God’s law versus secular law. Which is moral?

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posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 06:40 AM
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God’s law versus secular law. Which is moral?

Our literature is rife with criticisms of God’s laws denouncing them as immoral.
This is mostly done by non-believers and secular law makers and even many believers. The whole world has rejected the morality of God’s law.

Satan shall deceive the whole world. That is scripture.

Believers say that God’s laws are moral; yet very few believers are trying to push for adoption of God’s laws by secular governments.

If believers believed that God’s laws are moral, it follows that they would be trying to have them implemented by governments. Strangely, they do not.

Can a believer believe in God yet not believe in his laws?

No believer is living by God’s law.

If believers believe in God’s laws, should believers be living by them?

Law without punishment is impotent law.

Should believers demand that secular law use God’s punishments where those few laws are basically identical?

Regards
DL




posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 06:45 AM
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I'll just say this, I am more scared of dropping the soap in prison then I am of some fictitious sky god's wrath.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 06:46 AM
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reply to post by Greatest I am
 


I believe in God, but I also believe that organized religion's interpretation of God can be inaccurate. For the most part, I believe in secular humanism - but I think that secular law also has the potential to go to a dark place.

Also, one of the main criticisms I have of atheism is that it seems like community is less of an aspect of it. If we were able to have communal atheism, I would join right away, as my relationships are an important part of my life.
edit on 15-11-2012 by darkbake because: (no reason given)
edit on 15-11-2012 by darkbake because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 06:46 AM
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Beliefs are dangerous, they cause wars, genocide, and atrocities. I don't believe anything.

Morals are and will always be relative to the situation at hand. It's more efficient to just have a few guiding principals.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 06:48 AM
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Well as 'gods' law was written by man for man to control man bit of a moot point if you ask me.

The worst thing to ever happen was for religion to hijack morality. Because it's obviously moral to kill someone if they dont worship the same sky fairy as you. or to kill someone becuase you think they're a witch or can i just say

INQUISITION. The church can go shove itself where the sun dont shine, purely on that one phrase



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 06:50 AM
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reply to post by Greatest I am
 


Laws are for those who break the universal law of love. Laws are not the problem. When the lawless rule, there is no justice in the land. Justice is the key to what the law does. Apart from justice, God engages justice. Either way, justice will happen. Suffering is something that is also universal. Either we suffer the results of sin or we suffer toward the goal of reward. Smoke and you get cancer. Work out in a gym and get more life. It's the direction here that matters. The same holds true for justice. Allow the thieves to go free and you experience justice from God as a result. Cling to justice as a cause and the thieves are regulated. Tyranny is the marker of a government lacking justice.

Galatians 3

23 Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Faith and truth set us free. Faith and love are the source of hope.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 06:50 AM
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perhaps the law of the god Shiva-the destroyer would be more to your liking!
oh wait,we are on ats,i forgot,we're only allowed to speak about christian gods here!

i do like the part when Shiva emerged from the ganges river and offered up to man some kind of plant that man could use to see thru the bull sh%$#^#it!!!



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 06:51 AM
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If people dont accept God why should they accept His laws.

Your argument is silly, even Christ stated to render to Ceaser what is Ceasers, effectively teaching Christians to follow secular laws as close as Christianly possible .
Paul taught we are to follow secular laws as close as Christianity possible as well, so if scripture interperets scripture the evidence is clear.
Nowhere in the Bible are Christians told or taught to dictate Christianity, to rule by power is not a Christian principle.
Share the Gospel, not enforce it.

Within a Christian church if a person refuses to accept Christian teachings they are asked to leave, not forced to accept the teachings.

Gods law stands irrespective of if it is obeyed or not. That law is what everyone will be judged on.
edit on 15-11-2012 by borntowatch because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 06:56 AM
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reply to post by Greatest I am
 


what are you talking about please ???
God's law ?, what is it? where can I see this law ??

sorry but all laws, "god's" or human's or whatever are invented by humans for humans

and what is the punishment by God exactly ? do you mean if somebody has an accident and die, is God's punishment for something somebody has done ???
doesn't work like that

oh... I think I know what you mean... you mean those written words in some books like the Bible or the Koran ?
think who has written them... people! of course they claim to have spoken to god, I say is an illusions !!!



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 06:57 AM
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Originally posted by reficul
perhaps the law of the god Shiva-the destroyer would be more to your liking!
oh wait,we are on ats,i forgot,we're only allowed to speak about christian gods here!

i do like the part when Shiva emerged from the ganges river and offered up to man some kind of plant that man could use to see thru the bull sh%$#^#it!!!


Start your own thread, no law against it



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 07:01 AM
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reply to post by borntowatch
 


i got change for the 2 cents you just offered!



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 07:16 AM
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reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


ah enoch! how did i know you would reply to this!? good to see you are well!
but you must have known your adversary would soon be here!
yell me something about god's law.
after moses dictates the 10 commandments,with one of them being 'thou shall not kill',
why does moses tell the isrealites to kill every one in their way to the promised land?
maybe thats why the palastinians (philistines) are so pissed at isreal!



