The Cow Flatulence Tax

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posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 10:59 AM
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reply to post by soficrow
 


No matter what course we take, in whatever case; cows will produce methane.

In fact, most any eater of vegetable matter will.... heck... even compost heaps do, and don't even look at the taiga, or the defrosting permafrost bogs...

Rather than address that reality by trying to find out how to minimize the effect... (I don't know, perhaps by letting cattle graze naturally on grass?) the 'solvers of problems' evoke banking and trade schemes which they - in their mighty wisdom - will "manage" for our benefit.

I do not dispute the problem... only that this is a function of our "industrial/commercial" manipulation of nature... so I am reticent to allow them to define the solution.




posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 11:00 AM
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reply to post by projectvxn
 



All you would do is shoot the price of beef and milk up.


So rather than discouraging unhealthy beef production and over-consumption of (contaminated) dairy products, are you suggesting we encourage "protein production" alternatives? (Apparently factory farmed pigs and maybe chickens also produce copious amounts of methane.)

Seems to be factory farming that's the real culprit here, and the corporate industry business model. Used to be family farms that produced our food; farmers were happy to make a living, and proud to offer their communities good, healthy food. Now, all the family farms have been destroyed - and "food production" is all about the bottom line.


[And don't get me ranting about how factory farms use human antibiotics routinely, thereby create new diseases, and, and, and....]



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 11:01 AM
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Easy solution: eat more veal! Dont give those udder-sagging bastards time enough to pollute.

Wouldnt the massive piles of manure produce more gas as they compost than the occasional fart?



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 11:03 AM
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Originally posted by soficrow
reply to post by butcherguy
 


Are you advocating a sales tax to consumers, NOT a tax on producers?

???


No, I am saying that any tax on producers is paid by the consumer in the end.
That is how it works. The tax may be levied against the producers, but the consumer pays the bill.
edit on 15-11-2012 by butcherguy because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 11:03 AM
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reply to post by Maxmars
 



this is a function of our "industrial/commercial" manipulation of nature... so I am reticent to allow them to define the solution.


Agreed - it's the corporate industrialization of food production that's the problem here, and the sheer numbers of cattle required to boost and maintain the bottom line. Time for a new "food business" model methinks.

(See post above.)


edit on 15/11/12 by soficrow because: add url



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 11:05 AM
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If that passes it is only a matter of time before they tax your dog or cat. Then they will tax every flush of your toilet. This is just out of control nonsense. China keeps building new coal fired plants and will not be stopped. China is the biggest polluter. Go after them instead. Bring manufacturing back to America where there is an EPA.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 11:07 AM
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reply to post by soficrow
 


I don't care about how you feel about factory farms.

I don't care how you feel about beef or other meats.

I don't care what your definition of "over consumption" is.

What I do care about is not going out of our way to make the worlds poor pay more for food they already can't afford or are having a hard time affording. You just want to punish an industry for what you think are bad practices. I want to make sure we're not compounding the price of food between inflation and taxation. A relationship of economic significance that you "lets tax everything under the sun" people never seem to understand.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 11:07 AM
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All that wasted gas, you mean the factory farms have not yet figured out how to put a tube up the cows wazu to get that natural gas?
reply to post by fnpmitchreturns
 

I have been working with a number of companies that are capturing some methane, but not from the cattle's bums.
They are installing waste treatment plants at factory farms. Methane captured from the treatment plant's digesters is burned to create energy and take the methane out of the greenhouse gas mix.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 11:12 AM
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Originally posted by soficrow
reply to post by Maxmars
 



this is a function of our "industrial/commercial" manipulation of nature... so I am reticent to allow them to define the solution.


Agreed - it's the corporate industrialization of food production that's the problem here, and the sheer numbers of cattle required to boost and maintain the bottom line. Time for a new "food business" model methinks.

(See post above.)




The other problem is the HUGE increase in meat consumption in modern society. Even countries that traditionally didn't eat a lot of meat (China, Japan, etc.) are now following western societies by increasing their meat consumption. You can't really blame the corporations - they are just filling our demand for more and more and more beef. I say we cut back on meat consumption - that would solve a lot of the problem. Just leave the cattle raising to the family farmers and ranchers - they would raise just enough beef for minimal needs - no excess methane - no taxes necessary.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 11:12 AM
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A big milk farm near here uses the poo to make methane to generators. they wanted to sell the excess but regulation got in the way. Government even made them hook up to the grid and pay a monthly minimum till they realized they wern't going to pay it and could just shut it off and it didn't bereak the law. So nw there building their own apartment complex to use the power



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 11:12 AM
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reply to post by projectvxn
 



...Mom and Pop can't produce enough on their own to feed 300 million Americans and every country that imports our food products.


Hmmm. Fallacy.



The amount of food wasted in the United States is staggering. In 2010, more than 34 million tons of food waste was generated, more than any other material category but paper. Food waste accounted for almost 14 percent of the total municipal solid waste stream, less than three percent of which was recovered and recycled in 2010. The rest —33 million tons— was thrown away, making food waste the single largest component of MSW reaching landfills and incinerators.

Generating food waste has significant economic as well as environmental consequences.




I don't think you can come up with a cogent argument as to why we should deliberately make food more expensive.


Our food does not need to be more expensive. Moreover, we are paying through the nose for industrial food processors to REMOVE the nutrition from raw food, then buy it back in tablets - and meanwhile, pay exorbitant prices for "food" that's upwards of 80% powdered cellulose,...

