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Woman dies after abortion request 'refused' at Galway hospital (Ireland)

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posted on Nov, 18 2012 @ 02:26 AM
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Originally posted by MonkeyFishFrog
reply to post by shelookslikeone
 


So by your logic it is more humane for a child to die a slow death of starvation and disease? That is sadism.



If every child that was raised in a mud hut living on scraps died of starvation and disease we would be an extinct species. Stupid people starve.



Where do men fit in here? As far as I know, a woman can't get pregnant on her own. How do you propose we enforce them to take financial and social responsibility for their children without burdening the already overloaded judicial system?


You cannot force a man to raise a child the same way that you cannot force a woman to give birth to one. It's your right to abort your child because it's your body? How about it's your responsibility to use birth control because it's your body? Too extreme? It's not hard to get on the pill or buy a box of condoms.



Women are already below the poverty line. How much farther would you like them to go? Chances are, they're already there.

Do you stop and think that maybe part of the reason why the woman asked for an abortion in the case of this thread was because of the emotional and psychological trauma of having a dying (dead) baby inside of her was too much to bear?

Now, you admit that you got heated because of a post you read. Why not give the benefit of the doubt of the OP that maybe she felt the same way, especially after reading some of the posts on this thread. I think near the beginning there were quite a few posters saying that the woman deserved it or it was karma. You can see why some of us would so staunchly argue against those kinds of mentalities in such a tragic situation.


If a woman's life is ever in danger during a pregnancy it should be up to her (since it's her life we're now talking about) if she wants to continue or not. On that point, I agree a full 100%. But, there are people, like the OP, that just seem to take pride and JOY in the fact that women can use abortion as birth control. As if it some how empowers women to kill their unborn children. This sickening mentality is what pisses me off.
edit on 18-11-2012 by shelookslikeone because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 18 2012 @ 04:16 AM
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Originally posted by shelookslikeone
reply to post by SearchLightsInc
 


Why do you hate men so much? I'm sincerely curious. Are you one of those feminists that thinks all men should be wiped off the planet or something? I just can't wrap my head around why you have such seething hatred for not only the opposite sex, but it would seem children as well.

I'm sorry that you've been brainwashed into hating your own species. As if this kind of hatred some how empowers women. It's a mental illness and I hope you receive treatment.

I read her post and she never said she hated men and that she wanted them wiped out.. she never said she hated children either and accusing her of having a mental illness is nothing less than a personal attack. It's also offtopic.

So much for the post from admin asking people to be civil.



posted on Nov, 18 2012 @ 06:23 AM
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Originally posted by shelookslikeone
reply to post by SearchLightsInc
 


Why do you hate men so much?


I dont hate men, i do however dislike men that speak misogynistic about women and pregnancy, like it is their male right to dictate the terms over her body. I think its highly ignorant to assume that because he put in a few minuets and managed to knock her up, he has the right to dictate whether the pregnancy goes ahead or not. Its laughable.

Why do you hate women having control over their own bodies?


I'm sincerely curious. Are you one of those feminists that thinks all men should be wiped off the planet or something?


We'll, im not a feminist and the fact that you think i am one just because i support a women's right to have control over her own body really shows how incapable you are of comprehending people and their stances. Im conservative on crime and liberal on prostitution



I just can't wrap my head around why you have such seething hatred for not only the opposite sex, but it would seem children as well.


That's because you're completely misinterpreting my posts so of course things aren't going to add up. For example, by your logic:

*I am pro-choice, therefore:*
- I hate men
- I am a feminist.
- I hate children (lol)

Three generalization's you've made about me without any actual evidence to support what you're thinking.


I'm sorry that you've been brainwashed into hating your own species.


Im sorry that there are still things in life you dont understand, like the fact that you dont have a right to control a woman's body whether she is carrying your child or not.


As if this kind of hatred some how empowers women. It's a mental illness and I hope you receive treatment.



Lawl, of course, you cannot challenge my argument logically so you tell me i have a mental illness, another trick men have used for quite a while - Like back in 1800's when a man could have his wife locked up in a mental institution because she didnt want children.

You obviously dont have a care in the world for human beings who are already here, living and breathing. I feel sorry for you.



posted on Nov, 18 2012 @ 09:59 AM
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Closing for a short time to allow members to read the following:


Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe

ATTENTION~~~~



Please discuss the topic in a civil manner.
Those who cannot ....there will be consequences.

You are responsible for your own posts.