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 10:03 AM
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Here's some secular law for ya, DL:


58-1. "Counterrevolutionary" is understood as any action directed toward the overthrow, subversion, or weakening of the power of worker-peasant councils or of their chosen (according to the Constitution of the USSR and constitutions of union republics) worker-peasant government of the USSR, union and autonomous republics, or toward the subversion or weakening of the external security of the USSR and the fundamental economic, political, and national gains of the proletarian revolution.
In consideration of the international solidarity of interests of all workers, acts are likewise considered "counterrevolutionary" when they are directed at any other workers' government, even if not part of the USSR.

-- snip --

58-2. Armed uprising or incursion with counterrevolutionary purposes on Soviet territory by armed bands, seizure of power in the center or areas with the same purposes, or, in particular, with the purpose of forcibly severing from the USSR and an individual union republic, any part of its territory, or of breaking agreements between the USSR and foreign states, shall be punishable by--

the supreme measure of social defense-- shooting, or proclamation as an enemy of the workers, with confiscation or property and with deprivation of citizenship of the union republic, and likewise of citizenship of the Soviet Union and perpetual expulsion beyond the borders of the USSR, with the allowance under extenuating circumstances of reduction to deprivation of liberty for a term of no less than three years, with confiscation of all or part of one's property [6 Jun 1927 (SU No 49, art 330)].

-- snip --

58-7. The undermining of state production, transport, trade, monetary relations or the credit system, or likewise cooperation, done with counterrevolutionary purposes, by means of corresponding use of state institutions and enterprises or impeding their normal activity, and likewise use of state institutions and enterprises or impeding their activity, done in the interests of former owners or interested capitalist organizations, shall be punishable by--

measures of social defense, indicated in article 58-2 of this code. [6 June 1927 (SU no 49, art. 330)].


Welcome to 1927 Soviet secular law... where laziness can be punished with a bullet to the head. Along with dozens of other offenses. Soviet Article 38.

During the Great Terror of 1937-1938, it was estimated that 1,500 people were shot every day, and those are real, identifiable people, not the vague historical stories of the Old Testament Jews that you hate so much.

Defend the morality of that!



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 10:26 AM
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reply to post by Greatest I am
 


There is only one law from god that I know is true and that is the law of ONE. All is ONE.

All other laws humans create are either views or something that is derived from the law of ONE or both. The things that are derived from law of ONE are from my point true, the ones that are views I can decide if I wanna follow or not.

The golden rule is a derived truth based on the law of ONE.
edit on 15-11-2012 by LittleByLittle because: Spellchecking



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 12:16 PM
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Originally posted by reficul
reply to post by borntowatch
 


i got change for the 2 cents you just offered!


Well we our got value out of you didnt we, suprised you had change



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 12:30 PM
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What is MORAL?

1. Pertaining or relating to the conscience or moral sense or to the general principles of right conduct. 2. Cognizable or enforceable only by the conscience or by the principles of right conduct, as distinguished from positive law. 3. Depending upon or resulting from probability ; raising a belief or conviction iu the mind independent of strict or logical proof. 4. Involving or affecting the moral sense; as iu the phrase “moral insanity.”

Read more: What is MORAL? definition of MORAL (Black's Law Dictionary)
acording to this? none of the above and all of the above are moral,lol,depends how you tlook at it. now,in that very last question, you wrote down demand and punishment,are they moral by any of the laws? a thin line to be crossing ,yet i believe moral goes out the door once its passed,by any law.
edit on 15-11-2012 by bumpufirst because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 12:49 PM
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reply to post by borntowatch
 


English is not your firs`t language is it!
i got your change from selling american food stamps for a hay penny!



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 04:16 PM
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reply to post by Greatest I am
 

would you say what you mean by secularism exactly ! secularism is a lie are you mean Capitalism, satanism, monotheism, Communism, Humanism which one !?



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 04:54 PM
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Originally posted by reficul
reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


ah enoch! how did i know you would reply to this!? good to see you are well!
but you must have known your adversary would soon be here!
yell me something about god's law.
after moses dictates the 10 commandments,with one of them being 'thou shall not kill',
why does moses tell the isrealites to kill every one in their way to the promised land?
maybe thats why the palastinians (philistines) are so pissed at isreal!


Answers.yahoo.com has a good reply on this:


The Israelites were God's judgment on the Canaanites for over 400 years of idoltry and sinful practices, such as human sacrifice, etc. In fact, the Israelites left Egypt when they did because it was part of God's prophecy to end the Canaanites time of grace. Their "iniquity was not yet full." Genesis 15:16. One of the reasons the Israelites had such strict laws was to keep them from falling into the sinful practices of the Canaanites.

It goes to show that God is not a kindly old man winking at sin. When he says it will bring punishment for sin, he means it. Fortunately, he offers free forgiveness and mercy in Christ, but if people are too stubborn to take it, then they get the wrath of God their sins bring. The moral of the story is, don't waste that time of grace.

The Pharaoh is also a good example of how God works with unbelievers on a small scale. Pharaoh kept hardening his heart against God until finally God said, okay, have it your way then, and made it so Pharaoh's heart remained hard. Typically, unbelievers want to blame God, but again, Pharaoh brought it on himself after repeated, personal warnings.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 06:52 PM
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Originally posted by DarkKnight76
I'll just say this, I am more scared of dropping the soap in prison then I am of some fictitious sky god's wrath.


When your home is ----

www.youtube.com...

You gatta take care of that soap.

Regards
DL





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