How Public Unions Bankrupted San Bernardino, CA

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posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 12:05 AM
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How Public Unions Bankrupted San Bernardino, CA

It looks like some super sweet pay rates and pension deals might be responsible for the California City of San Bernadino's recent bankruptcy !!

We all understand that pay scales and benefits are necessary to get the best and the brightest.

But maybe this City's problem has been the worst and deadliest corrupt politicians ?

Any members here live there or have friends or relatives in San Bernadino ?

Maybe this isn't as bad as it sounds ? Or is it the "new norm".


How does a city of 200,000 people go bankrupt? In the case of San Bernardino, CA, the answer is unsustainable pension obligations pushed by union-backed politicians.

San Bernardino declared bankruptcy in July, citing "an immediate cash flow issue," but the collapse has been a long time coming and was not the result of a single decision or mistake. Elected officials consistently chose to offer public-sector unions overly-generous benefits, both in terms of salaries and pensions, even as the tax base of the city was shrinking.

Between 1997 and 2010, the salary of a city firefighter doubled to just shy of $150,000. ............

How Public Unions Bankrupted San Bernardino, CA
 


Related Threads from last August:


San Bernardino, Calif., files for bankruptcy with over $1 billion in debts


Moody's warns of mass California municipal bankruptcies


Well.... What's Next ?





posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 12:15 AM
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Guess that is why they voted for tax hikes in California to keep the union money train rolling.

Typical rinse and repeat ideology.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 12:16 AM
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It is easy to blame the employee.

I blame the politicians. They probably had some secret back door deal that would grant over payment of benefits and wages.

There is no way in hell a firefighter should male 150,000 a year with full benefits
I appreciate everything they do but 3,000 a week is ridiculous.

The union bosses and the politicians should be held on charges of corruption and the pay scale needs revised.

These types of a-holes make everybody wanting fair pay and benefits look bad.

They are broke because of the corruption period. But politics as usual makes the working piss-ant look bad and take the fall.
edit on 15-11-2012 by liejunkie01 because: (no reason given)
edit on 15-11-2012 by liejunkie01 because: phone slelling sorry



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 12:29 AM
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Originally posted by liejunkie01
It is easy to blame the employee.

I blame the politicians. They probably had some secret back door deal that would grant over payment of benefits and wages.

There is no way in hell a firefighter should male 150,000 a year with full benefits
I appreciate everything they do but 3,000 a week is ridiculous.



How much would it cost for you to risk your life daily?
If less than $3000 a week to do so and be on call 24/7, move here and save us some money.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 12:32 AM
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reply to post by xuenchen
 


Dear xuenchen,

Funny how every city in America is claiming they are in trouble because of pensions. Not one city blames the problems on the loss revenue because of sales taxes and property taxes. Lets look a little deeper, during the boom times stocks and revenues rose in the whole country, the pensions rose in investments and they are allowed to only be 120% funded for three years in a row, they were about to exceed that time frame. The municipalities therefore did not want to make their mandatory contributions to the pensions and they did not wish to return money to the employees. The answer was that they negotiated agreements with the unions that allowed the municipalities to not put in their mandatory contributions and in exchange many municipalities increased the pension rate (an example is 2.2% per year being raised to 2.7%). It didn't cost the municipalities anything as they had no right to the pension money.

edit on 15-11-2012 by AQuestion because: clarification



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 12:46 AM
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Politicians are not shy about making all kinds of sweet deals with taxpayer money. Sooner or later the piper has to be paid, and the politician has long ago retired with his pockets full, and it's someone else's problem.

Same thing happened in Vallejo, where I lived at the time (30 miles or so north by east of San Francisco). By the time the city went bankrupt, 30% of their total expenses were police and firemen. Whattaya gonna do? The public was aware of the deals when they were made. People groused a little; a few huffing-and-puffing editorials were written. The politicians don't care. As far as the politicians are concerned, it's their money to throw away as they please....



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 12:47 AM
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Originally posted by randomtangentsrme

Originally posted by liejunkie01
It is easy to blame the employee.

I blame the politicians. They probably had some secret back door deal that would grant over payment of benefits and wages.

There is no way in hell a firefighter should male 150,000 a year with full benefits
I appreciate everything they do but 3,000 a week is ridiculous.



How much would it cost for you to risk your life daily?
If less than $3000 a week to do so and be on call 24/7, move here and save us some money.


I work with heights. I risked( currently laid off) falling daily. You risk your life every time you drive, or get in a vehicle.

Our firefighters make on average about 50 to $60,000 a year.

