Woman dies after abortion request 'refused' at Galway hospital (Ireland)

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posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 04:03 AM
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Originally posted by Todzer
reply to post by SearchLightsInc
 


They could use protection to ensure that they don't get pregnant, you have to be careful when you sleep with a partner and not have abortion as a get out of jail free card....



I agree that you shouldnt use it as a free exit but perhaps people should raise their sons better. Teach them to say no. But my point is that you shouldn't keep abortion illegal in some slack way of trying to control a woman's sexuality. Women have sex, they get pregnant and not all of them want to have the child, its not hard to understand is it? No one is forcing anyone to get an abortion, if you dont believe in them, dont get one. Stop trying to punish everyone else with your ivory tower beliefs.




posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 04:07 AM
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Originally posted by SearchLightsInc

Originally posted by bluloa

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc

Originally posted by bluloa
We certainly dont need abortion supermarkets like they have in the UK where teenage girls can behave anyway they want and the abortion clinic will sort out their little problems.



And still, there is a great emphasis on controlling a women's sexuality when we talk about abortion.

What makes me really mad is that women have to travel from Ireland to the UK in order to attain an abortion, things could be a lot simpler for everyone if we used our brains.


Actually you can travel to Northern Ireland now as an abortion clinic recently opened up there.

But in reply to your post, Why should women be allowed to kill unborn children, Is it the fault of the child that it was created by the recklessness of the mother?




Because some of us do not believe an unborn child has any rights, who are you to dictate differently? And not all unwanted children come about because of the mothers "recklessness" - married women, women in long term relationships seeks abortions, that's just how it is. Why should THEY be denied? Should they simply just stop having a sex life because they don't want to risk pregnancy?


Can you hear yourself?

You want rights because some of you believe in such you question about dictating and yet you want to dictate your wishes on the rest of us!

In Ireland we rule by democracy, the people of Ireland have voted twice against abortion rights. If people dont like the democracy Ireland has then I suggest they move to a country where their abortion beliefs are practiced.

As your point in regards to woment who get pregnant who are married, There are many options available to women to stop them getting pregnant such as the pill, injections, patches, coils, condoms etc. Why do they need abortions?

I have already said I agree with abortions for certain medical conditions and rape cases, but if someone wants an abortion for other reasons then im sorry but its wrong.

Murder is Murder, just because the child is inside a sac in the mothers tummy shouldnt mean this child can legally be killed.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 04:11 AM
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reply to post by SearchLightsInc
 


So it is all men's fault? Is that what you are saying? It is women's responsibility just as much as it is men's, that is a very bad way of thinking.... The point of what I am saying is that that people have to be responsible when they sleep together, they have unprotected sex and they run the risk of pregnancy or catching something, there should be a change in the laws to accommodate abortion for medical reasons or rape but to say that a unborn child has no rights is just plain psychotic and creepy, people have to realize that there is repercussions to their actions and not have abortion there to stop a child from interfering in their lives.....
edit on 15/11/12 by Todzer because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 04:17 AM
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Originally posted by bluloa
Can you hear yourself?

You want rights because some of you believe in such you question about dictating and yet you want to dictate your wishes on the rest of us!


No ones forcing you or anyone else to have an abortion, yet women are being forced to carry unwanted children to term because abortion is not a legal practice. All i see is how its okay for you to force your beliefs onto someone else.


In Ireland we rule by democracy, the people of Ireland have voted twice against abortion rights. If people dont like the democracy Ireland has then I suggest they move to a country where their abortion beliefs are practiced.



I cant argue this point and i agree with what you're saying - though i don't agree that you or the "majority" should have this level of control over an individuals right to control their own body.


As your point in regards to women who get pregnant who are married, There are many options available to women to stop them getting pregnant such as the pill, injections, patches, coils, condoms etc. Why do they need abortions?


Because accidents happen, that's apart of life. People dont always get things right.


I have already said I agree with abortions for certain medical conditions and rape cases, but if someone wants an abortion for other reasons then im sorry but its wrong.


But why should you have the final say on a decision that doesn't effect your life?


Murder is Murder, just because the child is inside a sac in the mothers tummy shouldnt mean this child can legally be killed.


First of all, the child grows in a womb and secondly, your definition of "murder" does not fit the definition of others. Im not even sure your definition of murder is in line with the legal definition. I'll check when i get home from work tonight.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 04:44 AM
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This is thread is almost a mirror reflection of how this tradegy has been side stepped into a broader pro life/pro choice discussion in the media.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. There is adequate law in Ireland to ensure that cases like this can and should be handled successfully by medical intervention. This case appears to be one of a failing in medical care, or pure circumstance.

I've certainly feel that the law should be clarified to iron out any grey areas.

