Woman dies after abortion request 'refused' at Galway hospital (Ireland)

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
Ah, and you are the one who decides when the "rules change"?...

Its not me that decides, When the baby is born then it gets a legal identity - of course the rules change!

Yes you are brainwashed, and easily influenced. your response about agreeing with Obama forcing people "your view on abortion" is a clear sign of this, not to mention the obvious fact that you are a control freak. You want to control others to think, and accept your views as your next response shows...

Okay

The Spanish inquisition?... Really?... In case you didn't know "leftwing atheists" have murdered more people in recent times than any other group...

Recent times eh? Yeah, lets just casually step over the last few hundered years of murder the church has systematically brought unto the world

For example the socialist/communist dictatorships which have forced people into leaving their religion, and have not been allowed to have any other point of view, exactly like you are doing with Obama's decision on "forcing" people to accept your view on abortion and making people pay for abortion when they are against it and see it as MURDER...

Evidence of your claim?

...
In sum the communist probably have murdered something like 110,000,000, or near two-thirds of all those killed by all governments, quasi-governments, and guerrillas from 1900 to 1987. Of course, the world total itself it shocking. It is several times the 38,000,000 battle-dead that have been killed in all this century's international and domestic wars. Yet the probable number of murders by the Soviet Union alone--one communist country-- well surpasses this cost of war. And those murders of communist China almost equal it.
...

www.hawaii.edu...

That number is not even covering many other murders done by leftwing atheists...


Your using governments who murder people as an example? Sweetheart, you know Right wing governments love abit of murder to yano?

Let's give another example on how leftwinger atheists have murdered people for being religious, or even for being capitalists...

...
What is the Red Terror?


The Red Terror[3] in Spain (Spanish: Terror Rojo en España) is the name given by historians to various acts committed "by sections of nearly all the leftist groups"[4][5] such as the killing of tens of thousands of people (including 6,832(6) members of the Catholic clergy, the vast majority in the summer of 1936 in the wake of the military rising), as well as attacks on landowners, industrialists, and politicians, and the desecration and burning of monasteries and churches.[6] News of the military coup unleashed a social revolutionary response and no republican region escaped revolutionary and anticlerical violence - though in the Basque Country this was minimal.[7]
...
Some estimates of the Red Terror range from 38,000(11) to 72,344 lives.(12) Paul Preston, speaking in 2012 at the time of the publication of his book The Spanish Holocaust, put the figure at a little under 50,000.

en.wikipedia.org...(Spain)

In about 2-3 months ATHEIST LEFTWINGERS murdered up to 72,344 people for being religious, or for being capitalists...

So not just for being religious then? So they weren't really JUST attacking religious folk but you're still going to try and pull the victim card anyway? Okay, gotcha.

Dorctors who perform abortions murder humans every day...

Matter of opnion.

... Tax cuts are not the same in ANY WAY to FORCING people to pay for the MURDER of babies/human fetus...

That still doesn't explain why religious institutions should be exempt from tax.

A paper is just a paper... Your birth certificate doesn't make you human...

Okay, next time you try and renew your passport, you tell em its just a piece of paper and doesnt mean sh!t

That wasn't a personal attack, you don't care for any human fetus, hence why I said your mother should have aborted you since you really have no regards for human life...

Yeah that's a personal attack, dont try and be snide about it.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse

 

You don't care for human fetus/babies, and you love to FORCE people to follow your viewpoints to the letter... Something leftwingers love to do...

You're the one making personal attacks but apparently im trying to force my view on you?

Like I said, IF what was said about this woman is true then those responsible should pay for their actions...

She actually wanted the baby but obviously you'd rather comment on a story you cant be assed to read haha

But how easily people like you devalue human life and are okay with the daily murder of humans, yet since in your mind "they are not human" it is okay to murder them, and the mayority of them are not aborted because of health complications, but rather because the woman doesn't want the child because "it is not convinient for her"...

All your ranting aside, who are you to decide what is best for the mother? Have you got some god given right to tell someone else how to live their life?

Originally posted by Maslo

Correct me if I am wrong, but as far as I know Obama's reform does not mandate Federal money to pay for abortions. The health insurance is paid by the employer, not the government. It just says the employer cannot discriminate you for your chosen plan (deny you coverage if it includes abortion). Because employer telling you that you cannot buy a health insurance plan you want would be a control freak, similar as if he said that you cannot buy other specific things with your wage. Once the wage is yours, it is yours, not employer's money.

Actually you are wrong in a couple things. Yes, Federal money cannot be used for abortions, unless it is incest or rape, but Obama is forcing private insurance companies to charge THE PEOPLE for abortion, even if you are against it, and the Obamacare law even states that the private insurance companies can only advertise the total cost of the premium, without disclosing that $1 is being used for abortions.

