Woman dies after abortion request 'refused' at Galway hospital (Ireland)

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posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 12:37 PM
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Is there a different article that the people claiming an abortion would have saved her life are reading? Neither of the OP articles state that they found where the infection originated, and I don't see how an abortion would have cured an infection. Sounds like she needed an antibiotic, not an abortion. One says "She died of septicaemia and E Coli", the other just said septicaemia. An abortion would not cure or improve either.....
edit on Thu, 15 Nov 2012 12:38:02 -0600 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 01:06 PM
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Originally posted by Coppertone
This tragic event has somewhat been overtaken and diverted into a pro/anti abortion discussion which I believe is distracting from what really went on here.

In ireland you can have an abortion if your life is in danger, although the law is a little grey in this area. This type of medical intervention to save the mother happens on a regular basis.

What appears to have happened in this case, is that the medical team screwed up big time. Either they made bad medical descisions, or were not sure of their legal rights. either way they screwed up.

Women dying due to pregnancy related issues is extremely rare in Ireland.

I don't have strong opinons on the abortion topic, although I do lean toward people should be able to make thier own descision when it comes to such things.


All that said, Its a terrible thing to happen to this poor woman and her family, and I feel its a case of serious human error


You are correct that it was not the state of Ireland that prohibited the abortion. It was the bloody butchers and execrable toadies of the Catholic church that killed the poor woman. It was a Catholic hospital and they refused the procedure. It is time for the Roman Catholic Church to be aborted.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 01:12 PM
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reply to post by SearchLightsInc
 


My thoughts are don't get pregnant if you don't like the risk of death. Women have died in childbirth for thousands of years just for the chance to bring that life into the world and they knew the risks they were taking in the trying. Even in today's world with advances in science there is no 100% guarantee a woman will not die, hemorraghes happen and so do other complications. If catholics believe aborting a baby is murder and refuse to do so that is their right to follow their own beliefs and convictions. When the day comes when the world begins to force people to act against their beliefs and convictions or suffer recompense, then we truly have gone backwards into the dark ages.
edit on 15-11-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 02:36 PM
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reply to post by auraelium
 


I am new here, so I don't really know how to post a link nor a video but if you try googling criminals/psychopaths and their childhood...there are tons of article's and stats.

But, you are right about me being off topic. My thoughts do not relate with this spacific case but the topic "abortion" really frustrates so I couldn't control myself from posting.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 03:43 PM
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Because some of us do not believe an unborn child has any rights, who are you to dictate differently? And not all unwanted children come about because of the mothers "recklessness" - married women, women in long term relationships seeks abortions, that's just how it is. Why should THEY be denied? Should they simply just stop having a sex life because they don't want to risk pregnancy?


Can you hear yourself?

You want rights because some of you believe in such you question about dictating and yet you want to dictate your wishes on the rest of us!

In Ireland we rule by democracy, the people of Ireland have voted twice against abortion rights. If people dont like the democracy Ireland has then I suggest they move to a country where their abortion beliefs are practiced.

As your point in regards to woment who get pregnant who are married, There are many options available to women to stop them getting pregnant such as the pill, injections, patches, coils, condoms etc. Why do they need abortions?

I have already said I agree with abortions for certain medical conditions and rape cases, but if someone wants an abortion for other reasons then im sorry but its wrong.

Murder is Murder, just because the child is inside a sac in the mothers tummy shouldnt mean this child can legally be killed.


Do you read what you write?

Pro-choice is not dictating anything to anyone. Pro-choice is saying that we don't want to tell you what you cannot do. That is not dictating, that is the antithesis of dictating. Pro-choice is not telling anyone what they can and cannot do... that is not stopping you from making any decision you so choose, it is simply allowing other people to make their own decisions. You are fighting a tough battle with a flawed argument.

Pro-life: DICTATING that you cannot make a decision over your body
Pro-Choice: Freedom to make your own choice over your own body free of any outside influences

What is so hard to believe here? If someone is afforded the RIGHT to have an abortion, it does not take ANYTHING away from you or your life. In no way does it have any negative effect on your life if your neighbor has an abortion.

Thank god we have Roe v Wade. Thank GOD we reelected Obama and he will most likely make serious decisions about the Supreme Court which will ensure Roe v Wade does not get overturned in our lifetime.

This is a heated topic and as a man I question whether myself or anyone with male sex organs has the right to restrict anything about the birthing process. Can they make a national ballot question which only women can respond to? Is that sexism?
edit on 15-11-2012 by DoubleDNH because: I appologize I think I quoted the wrong person but I cannot find the one I meant to quote...



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 07:07 PM
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reply to post by TKDRL
 


Your posts makes more sense than most on here.

It is more logical that the sepsis caused the miscarriage, not that the miscarriage caused the sepsis. She more than likely would have died regardless of being allowed an abortion or not.