For example in Irish law
- Baby dead, mother in real danger (termination will happen)
- Baby fine, Mother fine (termination is a no no)
- Baby alive but in trouble, Mother at risk (this is a kind of grey area)

There are no clear terms set down in law to cover the multitude of eventuallites here, or at what point the medics can intervene while both baby and mother are still "alive". Therefore its can be open to interpretation by the medical teams, and they may err on the side of caution, so they will not be guilty of a criminal offence.

herein lies the weakness of the current law.


the broader pro life/pro choice is something else entirely, as has been stated. The current law if based on the will of the irish people. America, UK, Saudia Arabia all have thier own particular laws and when you are in thoese countries, you abide by them.
edit on 15-11-2012 by Coppertone because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 05:46 AM
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If she would have received the abortion it would have been tantamount to abortion on demand.

I see it as a rare circumstance where she died but that happens. You can't save everyone that has a medical emergency.

I think the doctors were right in erroring on the side of caution and trying to save both the baby and the mother. It just didn't work out.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 06:39 AM
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I am surprised so many doctors will even do abortions at all, other than emergency situations. Kind of goes against the hypocratic oath. I don't know how an abortion doctor can look at themself in the mirror. Then again most doctors are also whores to the drug industry, so I probably shouldn't be so surprised.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 10:05 AM
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Originally posted by bluloa
Mis-information or what!

I live in Ireland, so lets clear the facts up.

Abortion isnt illegal in Ireland as such, Medical staff in hospitals can carry out abortions providing the mothers life is in danger.

In Ireland abortion rights have nothing to do with the church, we have held 2 referendums where the public decided to vote against abortion. No doubt we will have a third referendum soon. It is the democratic will of the people of Ireland that has so far decided against abortions for anything other than I mentioned above.

The Lady in question went to Galway University Hospital complaining about back problems, she was 17 weeks into her pregnancy. THe hospital admited her to a ward and it was explained to her that she had a good chance that her body wasnt going to carry the pregnancy full term.

On hearing this news the lady requested an abortion, It was explained to her that in Ireland it was illegal to carry out an abortion unless her life was in danger.

The lady requested again several times.

The hospital did a scan on the baby and it was found that the baby had a heart beat and because at this stage her life was in no danger the reuest for an abortion was refused.

A few days later the lady was taken ill and admitted to ICU, at this stage her body was miscarrying the child.

The woman died in ICU from Septicemia.

It was only when she was admitted to ICU that her life was in danger, at this stage she was loosing the child anyhow so an abortion would have been no good.

This is nothing more than a tragic incident that many people in Ireland are now using for their own gain to force through abortion rights that would be similar to the UK or US where people can simply walk of the street and get abortions.

For the record I do think abortion laws in Ireland need changing for certain reasons such as medical conditions and rape but I would be against a UK and US style of abortions for any reason. But I think its very disgusting that people in Ireland are using this poor ladies tragic loss for their own gain.
edit on 15-11-2012 by bluloa because: (no reason given)
edit on 15-11-2012 by bluloa because: extra
edit on 15-11-2012 by bluloa because: corrections.


Sorry i've put the full quote up as there are some glaring problems with the statement, I'll Bold them

If she was admitted to ITU, she was already in danger, not after she was admitted. She was already in Danger from the get go, how can a meical proffessional say, you wont be able to carry to full term and not class that as dangerous.

So she was then taken ill due to a miscarriage and yet youu are saying her having the abotion then would have been no good, perhaps they should have done it initially as asked. You dont suddenly get septeciemia and die.

All of this is caused by Irelands abortion laws, if the laws weren't in place she would have had a termination when she was informed she couldnt carry to term as she asked, then she wouldn't have got septiciemia and then died



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 10:26 AM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

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posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 10:36 AM
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She should of had an abortion because her life was in danger,which is law in Ireland.The doctors didnt think her life was in danger so they refused,therefore it was a case of medical failure on the doctors part. end of story.

Also take into account that the septisemia which she died from is very hard to detect in early stages, mothers can have no problems in pregnancy and have a healthy baby without any complications and then devolop septisemia a few days later and die, septisemia is impossible to predict its a sort of bad luck disease, you can devolop it from an ingrown toe-nail and be dead within 48 hours

I would also point out that in this womans home country of India the abortion law is similar to Ireland, and she may have also have been refused an abortion there under the same circumstances.
edit on 15-11-2012 by auraelium because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 10:45 AM
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reply to post by auraelium
 


If she had septicemia when she went in, and it went undetected, an abortion wouldn't have saved her anyways.....
You can get it from all kinds of things, even a urinary tract infection. You are quite quick to blame the doctors for following the law.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 10:46 AM
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Sounds like this is less of an abortion issue than it is a piss poor doctor issue.
They should be able to diagnose a septic infection and act accordingly.
Her life was in danger but the medical staff obviously weren't competent to handle the situation.
By law they should have seen it as life threatening and done the abortion.

