God’s law versus secular law. Which is moral?

reply to post by Greatest I am


Yes, this. This must be one reason I'm having trouble keeping friends and relationships. I totally do like the idea of starting a church with updated values, by the way.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


ha ha ha! and i'm sure your a strict observer of the 'other' commandments laid out in Exodus!!!
hope yer not eating pork chops when your reading this,or you'll go to hell!

reply to post by Greatest I am


Indded!!! I guess god got tired of waiting around assuming the humans would worship him as their diety,(without telling people 'he' even existed!),so he had to come down and 'show' people who he was!
thats why he is such an angry god,he hates to leave the house!!!

Originally posted by reficul
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

ha ha ha! and i'm sure your a strict observer of the 'other' commandments laid out in Exodus!!!

hope yer not eating pork chops when your reading this,or you'll go to hell!

Christ fulfilled the law as a kinsman redeemer. I am under a new covenant of faith. If you refuse faith, then yes, you are still under the law and enslaved to the lord of sin and death. No need for law when Love is in your heart. Law is for criminals.

Originally posted by watchitburn
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

My mind gets plenty of work.
I just have no interest in society or it's values.

I could pose the same argument back to you. You have settled on the easy way, choosing to follow beliefs and morals that others have already decided are best for you. You have chained yourself these beliefs, and limit your growth.

I choose to let my mind be free of any restraints, free in ways that scare others.

LOL.

You have settled on the easy self-serving way, choosing to follow beliefs and morals that others have already decided are best for you.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by LittleByLittle

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by LittleByLittle
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

There is only one law from god that I know is true and that is the law of ONE. All is ONE.

All other laws humans create are either views or something that is derived from the law of ONE or both. The things that are derived from law of ONE are from my point true, the ones that are views I can decide if I wanna follow or not.

The golden rule is a derived truth based on the law of ONE.

edit on 15-11-2012 by LittleByLittle because: Spellchecking

If a derivative then it is a multi-layered law of many laws. How many and what are they?
How are they enforced?

What is the punishment from God if I break that golden rule law and how does that punishment compare to the other punishment for the other laws that you have not named.

Further, are they more or less moral than secular law which is really the question?

Regards
DL

Should you really follow laws just because of punishment? Should you not follow them because it is the right/symbiotic thing to do for everything that is? If you cannot behave yourself and limit your wants when they create missary/parasitism on this level, then how can you be let up in the higher levels where you can create even more missary if you are not careful because you are not so limited as you are here.

Reciprocity is fair play.

There was a questioned posed. Give your answer before asking more questions or we will just be talking past each other.

Again. The question asks which law is more moral.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by adjensen
During the Great Terror of 1937-1938, it was estimated that 1,500 people were shot every day, and those are real, identifiable people, not the vague historical stories of the Old Testament Jews that you hate so much.

Defend the morality of that!

As soon as you defend God's genocide of Noah's day.
Those included non-working innocent babies and children.

So you duck the horrors of 20th Century secular genocide by justifying them in Hebrew myths you don't believe anyway? Nice morality, a perfect example to further your cause.

Do you want a pissing contest or would you like to give an intelligent answer to the O P for the countries we live in?

I cited you a secular law that was used to kill millions, and asked you to defend the morality of that.

And I sited a God law that was used to kill billions if not trillions if you count all the animals.

We are here to compare. Not defend.

Do so and we can proceed. If not. Hide your head back in the bible and it's laws that you cannot defend.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by BadBeast
Law has nothing whatsoever to do with morality anyway, whether it's made by Man, or alleged to have been made by God.

One liners are so unhelpful.

So what are laws if not a representation of a nation's moral position?
What do laws have to do with if not morality?

Regards
DL

Originally posted by darkbake
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

Yes, this. This must be one reason I'm having trouble keeping friends and relationships. I totally do like the idea of starting a church with updated values, by the way.

edit on 17-11-2012 by darkbake because: (no reason given)

www.churchoffreethought.org...

Regards
DL

Originally posted by reficul
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

Indded!!! I guess god got tired of waiting around assuming the humans would worship him as their diety,(without telling people 'he' even existed!),so he had to come down and 'show' people who he was!
thats why he is such an angry god,he hates to leave the house!!!

That and Jesus took over with his ----- only through me.

He retired the old man and the holy spook.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

Originally posted by reficul
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

ha ha ha! and i'm sure your a strict observer of the 'other' commandments laid out in Exodus!!!

hope yer not eating pork chops when your reading this,or you'll go to hell!