I call this grasping at straws.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 07:42 PM
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reply to post by newsoul
 


I admit, I could be totally wrong. But judging just from the info given in OP, people seem to be jumping to the conclusion of where the infection came from. The E coli struck me in particular as odd. I would wait before politicizing it like people seem to be doing, and saying that an abortion would have saved her life.
edit on Thu, 15 Nov 2012 19:43:00 -0600 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 09:02 PM
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reply to post by FissionSurplus
 

You make a good point about the race card, it's also possible if the baby was a girl they might have assumed that was the reason she wanted to abort it. Theres a lot of that happening even here in England when they can get away with it. I'm not saying that was the reason, just that it happens.



posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 12:17 AM
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Originally posted by F4guy

Originally posted by Coppertone
This tragic event has somewhat been overtaken and diverted into a pro/anti abortion discussion which I believe is distracting from what really went on here.

In ireland you can have an abortion if your life is in danger, although the law is a little grey in this area. This type of medical intervention to save the mother happens on a regular basis.

What appears to have happened in this case, is that the medical team screwed up big time. Either they made bad medical descisions, or were not sure of their legal rights. either way they screwed up.

Women dying due to pregnancy related issues is extremely rare in Ireland.

I don't have strong opinons on the abortion topic, although I do lean toward people should be able to make thier own descision when it comes to such things.


All that said, Its a terrible thing to happen to this poor woman and her family, and I feel its a case of serious human error


You are correct that it was not the state of Ireland that prohibited the abortion. It was the bloody butchers and execrable toadies of the Catholic church that killed the poor woman. It was a Catholic hospital and they refused the procedure. It is time for the Roman Catholic Church to be aborted.


Nonsence, It had nothing to do with the Catholic Church, illegality of abortion in Ireland was established in a referendum in which the nation voted to recognise the rights of the unborn child, thats called democracy, you probably live in a one of the more backward countrys like the USA which doesnt practice democracy or consult its people or allow them to have any say the making of its laws.
The top gynacologist in Ireland has already stated that an abortion would have been unlikely to have saved this womans life.



posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 12:53 AM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


So should've the men who decided to sleep with them. They should know the risks that by sleeping with her he might kill her by impregnating her.



posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 01:13 AM
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This may be redundant to you, if so, I apologize. I found two related articles of some interest:

Ms McDonald said that while the medical detail of the Galway tragedy was needed, she feared that “we will hide behind reports and inquiries and we will kick the issue down the road yet again’’.

She said a report or an inquiry was not needed to tell the House that the medical profession was left in a legal limbo. As a result, women’s health and lives were also left in limbo.

“It would be easy for us to point the finger at the Catholic Church, the medical profession, a particular hospital or the HSE, but the blunt truth is that the limbo exists because this House has failed to legislate.’’

www.irishtimes.com...

The family of Savita Halappanavar, the Indian dentist who died last month in Ireland after she was refused an abortion by hospital authorities citing religious grounds, blamed the Irish law against abortion and the negligence of hospital staff for her death

Speaking in New Delhi, spokesperson for the Delhi Arch Diocese, Father Dominic Emmanuel, said that while the Church was against abortion, the priority when both a mother and child were threatened should be to save the former.

"In case of such an emergency where the life of a woman or a mother is in danger, first of all they should take all the measures to save the lives of both the mother and the chil, and in case you cannot do it and in the last analysis, if nothing works, your intention should never be to kill the child. You are not aborting the child. You are only taking steps to save the mother of the child," said Emmanuel.

Despite a dramatic waning of the influence of the Catholic Church, which dominated politics in the country until the 1980s, successive governments have been loathe to legislate on an issue they fear could alienate conservative voters.

Hindustani Times
It appears, then, that the Catholic Church is not the cause of these sad deaths, the medical cause is unknown, and the legal cause is in the hands of the citizens of Ireland.

While people seem to be reluctamt to condemn Islam for the many stonings it has carried out recently, there seems to be no such reluctance to blame Catholicism. That's troubling.



posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 01:17 AM
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reply to post by charles1952
 

Chuck...this is very disturbing. To think that in the Year 2012 that this can still happen. If this was my Daughter I can tell you I would be taking her Death out upon the Church Leadership...as they are just Men of little conscience.
SAD! Split Infinity



posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 01:18 AM
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reply to post by SearchLightsInc
 


I find it Ironic because she wanted to end a life that resulted from her own actions, and ended up losing hers as well. If it isn't rape, deal with the consequences.



posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 01:28 AM
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reply to post by SplitInfinity
 

Dear SplitInfinity,

I'm sorry we're meeting in such a sad circumstance. I would be furious and in tears as well. You're are correct, it is very sad. I would probably be yelling at everyone that had any connection to Ireland.

Still, the Church's teaching is to save the mother, as mentioned in the article above. It does seem as though the doctor's were reluctant to run afoul of the law there. Also, as mentioned in the article, the Church fell out of political power thirty years ago.