I am strongly anti abortion but if the mother dies then the baby dies anyway. Taking the baby to save the mother is sometimes the only real choice and I don't know a single pro lifer that would differ on that.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 10:47 AM
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Originally posted by SearchLightsInc

Originally posted by bluloa

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc

Originally posted by bluloa
We certainly dont need abortion supermarkets like they have in the UK where teenage girls can behave anyway they want and the abortion clinic will sort out their little problems.



And still, there is a great emphasis on controlling a women's sexuality when we talk about abortion.

What makes me really mad is that women have to travel from Ireland to the UK in order to attain an abortion, things could be a lot simpler for everyone if we used our brains.


Actually you can travel to Northern Ireland now as an abortion clinic recently opened up there.

But in reply to your post, Why should women be allowed to kill unborn children, Is it the fault of the child that it was created by the recklessness of the mother?




Because some of us do not believe an unborn child has any rights, who are you to dictate differently? And not all unwanted children come about because of the mothers "recklessness" - married women, women in long term relationships seeks abortions, that's just how it is. Why should THEY be denied? Should they simply just stop having a sex life because they don't want to risk pregnancy?


And some people don't believe that Jews or the disabled should have a right to live...ahem Adolf I'm looking at you...The fact that you believe unborn children have no rights doesn't make it so.

It's extremely annoying that people bring religion into this debate. Like you have to be Christian to feel that killing an unborn baby is wrong.

To address the thread, this doesn't look like an abortion law issue. It may be malpractice, but mainly it's just a tragic medical mistake.
edit on 15-11-2012 by Ireminisce because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 10:49 AM
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Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by auraelium
 


If she had septicemia when she went in, and it went undetected, an abortion wouldn't have saved her anyways.....
You can get it from all kinds of things, even a urinary tract infection. You are quite quick to blame the doctors for following the law.


Yes and no, it seems she didnt have septisemia when she went in to hospital first, but maby some sort of tear or bleed which went undetected and later devoloped into septisemia.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 11:59 AM
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afterabortion.org...

Yet nobody makes a fuss when a woman kills herself because of an abortion, its always half a story if that



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 12:06 PM
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I don't know if any one of you looked at abortion in a different light. If you really spend some time to look into the life's of majority of the criminals and psychopaths, you can clearly see that they were raised by bad parents. They were probably had by a women who did not want to have that child in the first place.

Most people on ATS are always arguing about the responsibility of women and giving an unborn child a right to survive. Let me tell you from personal experience, do you have any idea how hard it is to grow up without love from your parents? Or how hard it is to jump from foster homes and shelters? I wished my mother aborted me so that I didn't have to go through the things I went though life.

Try to look at it from the child's point of view instead of forcing your opinion on others, also not everyone is fortunate enough to live in a rich developed country. Many people in India have children and through them in the dumpsters, just because they can't afford to raise them and the government will not do much about it as well.

There are so many children in Africa that spend everyday like living in a battle field without having nothing to eat and no one to look after. I have seen many children sleeping on the streets and begging for money to eat. They would not have to go through this if it was allowed and affordable for the mother to abort.

Why should the children suffer throughout their entire life just because some people want to be good Samaritans?

In my opinion, NOT ONLY ABORTION SHOULD BE LEGAL BUT IT SHOULD BE FREE IN ALL COUNTRIES.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 12:09 PM
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Originally posted by Livelovelaugh6
I don't know if any one of you looked at abortion in a different light. If you really spend some time to look into the life's of majority of the criminals and psychopaths, you can clearly see that they were raised by bad parents. They were probably had by a women who did not want to have that child in the first place.



You know this to be true or is it just your opinion? you have some statistics you can link to maby? and if so how does this relate to this case considering that the woman in question was happily married and was overjoyed to be pregnant?
edit on 15-11-2012 by auraelium because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 12:16 PM
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RIP Savita, your bright light shines for all those who walk behind you in this tragic world we live in. I pray your life saves many as you gifted them the ultimate sacrifice.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 12:18 PM
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reply to post by DeadSnow
 

She was in pain because she was losing her baby, so no karma involved.Just dumb religeon and laws.
She should have got on a ferry to England, thats what most girls/women do.
It's all very sad really.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 12:24 PM
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This is a very tragic story. I do think the doctors are guilty of malpractice.

However, something about this story just sticks in my craw. The part where the woman is told "This is a Catholic country". Why would hospital staff say that? Perhaps because this woman was Indian, and not a native Irishwoman.

I'm usually the last person to bring out the race card, but this story seems have have a bit of racism to it. Almost as it they went out of their way to prove to this woman how "Catholic" Ireland is, by refusing to do anything for her because the fetus had a heartbeat, despite the obvious danger to this woman's life.

We get it. Catholics believe the mother is secondary to the child. Thanks for clarifying that, Galway Hospital.





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