$1 abortion surcharge in Obamacare

As a knowledgeable pro-life source on Capitol Hill informed LifeNews, as authorized by Obamacare, “the final rule provides for taxpayer funding of insurance coverage that includes elective abortion” and the change to longstanding law prohibiting virtually all direct taxpayer funding of abortions (the Hyde Amendment) is accomplished through an accounting arrangement described in the Affordable Care Act and reiterated in the final rule issued today.

“To comply with the accounting requirement, plans will collect a $1 abortion surcharge from each premium payer,” the pro-life source informed LifeNews. “The enrollee will make two payments, $1 per month for abortion and another payment for the rest of the services covered. As described in the rule, the surcharge can only be disclosed to the enrollee at the time of enrollment. Furthermore, insurance plans may only advertise the total cost of the premiums without disclosing that enrollees will be charged a $1 per month fee to pay directly subsidize abortions.”
...

nation.foxnews.com...

The Hyde Amendment didn't allow for taxpayer money to be used for abortions, except in cases of incest and rape, but Obama and leftwingers found a way around this by forcing private insurance companies to charge a premium to people for abortion. In this way no federal money is being used to pay for abortion, however, they are still FORCING people, even if you are against it, to pay for abortions and contraceptives.

Yeah, $1 dollar doesn't sound like much, but it is not the amount that matters, it could be 1C and it would still be wrong in many ways...

Obama, and his fans don't have a right to FORCE people to pay for ABORTIONS, or even contraceptives of women who want to do this...

Many leftwingers claim that "it is the right of women"... But since when is it a "right for women" to FORCE EVERY AMERICAN to pay for the abortions of those women who want them?... That is not a right...

Hopefully Obamacare can be overturned.

Supreme Court Orders New Look at Obamacare, Abortion Funding

by Steven Ertelt | Washington, DC | LifeNews.com | 11/26/12 12:05 PM

The Supreme Court today ordered a federal appeals court to take a new look at the controversial Obamacare law and whether it unconstitutionally forces taxpayers to fund abortions and birth control, violating religious freedoms.

The high court ordered the 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals to consider the case of Liberty University, a Christian college that contends Obama’s health care law violates the school’s religious freedoms. A federal judge rejected the case and the 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled the lawsuit was premature but did not deal with the main points the lawsuit brought up.
...
“ObamaCare is the biggest funding of abortion in American history,” said Staver. “ObamaCare will for the first time require employers and individuals to directly fund abortion. This abortion mandate collides with religious freedom and the rights of conscience.”

www.lifenews.com...

I am not demanding that abortion should be banned, but rather that people should not be FORCED to pay for something which violates their concious.

If a woman, and her husband/boyfriend or one night stand want to have an abortion it should be the RESPOSIBILITY of that woman, and man who got her pregnant to pay for the abortion, or contraceptives themselves instead of taking away this PERSONAL RESPOSIBILITY, and puting it in the shoulders of everyone else...

However, I would really like to find out more about this case. If what the article says is true, then like I said those people are responsible for the death of this woman.

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc

You're the one making personal attacks but apparently im trying to force my view on you?

YOU are the one who agrees with abortion, and devalues the humanity of a HUMAN fetus, not me...

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
She actually wanted the baby but obviously you'd rather comment on a story you cant be assed to read haha

I read the story, and the sources are EXTREMELY biased so I have to question what is being said in those sources.

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
All your ranting aside, who are you to decide what is best for the mother? Have you got some god given right to tell someone else how to live their life?

The ones ranting that "it is your right to FORCE people to pay for YOUR abortions" is you... I said it for the 3rd of 4th time already... If a woman wants an abortion, it is HER responsibility...

I am not the one trying to tell you how to live your life... YOU, and people like YOU are the ones wanting to FORCE people to not only accept your views, but even to pay for them, which to people like me IT IS MURDER...

I wonder what you would be saying if the mandate was instead, for example, to pay for the death penalty of criminals, and you, and everyone like you would be FORCED to pay a premium to kill murderers, rapists, peodophiles and people who sell and give illegal drugs to minors, without any appeals, or waiting years for their sentences to be carried out, but instead that the sentences were being carried right away...

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
Its not me that decides, When the baby is born then it gets a legal identity - of course the rules change!

And those papers don't make the baby "human"... There are countries and parts of the world where children do not get any "papers" after being born... I guess they are not human according to you...

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
Recent times eh? Yeah, lets just casually step over the last few hundered years of murder the church has systematically brought unto the world

And of course, you are so naive as to think that the church has been the only one which did this hundreds of years ago...