Christ fulfilled the law as a kinsman redeemer. I am under a new covenant of faith. If you refuse faith, then yes, you are still under the law and enslaved to the lord of sin and death. No need for law when Love is in your heart. Law is for criminals.

edit on 21-11-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)

Faith, a firm belief in something for which there is no proof or facts, is for fools.

Hebrews 8; 7
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.

Regards
DL

reply to post by Greatest I am

excuse me to ask that but is it moral that you think you are the greatest (your username)
from the secular point of view humans are the greatest so in Humanism all the morality ends to humanity. nowadays from Humanism point of view homosexuality is good and it is some kind of marriage ! from Humanism point of view fornication was good and now societies are full of children without family and Aids is a big threat. this is the gift of humanism for humanity. relative ethics. this is true in every aspects of modern life from economy to military !!!
some may say so religions are the main cause of conflicts. and I say so can anyone name a really religious government in this world or throughout the history !? has humanity really based any religious government in this world !!? has humanity really respected the real religions !!!? I am not speaking about corrupted clerics, I am speaking about the true message of messengers ! how can we judge about life and ruling based on God's law while we have not experienced that throughout the history.
from Medieval to Modern is from minority corrupted Elites to minority corrupted Elites !!!

Originally posted by Greatest I am

I cited you a secular law that was used to kill millions, and asked you to defend the morality of that.

And I sited a God law that was used to kill billions if not trillions if you count all the animals.

We are here to compare. Not defend.

Compare what? You don't believe in God, and I'm not a Fundamentalist, so explain how the Ten Commandments have killed more people than secular laws, such as the one I cited, did in the 20th Century.

Or just admit that your premise is idiotic, as everyone else in the thread seems to realize.

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

Originally posted by reficul
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

ha ha ha! and i'm sure your a strict observer of the 'other' commandments laid out in Exodus!!!

hope yer not eating pork chops when your reading this,or you'll go to hell!

Christ fulfilled the law as a kinsman redeemer. I am under a new covenant of faith. If you refuse faith, then yes, you are still under the law and enslaved to the lord of sin and death. No need for law when Love is in your heart. Law is for criminals.

edit on 21-11-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)

Faith, a firm belief in something for which there is no proof or facts, is for fools.

Hebrews 8; 7
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.

Regards
DL

Hebrews 8

Also, consider the most important part of that verse:

7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8 But God found fault with the people and said.

-------The fault was in the people and not God. God continues to give. Developing faith is His job in and through us.

“The days are coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
9 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them,
declares the Lord.
10 This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
11 No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
12 For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”

Originally posted by maes2
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

excuse me to ask that but is it moral that you think you are the greatest (your username)

from the secular point of view humans are the greatest so in Humanism all the morality ends to humanity. nowadays from Humanism point of view homosexuality is good and it is some kind of marriage ! from Humanism point of view fornication was good and now societies are full of children without family and Aids is a big threat. this is the gift of humanism for humanity. relative ethics. this is true in every aspects of modern life from economy to military !!!
some may say so religions are the main cause of conflicts. and I say so can anyone name a really religious government in this world or throughout the history !? has humanity really based any religious government in this world !!? has humanity really respected the real religions !!!? I am not speaking about corrupted clerics, I am speaking about the true message of messengers ! how can we judge about life and ruling based on God's law while we have not experienced that throughout the history.
from Medieval to Modern is from minority corrupted Elites to minority corrupted Elites !!!

Quite the rant that does not speak to the O P.

We just had a recent government who was religious based. Bush said God spoke to him of Iraq. Did you like the results?

Oh wait, that is one of the corrupted religions and they all are except yours.

Go way fool and ignore the reality shown in this clip on how badly the world is doing.

www.youtube.com...

Regards
DL

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by Greatest I am

I cited you a secular law that was used to kill millions, and asked you to defend the morality of that.

And I sited a God law that was used to kill billions if not trillions if you count all the animals.

We are here to compare. Not defend.

Compare what? You don't believe in God, and I'm not a Fundamentalist, so explain how the Ten Commandments have killed more people than secular laws, such as the one I cited, did in the 20th Century.

Or just admit that your premise is idiotic, as everyone else in the thread seems to realize.

Who has stated that they would vote to live under God's laws?
Would you be that idiotic?

Regards
DL

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

Originally posted by reficul
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

ha ha ha! and i'm sure your a strict observer of the 'other' commandments laid out in Exodus!!!

hope yer not eating pork chops when your reading this,or you'll go to hell!

Christ fulfilled the law as a kinsman redeemer. I am under a new covenant of faith. If you refuse faith, then yes, you are still under the law and enslaved to the lord of sin and death. No need for law when Love is in your heart. Law is for criminals.

edit on 21-11-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)

Faith, a firm belief in something for which there is no proof or facts, is for fools.