We expect civility and decorum within all topics - Please Review This Link.

Terms and Conditions of Use--Please Review



posted on Nov, 19 2012 @ 04:45 AM
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Originally posted by kaylaluv

Your arguments aren't working.
...


wow... in actuality your arguments are the ones that don't work, and make no sense... You have a very...skewed way of thinking...

In "abortion" the mother is not just "giving up the fetus... She is KILLING IT...

If a mother abandons a child to the streets, she is condemning that child to most certainly death, if not worse...



edit on 19-11-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 19 2012 @ 04:50 AM
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Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
...
Why do you hate women having control over their own bodies?


First of all a fetus is NOT your body...

Second of all, if YOU want to have an abortion it should be YOUR responsibility, but these days the "pro-choice crowd" want to FORCE everyone else who disagrees with them to pay for the murder of human fetus/children...

How in the world is a fetus your body?... It isn't... It is a VERY DIFFERENT developing human being, like you are a different human being from your mother, who needs to be inside your body to survive, just like a baby needs motherly love, and care otherwise it would not survive...



posted on Nov, 19 2012 @ 04:52 AM
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Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
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You obviously dont have a care in the world for human beings who are already here, living and breathing. I feel sorry for you.


Do you care at all for the developing HUMAN being that is a fetus?... Apparently not... I feel a lot more sorry for you, for your indifference, and your devaluing of innocent human lives...

You shouldn't be the one to tell others that they don't care for human beings when you are so indifferent to INNOCENT developing HUMAN beings...

BTW, I am not saying that abortion should be banned, however it is wrong, it is MURDER, but if YOU want to do it, it should be YOUR sole responsibility...

edit on 19-11-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 19 2012 @ 06:48 AM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


Do you care that this thread actually has a specific topic thats not JUST about abortion?
It's about a woman who was miscarrying and who was in agony.. the hospital refused to abort it (despite saying it would not survive anyway) and so the woman died. Do you have an opinion related to the actual topic?



posted on Nov, 19 2012 @ 10:59 AM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
...
Why do you hate women having control over their own bodies?


First of all a fetus is NOT your body...


Its living off of MY body. It cannot survive without me so as far as im concerned, im the one laying down the rules here.


Second of all, if YOU want to have an abortion it should be YOUR responsibility, but these days the "pro-choice crowd" want to FORCE everyone else who disagrees with them to pay for the murder of human fetus/children...



Tax payer wavers tax for religious organisations, i dont agree with it but there you go.


How in the world is a fetus your body?... It isn't...


I never said the foetus was MY body, but at the end of the day i have the right to decided whether i allow it to grow in my body or not. If i choose to not carry the baby to term, who are you to tell me differently?


It is a VERY DIFFERENT developing human being,


And at what point do you class it as a human being? Conception?


like you are a different human being from your mother,


The difference being i was actually brought to term and given a shiny new birth certificate documenting my existence on this planet.


who needs to be inside your body to survive, just like a baby needs motherly love, and care otherwise it would not survive...


The point remains, a woman should have the right to abort her baby, the decision is her's and no one else's.



posted on Nov, 19 2012 @ 11:06 AM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
...
You obviously dont have a care in the world for human beings who are already here, living and breathing. I feel sorry for you.


Do you care at all for the developing HUMAN being that is a fetus?... Apparently not...


I care more for the life that is already in existence. Im not ashamed to admit that i actually give a damn about a woman's right to her own body.


I feel a lot more sorry for you, for your indifference, and your devaluing of innocent human lives...


Can you play your violin a little louder because i cant hear you. I love how the word 'Innocent' gets thrown around so much in these threads. The use of that word is designed to emotionally destabilize the topic and take away from the actual fact of the matter - which is a foetus does not have a right to life as the mother does.


You shouldn't be the one to tell others that they don't care for human beings when you are so indifferent to INNOCENT developing HUMAN beings...


There you go with that word again, you're not jerking any tears mate.


BTW, I am not saying that abortion should be banned, however it is wrong, it is MURDER,


That is YOUR OPINION as its just as valid as anyone else's, but unfortuently, we disagree on this matter.


but if YOU want to do it, it should be YOUR sole responsibility...



Great, so, when can we get abortion legalized in Ireland?



posted on Nov, 19 2012 @ 11:06 AM
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O.o Hindu girl.This is interesting



posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 12:41 AM
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reply to post by riley
 


I was responding to the post of a member in specific, and my response was in no way off topic...