You are OBVIOUSLY unaware that EVIL MEN AND WOMEN will use ANY EXCUSE to murder, and even torture other people...

Trust me, you have no idea of what you are talking about.

The Spanish , and Medieval inquisitions were wrong, however there are people these days who out of ignorance greatly exagerate how many people were killed by the Spanish and Medieval inquisitions... Just like people such as yourself, and out of ignorance, don't know that atheists have murdered as many, if not more people than theists...

...
If we add the figures, we find that the entire Inquisition of 500 years, caused about 6,000 deaths. These atrocities are completely inexcusable. These numbers are however, a far cry from the those used in the popular press by people who are always looking to destroy the Church. This is about equal to the number of war related deaths that have occurred in Afghanistan and Iraq in the 2 years since the US responded to 9/11.

askville.amazon.com...

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
Evidence of your claim?

Seriously?... You are also completely ignorant to the fact that Marx was an atheist, and he wanted to cull religion from socialist/communist societies?... Or that the great mayority of his followers like Stalin, Lenin, the castro brothers, and other leftwingers like Mao etc were all also atheists who banned religious freedom alongside every other form of freedom?...

Have you been living under a rock?...

Marxist‒Leninist atheism

Marxist–Leninist atheism (Russian: Марксистско-ленинский атеизм) is a part of the wider Marxist-Leninist philosophy (the type of Marxist philosophy found in the Soviet Union), which rejects religion[1][2] and relies on a materialist understanding of nature.[3] Marxism-Leninism holds that religion is the opium of the people, in the sense that it causes people to accept suffering on Earth in the hope of eternal reward, and therefore Marxism-Leninism promotes atheism and argues that religion should be abolished.[4][5] Marxist-Leninist atheism has its roots in the philosophy of Ludwig Feuerbach, Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel, Karl Marx, and V.I. Lenin.[6]

Marxist-Leninist atheism is not universally accepted by all Marxists. Some non-Soviet Marxists reject this anti-religious stance.[7]
...

en.wikipedia.org...

BTW, I was born, lived and experienced part of my life in Cuba, as a Cuban, and over there all forms of religion, and spiritual paths were abolished by the castro brothers like it was done in the U.S.S.R., China, and other such countries. Only in recent years did the castro brothers started allowing some religious freedom, and it is not being done because of the "goodwill of the castro brothers"...

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
Your using governments who murder people as an example? Sweetheart, you know Right wing governments love abit of murder to yano?

Governments which were anti-religious, and banned religions as well as other freedoms of expression because they wanted to FORCE their views on everyone just like you do...

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
So not just for being religious then? So they weren't really JUST attacking religious folk but you're still going to try and pull the victim card anyway? Okay, gotcha.

So, you want to claim that those ATHEIST LEFTISTS stopped being ATHEIST LEFTISTS because they ALSO murdered capitalists?... gotcha... well, not really... Just because those ATHEIST LEFTISTS ALSO murdered capitalists, this didn't make them any less ATHEIST LEFTISTS than they were...

There is an old saying... "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

People like you don't know much, if anything at all about the past. Hence people like you are bound to repeat the same mistakes others have done in the history of the world, such as not knowing what happens in a society, and in countries where people are/were FORCED to do the will of others...

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
Matter of opnion.

Not opinion...FACT... Just because YOU, and others like YOU want to DEVALUE the humanity of a HUMAN fetus doesn't make them any less human...

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
That still doesn't explain why religious institutions should be exempt from tax.

There are PLENTY of LEFTWING institutions that are exempt from taxes... WHAT THE HELL does that have to do with being FORCED to pay for your abortions?...

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
Okay, next time you try and renew your passport, you tell em its just a piece of paper and doesnt mean sh!t

I guess if your passport expires you are worth sh!t, and you are not human anymore according to you...

I guess all illegal aliens are not "human" according to you until they get their papers...

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
Yeah that's a personal attack, dont try and be snide about it.

Not personal attack, it is just fact. You devalue the humanity of a human fetus, like murderers devalue the lives of those people they murder.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

YOU are the one who agrees with abortion, and devalues the humanity of a HUMAN fetus, not me...

I fail to see how my agreeing with abortion forces you to agree with me? Please enlighten me.

I read the story, and the sources are EXTREMELY biased so I have to question what is being said in those sources.

BBC and the Guardian aren't exactly daily mail material...

The ones ranting that "it is your right to FORCE people to pay for YOUR abortions" is you... I said it for the 3rd of 4th time already... If a woman wants an abortion, it is HER responsibility...

Indeed but yet your still getting in a huff about it..
This woman wasn't looking to terminate her pregnancy but her life was at risk and the doctors refused to abort the baby because it had a foetal heartbeat, what do you say to that?