A firefighter does not work every single hour of the shift you know. Yeah some days are busy, other days are pretty boring for them. I know i work with a volunteer firefighter.

So please don't gibmve me the " how much would you risk your life fir speech", people work a lot more deadly occupations and get paid squat. My father is a logger. You know how much he makes? $14.00 an hour. They ate one of the most deadly jobs put there.

Try standing on the edge of a roof thirty to flurry feet up hanging gutter with no safety equipment. I do it for $18.00 an hour. How about a pitched roof that you cannot even stand on.

edit on 15-11-2012 by liejunkie01 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 01:44 AM
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Originally posted by liejunkie01

Originally posted by randomtangentsrme

Originally posted by liejunkie01
It is easy to blame the employee.

I blame the politicians. They probably had some secret back door deal that would grant over payment of benefits and wages.

There is no way in hell a firefighter should male 150,000 a year with full benefits
I appreciate everything they do but 3,000 a week is ridiculous.



How much would it cost for you to risk your life daily?
If less than $3000 a week to do so and be on call 24/7, move here and save us some money.


I work with heights. I risked( currently laid off) falling daily. You risk your life every time you drive, or get in a vehicle.

Our firefighters make on average about 50 to $60,000 a year.

A firefighter does not work every single hour of the shift you know. Yeah some days are busy, other days are pretty boring for them. I know i work with a volunteer firefighter.

So please don't gibmve me the " how much would you risk your life fir speech", people work a lot more deadly occupations and get paid squat. My father is a logger. You know how much he makes? $14.00 an hour. They ate one of the most deadly jobs put there.

Try standing on the edge of a roof thirty to flurry feet up hanging gutter with no safety equipment. I do it for $18.00 an hour. How about a pitched roof that you cannot even stand on.

edit on 15-11-2012 by liejunkie01 because: (no reason given)


And I work as a carpenter (or electrician depending on the job) in the arts. Try 60 feet up with no harnesses or handrails. Or 10,000 lbs overhead on a single line purchase counterweight system every time I walk into my job site.
We all have dangers in our jobs.
I've seen safety fail in my job, and people get life changing injures. Luckily I have not seen death.

But I don't rush into danger, and firefighters do. I'm fine with firefighters getting paid to do nothing but be ready to go. Here at least they are usually first responders and have EMT training.
Plus there's the whole cost of living argument. Having had opportunity to work with folk from all over (lovely thing about professional theater/performance), I would argue the Firefighters in question are making less in purchasing power at their $150,000 than yours are at that $50-60,000. Funny thing about money, it's all relative area to area.

As a Californian- I am glad to have my taxes pay for firefighters. Honestly I'd rather see them make $3000 a week rather than politicians, even when I make far less.

My father is a retired General Contractor, I understand (having worked for him a few summers) the risks involved in construction.
Add a few more risks and you're into working backstage for the arts.
If you still think I'm speaking from ignorance try doing a Google search on "dangerous jobs stagehand."

So again, if you want to be a firefighter here in Cali, come on down. Otherwise accept that you are coming from a knowledge base which does not truly understand the economy of the area.
Or educate me on where I'm wrong. I love to learn.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 01:59 AM
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reply to post by randomtangentsrme
 




Lol, the economy of that area is broke friend. You should quit defending it because it is a failure.

You shouldn't complain about your bankrupt city, county, state, if you are fine with them making 150 grand a year plus crazy benefits packages, then I guess it us all fine and dandy.

That is exactly why you are bankrupt. Overpaid politicians, government employees and such will do that to you. There is only a limited amount of funds and when you spend in excess of 1.5 million dollars on 10 firefighters that is what you get. A massive debt that is unable to be payed.

Doesn't the schoolboard head over there somewhere make like a quarter of a million dollars a year.

I am all for good pay, but there is finite funds and infinite spending. A county, state has to stay within a budget that reflects the amount of money coming in. It is simple economics.

No city, county, state, or coubtry should operate outside of its budget limitations. It is the reason why er have massive amounts of debts, all because someone thinks they deserve way over an average payscale.

$150,000 Jesus man that is almost competing wages with the president of the United States.

edit on 15-11-2012 by liejunkie01 because: (no reason given)
edit on 15-11-2012 by liejunkie01 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 05:18 AM
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reply to post by xuenchen
 


seems to me this is along the lines of the government CAFR pension scam..




In August 2010, San Bernardino's city manager Charles McNeely gave a presentation in which he warned of a looming $40 million deficit if something didn't change. He claims he told the council the finances were "a train wreck."


San Bernardino CAFR 2009

net assets for 2009 say over $600 million..








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