I have said it many times already, imo abortion is wrong, but I am not going to force any woman to see it my way. It is the choice of every woman whether she wants or not to abort, even if it is the wrong decision.

Most abortions are not done because the woman's health is at risk, but because the couple/lovers decided not to take precautions.



posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 01:04 AM
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Originally posted by SearchLightsInc

Its living off of MY body. It cannot survive without me so as far as im concerned, im the one laying down the rules here.


And so are newborn babies... Are you going to agree also with the "new" view of "a liberal society" as certain doctors claim that if the parents want they can kill their newborn babies even if he/she has no health issues?...

I am pretty sure that if you don't agree now, you will soon enough. People like you are too weak minded and get brainwashed easily by what the elites have in mind for the rest of us...


Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
Tax payer wavers tax for religious organisations, i dont agree with it but there you go.


This goes to show how little you know about this. There is an actual law that prohibits the use of Federal money, taxes, to pay for abortions with the exception of incest or rape. It is called the Hyde Amendment. So Obama, and the left, made up a new way to bypass this law by ordering private health insurance companies to charge people a premium to pay for abortions, and according to Obamacare the private insurance companies cannot tell people which insurance charges this premium.

BTW, those "religions" you are so against do not use any Federal money to MURDER people on a daily basis...

If, and only IF what this article says is true then those who made the decision should be held accountable for the death of that woman.


Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
I never said the foetus was MY body, but at the end of the day i have the right to decided whether i allow it to grow in my body or not. If i choose to not carry the baby to term, who are you to tell me differently?


Do you have a reading comprehension problem? or did you become blind when I said I would not force any woman to see it my way?...

If YOU want to have the abortion then YOU should pay for it instead of relying on other people, millions who oppose abortion, just because you want to do it...



Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
And at what point do you class it as a human being? Conception?


Like I have explained in other threads just like electrons exist in both particle/matter and wave/energy form when a new life starts it's soul is already within that developing being.



Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
The difference being i was actually brought to term and given a shiny new birth certificate documenting my existence on this planet.


So the birth certificate is what makes you human?...


Perhaps your mother shouldn't have brought you to terms since you so easily dismiss, and devalue human life.

BTW, a human fetus lives in this world... The human fetus isn't in some magical land waiting for 9-10 months until the mother is ready to give birth...



Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
The point remains, a woman should have the right to abort her baby, the decision is her's and no one else's.


And people shouldn't be forced to pay for abortions when millions of people are against it... Even if just one person was against it, that person shouldn't be forced to pay for abortion of other women...



posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 03:20 AM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
reply to post by riley
 


I was responding to the post of a member in specific, and my response was in no way off topic...

There are plenty of threads about abortion. This thread is about a specific case.


I have said it many times already, imo abortion is wrong, but I am not going to force any woman to see it my way. It is the choice of every woman whether she wants or not to abort, even if it is the wrong decision.

Most abortions are not done because the woman's health is at risk, but because the couple/lovers decided not to take precautions.

Well in THIS case a woman's health was at risk, an abortion was denied and so she died as a result. Whether or not most abortions are not due for health reasons is besides the point as this incident was due to health reasons. What do you think the doctors should have done in this case?
edit on 20-11-2012 by riley because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 08:22 AM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
And so are newborn babies... Are you going to agree also with the "new" view of "a liberal society" as certain doctors claim that if the parents want they can kill their newborn babies even if he/she has no health issues?...


Rules chance once your born in my eyes, if a baby is brought to term then it gains its right to life whether or not the parents want them.


I am pretty sure that if you don't agree now, you will soon enough. People like you are too weak minded and get brainwashed easily by what the elites have in mind for the rest of us...


Just because i have opposing opinions that dont suit your rosy view of the world doesn't mean i "weak minded" Perhaps the problem you face is that not enough people challenge your opinions and so you've become someone who only see's their side of the story. Ive never called anyone who was pro-life "brainwashed" and i think its pathetic that ive called such a thing twice in this thread by you and another member.



This goes to show how little you know about this. There is an actual law that prohibits the use of Federal money, taxes, to pay for abortions with the exception of incest or rape. It is called the Hyde Amendment. So Obama, and the left, made up a new way to bypass this law by ordering private health insurance companies to charge people a premium to pay for abortions, and according to Obamacare the private insurance companies cannot tell people which insurance charges this premium.


Good for Obama, well done i say



BTW, those "religions" you are so against do not use any Federal money to MURDER people on a daily basis...