Hebrews 8; 7
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.

Regards
DL

Hebrews 8

Also, consider the most important part of that verse:

7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8 But God found fault with the people and said.

-------The fault was in the people and not God. God continues to give. Developing faith is His job in and through us.

“The days are coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
9 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them,
declares the Lord.
10 This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
11 No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
12 For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”

edit on 26-11-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-11-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)

A new covenant does not negate the old.

Psalm 89 ;34 My covenant I will not break,
Nor alter the word that has gone out of My lips.

Deuteronomy 32:4
He is the Rock, his work is perfect:

Strange that you have God, who creates only perfection, for his pleasure, would be displeased with what his perfect pleasing creations do.

We both know that that you word contradicts itself all over the place.

Shall we thump away at and past each other or do you want to actually discuss the O P?

--------------------------------

Perhaps if you knew when Rome created your bible it would make a change in your useless thumping.

I will add these clips to the mix for your consideration. They show who put what in Jesus' mouth and how Christianity has been manipulated. The first which is part of the second speaks to my Gnostic Christian label and the second shows my view of religions overall and the Noble Lie that I think we and our governments should rescind. The third clip speaks to the reason that religions were invented in the first place as it shows why social control was required for city states that had to deal with the reality of finite resources. I see these city states as led by a timocratic king who through the religion that he would have created, also realized that there had to be a tyrannical part to his benevolent duty and created a religion to be just that.

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

I see the King/God as having to have the morals shown in the Haigt clip.

blog.ted.com...

He would have to create his religion as expressed through his high priest/tyrant who would live by the first commandment of God, place no one above me as the enforcer of his King/God's rules and laws while still obeying his King. The larger Roman system would later assume the same system through the Noble Lie. First through the Flavian and later through Constantine.

www.simchajtv.com...

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by Greatest I am

I cited you a secular law that was used to kill millions, and asked you to defend the morality of that.

And I sited a God law that was used to kill billions if not trillions if you count all the animals.

We are here to compare. Not defend.

Compare what? You don't believe in God, and I'm not a Fundamentalist, so explain how the Ten Commandments have killed more people than secular laws, such as the one I cited, did in the 20th Century.

Or just admit that your premise is idiotic, as everyone else in the thread seems to realize.

Who has stated that they would vote to live under God's laws?
Would you be that idiotic?

Given the choice of living under Christ's Two Commandments, or under the secular law of the Soviet Union, only an imbecile would choose the latter. But you're throwing your hat into that ring, eh?

reply to post by Greatest I am

Strange that you have God, who creates only perfection, for his pleasure, would be displeased with what his perfect pleasing creations do.

We both know that that you word contradicts itself all over the place.

Are you saying that free will and the eventuality for evil were now part of God's design? I think that free will necessitates the result. Communication is the result you get in this life and I would expect that God knows this. We are rising. The fact that we can rise or fall depends on God and is not mutually exclusive to us. It's a team effort with the Spirit. God creates perfection, yet getting there requires the gift to be earned along the way. Nothing can be given except what is earned. God gives and receives and so do we. Like God, we must earn what is given from work and labor. Suffering is either a result of what is taken or the cause of what is earned. We cannot earn salvation.

Please provide contradictions. All paradoxes can be resolved and it may be possible you misunderstand my point of view. I do not see contradictions in my view as my view is Biblical. As I stated, a contradiction is merely a misunderstood paradox. If you think I misunderstand, you can share your view. No need to throw insults around.

reply to post by Greatest I am

Shall we thump away at and past each other or do you want to actually discuss the O P?

--------------------------------

Perhaps if you knew when Rome created your bible it would make a change in your useless thumping.

I will add these clips to the mix for your consideration. They show who put what in Jesus' mouth and how Christianity has been manipulated. The first which is part of the second speaks to my Gnostic Christian label and the second shows my view of religions overall and the Noble Lie that I think we and our governments should rescind. The third clip speaks to the reason that religions were invented in the first place as it shows why social control was required for city states that had to deal with the reality of finite resources. I see these city states as led by a timocratic king who through the religion that he would have created, also realized that there had to be a tyrannical part to his benevolent duty and created a religion to be just that.

No need to trumpet your view of the accuracy or inaccuracy of theology if you doubt the Bible to begin with. Just say you think it is not true and I'll continue sticking to what it says. I do not see the paradox and inaccuracy you seem to see. I assume you have not studied from a platform of faith or your eyes would be opened. As I said before, if you have a context to provide to show an error in my theology, don't use the Bible if you do not adhere to its accuracy. You are contradicting yourself in the process. You cannot embrace it and then state its inaccuracy in the same breath and expect to be taken seriously.