The atheists monopoly of true morality....

A thought ocurred to me today....

Poeple that follow any religion need their religion to tell them how to behave, how to treat others, and what to believe/think.... they are forced into doing good things by their religious doctrine... blackmailed if you will.... or they will never gain access to the "next level"...

Atheists however, have no doctrine.. no guidelines... we are just good people because we know it is the right thing to do.... we don't need to be blackmailed into doing good..... common sense and reason dictate that it is the best thing to do for all parties....

I therefore propose that atheists pratice true morality... not morality born out of threats and promises....

Discuss..

PA.

According to religious people, if it wasnt for their god they would rape, murder, steal, etc, all the time every day.

So yes, atheists have true morality.

reply to post by phroziac


thanks for the swift reply Phroziac!

I assume you would classify yourself as an atheist?

PA

I believe we are all born with the instinctual knowledge of what right and wrong is. True morality is in each and every one of us.

So I would not say atheism has a monopoly on morality. But I do think that Religion does try to "take credit" for instilling morals into people, when in fact the morals are still present in the absence of Religion.

I have always argued the same point.
God fearing people are greedy, they will help you because that to them is their ticket to heaven.
Sometimes I think it's laughable how they think they are so pious, but really it's saving your own butt so one can be favoured by god and to mock those who were'nt religious enough and didn't make it.

An atheist that is kind is the purest form of kindness there is.

Religious people, holier than thou.

reply to post by PerfectAnomoly


I would agree, but I consider myself atheistic-like, so no surprise there.

But the main point, and you touched upon it, is that religious people often see atheists as being sinners by default, since there is no ultimate moral authority figure in their minds. Therefore, they must be sinning.

How easy and often is forgotten the very unique human ability..Reason.

Having reason and compassion makes me want to not hurt others.

I would say religions are needed. Needed for people that have no reason and compassion, or have a diminished intellectual capacity They need to fear something in order be "good". It's like with the vile beast. It fears and obeys only the stronger...the master.

Like your avatar pic... the legendary Bill Hicks...my hero

I've always said that you don't need religion for morality. I know some good people who are religious, who I'm sure would be moral whether they believed in God or not. And, I've known an atheist who wasn't very moral. I guess I kind of agree with the poster who said we are generally hard-wired for morality regardless of our beliefs. But for some of us (unfortunately), the hard-wiring goes a little haywire.

For the record, I consider myself an agnostic.

reply to post by MarioOnTheFly


Thanks for the replies and contribution to the dabate...

I must admit, it was that premise that inspired me to start the thread...

I am fed up with religious people claiming that because atheists have no moral figure/no god to follow, we cannot know morality... that it is a stranger to us....

When in fact.. some of the foulest human souls to have walked the earth were believers.. and indeed used their chosen religion to perpetrate their hideous crimes...

PA

reply to post by MarioOnTheFly


And yes... Bill was the man!!

PA

reply to post by kaylaluv


Thanks for the comments Kayla...

Quick question... Is that Mary Pickford in your Avatar??

PA

All things being equal if my life were in someone else's hands I wouldn't be trusting the atheist.

Sure the atheist can walk the walk and talk the talk when they aren't faced with a dire situation and everything is going smoothly. But when the chips are down where do they turn for their strength? That's when it really counts and the atheist just doesn't have it.

They'll fold quicker than the theist.

reply to post by PerfectAnomoly

Religious are forced into doing good things by their religious doctrine..
Atheist are just good people because we know it is the right thing to do...

I like your thought process, i always had trouble saying how morality is born with the person. but you provided a better statement for my future use.

reply to post by sheepslayer247

But I do think that Religion does try to "take credit" for instilling morals into people..

That is the main reason religious parrot that only religion can teach morality because their higher ups told them that.

_____________


Morality or common sense is born with us, it is developed through experience.

ex: Someone steals your money, you get sad, you family has no food.
Because of this you will not steal from someone else because, you know what it would put the victims through.

Originally posted by PerfectAnomoly
reply to post by kaylaluv

 

Thanks for the comments Kayla...