Spanish Inquistion

Holy Crusades

Witch Hunting


Just a few things done over the centuries in the name of "religion" The amount of people religions have killed over the years is disgusting. They have been nothing but a blight on human society since there existence.


If, and only IF what this article says is true then those who made the decision should be held accountable for the death of that woman.


Should they really? As much as i feel there was medical negligence at play, i think the law also played its part. I dont think any doctor starts a shift with the intent of killing someone.



Do you have a reading comprehension problem? or did you become blind when I said I would not force any woman to see it my way?...


I never saw that post... did you make it on the 2nd page or something?


If YOU want to have the abortion then YOU should pay for it instead of relying on other people, millions who oppose abortion, just because you want to do it...


And explain to me again why religions should have tax cuts? Oh yeah, the west is democratic... apparently.



Like I have explained in other threads just like electrons exist in both particle/matter and wave/energy form when a new life starts it's soul is already within that developing being.


So (to answer my question bluntly without refer to other threads you've posted on) You believe life starts at conception? We'll of course our opinions are going to clash then.



So the birth certificate is what makes you human?...


Gives you a legal identity.


Perhaps your mother shouldn't have brought you to terms since you so easily dismiss, and devalue human life.


Lawl, personal attacks? Keep going, i enjoy watching you pointlessly dig a hole.


BTW, a human fetus lives in this world... The human fetus isn't in some magical land waiting for 9-10 months until the mother is ready to give birth...


Matter of opinion, and just so you're aware you are not judge and jury on this matter so please get off your high horse.



And people shouldn't be forced to pay for abortions when millions of people are against it...


And millions of people are for it **


Even if just one person was against it, that person shouldn't be forced to pay for abortion of other women...


And tax immunity shouldn't be given to religious organisations but like I've said, the west is democratic.



posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 08:35 AM
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Originally posted by liejunkie01
Ill say it again.

Don't worry.

The state knows exactly what is right for you and your family.



this wasn't the state, it was the church...this woman died because of what a mythical being said along time ago
please look up "dark ages" for the slaughter of innocent people. or more recently the salem witch trails in america



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 06:26 PM
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Originally posted by SearchLightsInc

Rules chance once your born in my eyes, if a baby is brought to term then it gains its right to life whether or not the parents want them.


Ah, and you are the one who decides when the "rules change"?...




Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
Just because i have opposing opinions that dont suit your rosy view of the world doesn't mean i "weak minded" Perhaps the problem you face is that not enough people challenge your opinions and so you've become someone who only see's their side of the story.


Yes you are brainwashed, and easily influenced. your response about agreeing with Obama forcing people "your view on abortion" is a clear sign of this, not to mention the obvious fact that you are a control freak. You want to control others to think, and accept your views as your next response shows...


Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
Good for Obama, well done i say



Originally posted by SearchLightsInc

Just a few things done over the centuries in the name of "religion" The amount of people religions have killed over the years is disgusting. They have been nothing but a blight on human society since there existence.


The panish inquisition?... Really?... In case you didn't know "leftwing atheists" have murdered more people in recent times than any other group... For example the socialist/communist dictatorships which have forced people into leaving their religion, and have not been allowed to have any other point of view, exactly like you are doing with Obama's decision on "forcing" people to accept your view on abortion and making people pay for abortion when they are against it and see it as MURDER...


...
In sum the communist probably have murdered something like 110,000,000, or near two-thirds of all those killed by all governments, quasi-governments, and guerrillas from 1900 to 1987. Of course, the world total itself it shocking. It is several times the 38,000,000 battle-dead that have been killed in all this century's international and domestic wars. Yet the probable number of murders by the Soviet Union alone--one communist country-- well surpasses this cost of war. And those murders of communist China almost equal it.
...

www.hawaii.edu...

That number is not even covering many other murders done by leftwing atheists...

Let's give another example on how leftwinger atheists have murdered people for being religious, or even for being capitalists...



...
What is the Red Terror?


The Red Terror[3] in Spain (Spanish: Terror Rojo en España) is the name given by historians to various acts committed "by sections of nearly all the leftist groups"[4][5] such as the killing of tens of thousands of people (including 6,832(6) members of the Catholic clergy, the vast majority in the summer of 1936 in the wake of the military rising), as well as attacks on landowners, industrialists, and politicians, and the desecration and burning of monasteries and churches.[6] News of the military coup unleashed a social revolutionary response and no republican region escaped revolutionary and anticlerical violence - though in the Basque Country this was minimal.[7]
...
Some estimates of the Red Terror range from 38,000(11) to 72,344 lives.(12) Paul Preston, speaking in 2012 at the time of the publication of his book The Spanish Holocaust, put the figure at a little under 50,000.

en.wikipedia.org...(Spain)

In about 2-3 months ATHEIST LEFTWINGERS murdered up to 72,344 people for being religious, or for being capitalists...


Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
Should they really? As much as i feel there was medical negligence at play, i think the law also played its part. I dont think any doctor starts a shift with the intent of killing someone.


Dorctors who perform abortions murder humans every day...



Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
And explain to me again why religions should have tax cuts? Oh yeah, the west is democratic... apparently.


... Tax cuts are not the same in ANY WAY to FORCING people to pay for the MURDER of babies/human fetus...




Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
Gives you a legal identity.


A paper is just a paper... Your birth certificate doesn't make you human...



Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
Lawl, personal attacks? Keep going, i enjoy watching you pointlessly dig a hole.


That wasn't a personal attack, you don't care for any human fetus, hence why I said your mother should have aborted you since you really have no regards for human life...

You don't care for human fetus/babies, and you love to FORCE people to follow your viewpoints to the letter... Something leftwingers love to do...

Like I said, IF what was said about this woman is true then those responsible should pay for their actions...

But how easily people like you devalue human life and are okay with the daily murder of humans, yet since in your mind "they are not human" it is okay to murder them, and the mayority of them are not aborted because of health complications, but rather because the woman doesn't want the child because "it is not convinient for her"...

edit on 27-11-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 10:08 PM
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(ontopic)


Something that has really been bothering me about this case is, despite the woman being told that the fetus would not survive..


Recounting her final days in UHG, he said: "Savita was really in agony. She was very upset, but she accepted she was losing the baby. When the consultant came on the ward rounds on Monday morning Savita asked if they could not save the baby could they induce to end the pregnancy. The consultant said: 'As long as there is a foetal heartbeat we can't do anything.'

"Again on Tuesday morning, the ward rounds and the same discussion. The consultant said it was the law, that this is a Catholic country. Savita [an Indian Hindu] said: 'I am neither Irish nor Catholic,' but they said there was nothing they could do.



There were exceptions in the law, and the "do no harm" thing.. and the "it won't survive anyway" thing. I am wondering if this was at least partially racially or religiously motivated as she was hindu. I am sure they didn't really need it pointed out over and over again that it is a Catholic country.
edit on 27-11-2012 by riley because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 05:51 AM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 





There is an actual law that prohibits the use of Federal money, taxes, to pay for abortions with the exception of incest or rape. It is called the Hyde Amendment. So Obama, and the left, made up a new way to bypass this law by ordering private health insurance companies to charge people a premium to pay for abortions, and according to Obamacare the private insurance companies cannot tell people which insurance charges this premium.


Correct me if I am wrong, but as far as I know Obama's reform does not mandate Federal money to pay for abortions. The health insurance is paid by the employer, not the government. It just says the employer cannot discriminate you for your chosen plan (deny you coverage if it includes abortion). Because employer telling you that you cannot buy a health insurance plan you want would be a control freak, similar as if he said that you cannot buy other specific things with your wage. Once the wage is yours, it is yours, not employer's money.



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 06:02 PM
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Originally posted by riley
(ontopic)


Something that has really been bothering me about this case is, despite the woman being told that the fetus would not survive..


Recounting her final days in UHG, he said: "Savita was really in agony. She was very upset, but she accepted she was losing the baby. When the consultant came on the ward rounds on Monday morning Savita asked if they could not save the baby could they induce to end the pregnancy. The consultant said: 'As long as there is a foetal heartbeat we can't do anything.'

"Again on Tuesday morning, the ward rounds and the same discussion. The consultant said it was the law, that this is a Catholic country. Savita [an Indian Hindu] said: 'I am neither Irish nor Catholic,' but they said there was nothing they could do.



There were exceptions in the law, and the "do no harm" thing.. and the "it won't survive anyway" thing. I am wondering if this was at least partially racially or religiously motivated as she was hindu. I am sure they didn't really need it pointed out over and over again that it is a Catholic country.
edit on 27-11-2012 by riley because: (no reason given)


See, i thought the clash of cultures/religious beliefs was important. Its not like this woman turned up specifically for an abortion but for her to loose her life when they knew her baby wasnt going to make it is just.. its defies common sense!





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