I am not the one trying to tell you how to live your life...

Calling me "brainwashed" humanity hating feminist kind of gives off the impression that you want to jump into my life and change how i think and feel... lets not be coy here.

YOU, and people like YOU are the ones wanting to FORCE people to not only accept your views, but even to pay for them, which to people like me IT IS MURDER...

Okay crazy, whatever you say

I wonder what you would be saying if the mandate was instead, for example, to pay for the death penalty of criminals, and you, and everyone like you would be FORCED to pay a premium to kill murderers, rapists, peodophiles and people who sell and give illegal drugs to minors, without any appeals, or waiting years for their sentences to be carried out, but instead that the sentences were being carried right away...

You just dont get it do you? I dont class having an abortion as murder, you do so you can move the goal posts as much as you like but your "argument" wont hold anymore water than it already does (very little btw)

But im tired of arguing back and forth the same points.

Have a good day sir/madam

reply to post by Kllyblvn


I am guessing the septicemia set in once the miscarriage commenced.

Edit: This happened at 17 weeks, during the second trimester. Most miscarriages occur during the first trimester apparently.
A D& C procedure is done after miscarriage not before, to make sure all the tissues are eliminated.

www.americanpregnancy.org...

It looks to me like the husband is in shock and hasn't admitted that sometimes even under the best care, things don't work out as planned. It is a sad story, but will be interesting to find out what the results of the inquiry are.

Even worse about this is the pro Choice media running with the story as a way to promote abortion.

Looks like there are not too many "best practices" for septicemia in pregnancy in the UK

Sepsis in pregnancy remains an important cause of maternal death in the UK. In 2003–2005 there were 13 direct deaths from genital tract sepsis in pregnancy, five related to pregnancy complications prior to 24 weeks of gestation and eight related to sepsis from 24 weeks of gestation, arising before or during labour. Sadly, substandard care was identified in many of the cases, in particular lack of recognition of the signs of sepsis and a lack of guidelines on the investigation and management of genital tract sepsis. Between 2006 and 2008 sepsis rose to be the leading cause of direct maternal deaths in the UK,

bestpractice.bmj.com...

This blog suggests that intervention should have happened as she was diagnosed as miscarrying and had developed septicemia. However, it seems that the Pro Choice activists ran with the story that she was denied an "abortion" because of Ireland's laws of protecting the unborn. I knew there had to be an agenda.

Irish law – and the Irish Constitution – prohibits the procedure of abortion of unborn babies in the womb but it does not prohibit evacuation of the womb where the process of a miscarriage has already begun – or where a baby in the womb has already died. Such procedures are regularly carried out in Irish hospitals. Miscarriage can, however, be wrongly diagnosed and surgical evacuation offered when the baby is still alive and healthy, as Breda O’Brien noted in an Irish Times op-ed last Saturday. One such case prompted an official inquiry two years ago in which 24 similar cases were examined.

What has been widely reported is that doctors denied her request “for an abortion” because they said that they detected a foetal heartbeat and that Irish law ruled out a termination. Further reports say someone told Savita that this was because “Ireland is a Catholic country”. That such reasons would have been given for delaying the inducement is considered extraordinary by medical and non-medical Irish people alike. But they are equally dismayed by what they see as the callous manipulation of this situation by the abortion advocates before even the most basic investigation of the facts is carried out.

The manipulation of the situation is seen by many to be blatant and premeditated. The Irish Times, which has been campaigning for changes to Irish law on abortion for many years, had this story for some days before publishing it. Within hours of the story breaking a large demonstration by pro-choice activists had assembled outside the Irish parliament building. An email has now been leaked – the source as yet unknown – showing that news of the story was given in advance to these activists. The e-mail, dated Sunday, November 11, indicates that the Irish Choice Network knew the story was going to break. The Irish Times did not break the story publicly until November 14th.

www.mercatornet.com...


Sad situation made worse by political activists.

reply to post by ldyserenity

it was the hospitals fault actually for both deaths...because they missed something obviously!

This may or may not be so. But then the pro Choice activists in Ireland and across the world have decided before even the investigation that the cause of death was because the hospital refused to abort the baby. This tragic story is being used as a political football. Please see my post where emails were found to have been sent prior to the official release of the news story so that activists could organize a protest.

And then there's this

For Ms Uí Bhriain it is “outrageous” to suggest that Catholic teaching would prevent proper treatment for a pregnant woman. “Neither the ethos of the Catholic Church nor the pro-life laws of Ireland would prevent any woman from receiving all the treatment she requires in order to preserve her life,” she said, adding that “abortion doesn’t cure septicaemia and isn’t a treatment for miscarriage.”

www.mercatornet.com...