Quick question... Is that Mary Pickford in your Avatar??

PA

Nope - it's Greta Garbo.

Originally posted by 11235813213455
All things being equal if my life were in someone else's hands I wouldn't be trusting the atheist.

Sure the atheist can walk the walk and talk the talk when they aren't faced with a dire situation and everything is going smoothly. But when the chips are down where do they turn for their strength? That's when it really counts and the atheist just doesn't have it.

They'll fold quicker than the theist.

Actually, the reason we "turn to god" in dire situation is because we been TOLD that there is a god at young age, its hard to get rid of that.

Imagine, in couple of 100 years, the god disappears from human mind, people would not "turn to god" anymore, they would do whatever they can to survive the situation.

reply to post by sheepslayer247


I dispute that actually. Have you ever even seen little kids? They smack each other, steal each other's toys, etc, until they get yelled at enough(if they are lucky enough to have parents that give a crap) to know it's probably not a good idea.

Morality is learned, first from your parents, then as you grow older and go to indoctrination camp, I mean school, from society constructs. The difference is, morality learned from a bible thumper, it's wrong, because god will toss you in hell. Morality learned from an athiest, it's wrong because "insert secular logic here". Morality learned from a hippy, it's wrong, and karma will bite you in the ass for it. Etc.

I think morality is for the most part independent of a belief system. Religion has the guise of dictating morality, but I think the majority of religious folk would still be moral without their religion - I guess meaning morality is more innate than learned. The religious cling to their religion mainly because of fear - fear of the unknown - not to remain moral, despite what they're taught or what they might actually say or think. To me, morality comes down to one thing - empathy and understanding (ok, maybe that's 2 things). Most immoral people (and we might want to define what "moral" actually means, btw) don't, imho, possess either of those two traits.

Oh, and full disclosure - I'm an atheist.

ETA - there are plenty of "immorals" throughout the belief spectrum - if we could look at numbers, I wonder if there'd be any correlation at all between belief and morality.

reply to post by PerfectAnomoly


But, since we are at the subject...I think the majority of the religious population mostly believe in God out of fear of their own mortality. Having no God, means no paradise, no afterlife...the end....in their minds of course. Believing in God gives hope to those that are unable grasp the mortality of the body.

Those that feel lack of their own reason or inner guidance will always turn to the authority to lead them and show them the "truth". That's where it all goes haywire...enter manipulation....don't mind if I do, thank you.


Now, I'm not against the idea of God or Intelligent creator if you will, I just feel that none of us knows anything about him.

reply to post by 11235813213455


Don't agree.

When chips are down...I turn to myself.

I repeat the mantra...I can..I will, I must. If I can't, nobody will do it for me...that's my strength.

Originally posted by luciddream

Originally posted by 11235813213455
All things being equal if my life were in someone else's hands I wouldn't be trusting the atheist.

Sure the atheist can walk the walk and talk the talk when they aren't faced with a dire situation and everything is going smoothly. But when the chips are down where do they turn for their strength? That's when it really counts and the atheist just doesn't have it.

They'll fold quicker than the theist.

Actually, the reason we "turn to god" in dire situation is because we been TOLD that there is a god at young age, its hard to get rid of that.

Imagine, in couple of 100 years, the god disappears from human mind, people would not "turn to god" anymore, they would do whatever they can to survive the situation.

I strongly disagree with that statement but I tell you what. Go ahead and try to hold true to your word.

reply to post by 11235813213455


Hang on....

That is just the same argument re-packaged...

You are now trying to say that a person cannot have strength of conviction, or inner strength to cope with idfficult times without religion...

I'll try to answer your question... where do atheists turn in dire situations?....

We turn to reason, and love, and personal realationships, and truth... and the conviction that even though we don't have a "higher purpose" so to speak, we can still live a positive and fulfilling life...

I would much rathe trust an atheist in this situation....

For instance... would you go to a religious person if you had doubts regarding abortion... or marriage/commitment to your homosexual partner?

would you go to a religious person if you had been raped and wanted to abort?

There are many other pertinent examples...

PA