Really stupid imho.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 11:17 AM
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reply to post by kaylaluv
 



...The other problem is the HUGE increase in meat consumption in modern society. ...You can't really blame the corporations - they are just filling our demand for more and more and more beef.


Ever heard of public relations (PR)? Marketing? Advertising? ...You bet your sweet booty we can blame the corporations. They CREATED the market and industrialized cattle production. All to increase the "profit per unit" by "economy of scale" - and jack the bottom line.


Good post btw - thanks and S&



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 11:19 AM
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I am breaking for lunch now. I am going to eat beef.

I like beef.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 11:26 AM
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Originally posted by soficrow
reply to post by kaylaluv
 



...The other problem is the HUGE increase in meat consumption in modern society. ...You can't really blame the corporations - they are just filling our demand for more and more and more beef.


Ever heard of public relations (PR)? Marketing? Advertising? ...You bet your sweet booty we can blame the corporations. They CREATED the market and industrialized cattle production. All to increase the "profit per unit" by "economy of scale" - and jack the bottom line.


Good post btw - thanks and S&


I see what you're saying. Then I guess their marketing is working really well - get 'em addicted to beef, then fill that addiction. There was a thread around here recently about the L.A. City Council advocating their citizens go one day a week without meat. You would have thought the council was a bunch of Nazis, judging by the reaction of most posters. People will get the dt's without their daily beef fix.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 11:27 AM
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reply to post by projectvxn
 



What I do care about is not going out of our way to make the worlds poor pay more for food they already can't afford or are having a hard time affording.


Me too.



You just want to punish an industry for what you think are bad practices.


Erm, no. I want us all to look at the alternatives and evaluate our options.



I want to make sure we're not compounding the price of food between inflation and taxation.


Your concerns are based on at least two erroneous assumptions:

1. You seem to think that what's sold as "food" is food. It's not - most nutrition has been removed in processing and what goes on the shelves is upwards of 80% powdered cellulose, plus meat glue and other crap

2. Production costs and food shortages drive up food prices - in fact:



The amount of food wasted in the United States is staggering. In 2010, more than 34 million tons of food waste was generated, more than any other material category but paper. Food waste accounted for almost 14 percent of the total municipal solid waste stream, less than three percent of which was recovered and recycled in 2010. The rest —33 million tons— was thrown away, making food waste the single largest component of MSW reaching landfills and incinerators.

Generating food waste has significant economic as well as environmental consequences.





A relationship of economic significance that you "lets tax everything under the sun" people never seem to understand.


Good lord NO!!! I emphatically do NOT want to "tax everything." I want to dismantle the profit-driven global corporate industrial economic system that's killing the world and everything in it.
edit on 15/11/12 by soficrow because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 11:32 AM
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reply to post by butcherguy
 



I like beef.


Me too. I grew up on a beef farm, like I said earlier. But let's be clear -

There's a HUGE difference between my Daddy's beef and the crap you get at the supermarket or fast food joint. Plus the added bonuses - no contamination with antibiotic resistant bacteria, no E. coli contamination, no MRSA... The list goes on.



...Thanks for posting.
edit on 15/11/12 by soficrow because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 01:08 PM
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Originally posted by butcherguy



All that wasted gas, you mean the factory farms have not yet figured out how to put a tube up the cows wazu to get that natural gas?
reply to post by fnpmitchreturns
 

I have been working with a number of companies that are capturing some methane, but not from the cattle's bums.
They are installing waste treatment plants at factory farms. Methane captured from the treatment plant's digesters is burned to create energy and take the methane out of the greenhouse gas mix.


I am aware that this is becoming a big new industry. It makes sense to become self sufficient farmer....

"It is like cutting costs at both ends" pun intended! HA HA HA

this shows how inefficient we have become because of cheap energy.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 01:14 PM
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reply to post by soficrow
 



There's a HUGE difference between my Daddy's beef and the crap you get at the supermarket or fast food joint.

100% agreement there!

I grew up eating organic beef and wild things. No GMO. No antibiotics. No crazy pesticides and herbicides. Now they spray the fields with stuff that kills everything but a single species of plant. Scary stuff.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 01:36 PM
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reply to post by butcherguy
 


Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by soficrow
 



There's a HUGE difference between my Daddy's beef and the crap you get at the supermarket or fast food joint.

100% agreement there!

I grew up eating organic beef and wild things. No GMO. No antibiotics. No crazy pesticides and herbicides. Now they spray the fields with stuff that kills everything but a single species of plant. Scary stuff.


Scary indeed! ...Nobody needs beef every day. I'd be happy to get some once a week as long as it tasted good - and was GMO, pesticide, herbicide, GH, and disease free. Which won't happen in factory farms...



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 01:54 PM
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The issue is indeed factory farming and it's unsustainable model of feeding cows things they were not meant to eat. That is, grains. Skews the omega 3 and 6 ratio. Screw cows digestion up. Makes more methane. Also increases e-coli a million fold.

That's why I buy all grassfed. The cows eat the grass growing on the property. Their poop fertilizes the soil and deposits seeds more grass grows. That piece of land is totally self sustaining. Nothing comes in from the outside.

And before you tell me how expensive it is, consider this: I found the price of beef in a 1940 newspaper. I then put that into an inflation calculator. As it turns out, when allowing for inflation, I'm paying what my grandparents did for beef in 1940. Same for pastured poultry. And for pastured eggs I'm paying substantially less!

The problem is we have been made accustomed to dirt cheap factory farmed crap food.





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