I don't quite see it as the Church's fault, but maybe I'm biased. It does sound as though the laws will be re-examined. That may be the one good thing to come from this.

With respect,
Charles1952



posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 01:48 AM
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reply to post by charles1952
 

One thing I know about Ireland is the Catholic Churches Doctrines permeate everything in everyday life. All one has to do is look at the average number of children in an average Irish Family. My Irish Buddy who was in the Marines is one of 10 Children! His Dad is a retired USAF COLONEL.

No Birth Control used there! LOL! 10 KIDS! WOW! Split Infinity



posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 01:56 AM
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Originally posted by FissionSurplus
However, something about this story just sticks in my craw. The part where the woman is told "This is a Catholic country". Why would hospital staff say that? Perhaps because this woman was Indian, and not a native Irishwoman.

I'm usually the last person to bring out the race card, but this story seems have have a bit of racism to it. Almost as it they went out of their way to prove to this woman how "Catholic" Ireland is, by refusing to do anything for her because the fetus had a heartbeat, despite the obvious danger to this woman's life.

We get it. Catholics believe the mother is secondary to the child. Thanks for clarifying that, Galway Hospital.


Honestly, it could just as easily be the other way around, and the quote could be entirely part of the media's pre-planned propaganda effort to use a woman's death as a bloody shirt to wave in a push for abortion reform in Ireland. They gear up for a push, and then they wait for somebody 'close enough' to what they are looking for to die. Then when they have their dead body, it's go time.

That the media is using an Indian woman in Ireland as their martyr fits what would be optimal for just such a manufactured propaganda push.

While America avoids teaching Irish history on purpose to avoid importing the trouble and grudges of the 'old world' in our American 'new world' the Irish know their own history and are rightly sensitive about anything which could be taken as an effort to exterminate native born Irish people. Thus the propagandists have chosen an Indian woman for their martyr.

An awful, unsympathetic quote is hearsay and thus who could ever prove that nobody ever said that? Some will believe it because they prefer to, and some will never believe it was said because they prefer to. One thing is certain: today's propagandists have no qualms about using just such a tactic.

Your own awful quote at the end strikes me as a case of monkey see, monkey do. I think you maybe get on some level that it was propaganda and so you do the exact same thing to help the cause you agree with?



posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 02:04 AM
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Originally posted by SplitInfinity
One thing I know about Ireland is the Catholic Churches Doctrines permeate everything in everyday life. All one has to do is look at the average number of children in an average Irish Family. My Irish Buddy who was in the Marines is one of 10 Children! His Dad is a retired USAF COLONEL.

No Birth Control used there! LOL! 10 KIDS! WOW! Split Infinity


Clearly, your one example is the same for everybody there.

Not. Your post was offensive stereotyping.

en.wikipedia.org...


According to the CIA's The World Factbook, the country with the highest birth rate is Niger (at 51.26 births per 1,000 people). The country with the lowest birth rate is Japan, at 7.64 births per thousand. Hong Kong, a special administrative region of China, has a birth rate of 7.42 per thousand.)

Compared with the 1950s (when the birth rate was 36 per thousand),[10] the birth rate has declined by 16 per thousand. In July 2011, the U.S. National Institutes of Health announced that the adolescent birth rate continues to decline.[11]

Birth rates vary within a geographic area. In Europe as of July 2011, Ireland's birth rate is 16.5 per 1000 (3.5 percent higher than the next-ranked country, the UK). France has a birth rate of 12.8 per thousand, while Sweden is at 12.3.[12][unreliable source?]


Putting the issue of wiki's precision on controversial topics aside for a moment, the figures are close enough to demonstrate that a family with 10 kids is about as relatively rare in Ireland as it is in most western countries.



posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 02:17 AM
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reply to post by 11andrew34
 


Here you go...

epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu...

IRELAND IS NUMBER ONE!
Split Infinity



posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 02:26 AM
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reply to post by SplitInfinity
 

Dear SplitInfinity,

I like the way your mind works. Going for the European stats was a good move.

The numbers in the chart are a little hard to read but this is what I saw. (By the way, demographers think a birth rate of 2.1 is the number needed to keep population levels steady.)

Iceland 2.23
Turkey 2.10
Ireland 2.07
France 2.00
Norway 1.98
Sweden 1.94
UK 1.94

It seems as though, as in the rest of the developed world, large families are pretty much gone for now.

With respect,
Charles1952



posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 02:47 AM
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reply to post by charles1952
 

Hey Chuck! Nice to talk to you too.

Ireland's birth rate has dropped considerably over the past decade. If you look at the chart you will see that. Back in the 60's...Ireland's Birth Rate was out of control. People would have as many Kids as was possible as Contraceptives were Banned by the Catholic Church. Abortion is also Illegal. Split Infinity





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