish apostles and Jewish prophets as its base. It is the only valid Judaism.

Pardon? After the splitting of the united Kingdom of Israel, the name Yehudi was used for the southern kingdom of Judah only. Therefore the modern English word "Judaism" is derived from this word, Yehudi. The religion of Judaism then is NOT the faith expressed throughout scripture.  In the days Jesus walked this Earth, He came to the House of Judah in Judea. The Israelites were composed of 12 tribes, the vast majority of which were never called "Jews" but ISRAELITES who had been dispersed centuries before. Judaism today is composed of many sects, most of which derive from the Babylonian Talmud and the Kabala - from the time in Babylonian captivity - and Rabbinism, the traditions of the elders, and NOT from Hebrew scripture. Jesus came right out and told us He came for the lost sheep of the House of ISRAEL, and in declaring the House of Judah desolate, He finished putting the entire 12 tribes away due to disobedience. All were put on equal footing - put away. At that moment, NONE of the 12 tribes had the Father  unless they obeyed His Will - believed in the Son.

Christian, those who's faith is of Jesus/Yahushua, reflect the entire Bible as declared in the names Adam to Noah;
Adam - Man
Seth - Appointed
Enosh – Mortal
Kenan – Sorrow
Mahalalel – The blessed God
Jared – Shall come down
Enoch – Teaching
Methuselah – His death shall bring
Lamech – Despairing
Noah – Comfort and rest

Christ did not come as a Reformer for the Talmudic religions of Moloch and Astarte, popularly known as JUDAISM today.

Salvation is not of the Jews, for salvation cometh out of Judea/Judah.

Originally posted by WhoKnows100

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by adjensen
reply to post by adjensen

 

In the case of "TrueJew" (who is neither true, nor Jewish,)

True Christianity is a Jewish faith, with the Messieh of the Jews and 12 Jewish apostles and Jewish prophets as its base. It is the only valid Judaism.

Pardon? After the splitting of the united Kingdom of Israel, the name Yehudi was used for the southern kingdom of Judah only. Therefore the modern English word "Judaism" is derived from this word, Yehudi. The religion of Judaism then is NOT the faith expressed throughout scripture.  In the days Jesus walked this Earth, He came to the House of Judah in Judea. The Israelites were composed of 12 tribes, the vast majority of which were never called "Jews" but ISRAELITES who had been dispersed centuries before. Judaism today is composed of many sects, most of which derive from the Babylonian Talmud and the Kabala - from the time in Babylonian captivity - and Rabbinism, the traditions of the elders, and NOT from Hebrew scripture. Jesus came right out and told us He came for the lost sheep of the House of ISRAEL, and in declaring the House of Judah desolate, He finished putting the entire 12 tribes away due to disobedience. All were put on equal footing - put away. At that moment, NONE of the 12 tribes had the Father  unless they obeyed His Will - believed in the Son.

Christian, those who's faith is of Jesus/Yahushua, reflect the entire Bible as declared in the names Adam to Noah;
Adam - Man
Seth - Appointed
Enosh – Mortal
Kenan – Sorrow
Mahalalel – The blessed God
Jared – Shall come down
Enoch – Teaching
Methuselah – His death shall bring
Lamech – Despairing
Noah – Comfort and rest

Christ did not come as a Reformer for the Talmudic religions of Moloch and Astarte, popularly known as JUDAISM today.

Salvation is not of the Jews, for salvation cometh out of Judea/Judah.

May I add to your fine post that the heir of the promises made to Abraham is Christ, and Christ alone. Only IN Christ can one partake of those promises.


Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. ...
Galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.