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Batman massacre suspect taken to hospital after 'suicide bid'
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reply to post by magma
Right. Trying to silence him for good, and he survives and is rushed to hospital. Better silence him when he gets back to prison...give me a freakin' break. Sometimes it isn't a conspiracy, and a nut case is a nut case.
Right. Trying to silence him for good, and he survives and is rushed to hospital. Better silence him when he gets back to prison...give me a freakin' break. Sometimes it isn't a conspiracy, and a nut case is a nut case.
Originally posted by Iamschist
Originally posted by Thunda
reply to post by Iamschist
Not that simple, Im afraid. 'Shorting out' is a moments loss of control- lashing out and punching someone in the face. Not what we have here. Even if you go with the MSM version, it took months of cold, calculated planning to pick the target, plan the attack, aquire the weapons, booby trap the flat etc etc.
Its not like he had the weapons lying around, suddenly flipped out and marched down to the cinema for a killing spree. Any version of events, from the full MKUltra-esq conspiracy to lone gunman, requires months of planning- and that is one of the (many) reasons the whole thing stinks.
But really- just start with this one question- If he acted alone how did Holmes get into the cinema? In full assault gear and tooled up the eyeballs with guns, grenades and a gas mask? Think about it........
He bought a ticket, left out the side door, blocked or rigged it not to close properly, got into his "Joker costume" and returned via the side door.
The 24-year-old bought a ticket to the midnight screening but allegedly left after half an hour to put on the body armor stored in his care before returning to the theater and opening fire.
www.dailymail.co.uk... ml
Yeah, nice theory, but the important word in that report is 'allegedly' (and in a report from the Daily Fail:lol.)
Tell you what, if you believe thats what happened, go down to your local movie theater tonight and try leaving by the fire exit, 'blocking or rigging it' and then coming back 5-10 minutes later- see what happens. I will make a wild guess and say an alarm will go off. Long gone are the days when you can open the fire doors in a cinema without triggering an alarm.
Should be lots of CCTV of him in the queue and leaving/getting his battledress on/re-entering then? What about the witnesses that saw another guy take a call on his mobile, open the fire door and motion for someone to come in? Mistaken or lying?
edit on 16-11-2012 by Thunda because: grammar
Jack Ruby anyone?
No Lee Harvey Oswald to testify.
They're hoping to never take this to trial as there is only circumstantial evidence for his conviction.
I've studied this event pretty carefully and it doesn't add up to him being the lone killer.
If he was involved at all.
But OMG how could they throw Kirstie off Dancing with The Stars!!
James Wholmes? Who....?
No Lee Harvey Oswald to testify.
They're hoping to never take this to trial as there is only circumstantial evidence for his conviction.
I've studied this event pretty carefully and it doesn't add up to him being the lone killer.
If he was involved at all.
But OMG how could they throw Kirstie off Dancing with The Stars!!
James Wholmes? Who....?
reply to post by Asktheanimals
No, he confessed.
They're hoping to never take this to trial as there is only circumstantial evidence for his conviction.
No, he confessed.
Originally posted by Char-Lee
Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
I don't think he was set up at all, personally. I think it's exactly what it looks like and a very very intelligent person blew a fuse or shorted a wire somewhere and turned that intelligence ...or what was left... into a very dark purpose.
Beyond that??? His appearances in court have me at a total loss. He's a space case and the lights may be on, but we aren't talking full occupancy in his establishment. It's spooky...and scary. He was on another planet in court and reacting to things only he was seeing. That first appearance was close up to his face and eyes long enough to get good hard impressions of what he was outwardly displaying. I have to say...I'd be creeped out by sitting across from him and the violence of his actions wouldn't even play into it. He's no threat now...but SOMETHING happened to turn a high achieving University student in a very high caliber field of study into a space case who could barely seem to show awareness of the room around him.
Last I heard, no one had yet come back from the adamant statement that he wasn't on drugs in court, at least that first time I really formed my opinion of him on this.
* There IS another factor though. His Psych was known, as many are these days, to treat student issues and had a number of other patients besides him. What drugs was he on from that? Things like ADHD drugs can have wildly different effects in aggression, judgement and ability to think clearly. I've watched it with my son and a couple friends. Could drugs SO many others take daily have contributed to what made him what he is now?
Take a look at the videos of him before this happened. he seemed like a fine calm reasonable person. I don't believe he was seeing a psychologist except as part of teaching and training. I don't think there is a shred of truth to any of the story!
Charles Manson, Adolph Hitler, Stanley Williams, Eric and Lyle Menendez.
All of them also appeared calm on video, too ... and we all know how they turned out to be.
Being calm on video before something happens (or during/after, for that matter) means nothing.
reply to post by Trustfund
No. He did not confess. He supposedly 'confessed' in two instances.
1-When he was taken by police, he supposedly told them he confessed to it and told them about the explosives. On the police audio, however, they say he was found unconscious in the back of his car and had to be wheel chaired into prison without any memory of what happened.
2-A former inmate (whom was in prison for 1 day on purpose) said he was bragging about killing everyone in jail. She was on the news claiming to be a witness to this. Days later...it was discovered her best friend said she wanted to get put into jail. Later, people found out her name on TV wasn't her true name, they found her real name and her maiden name (of which she has 2 Facebook accounts). On these accounts she specifically mentions she works in corrections and made lots of comments on this news TV station's statuses about James Holmes a day or 2 before she went to prison over night and talked to Holmes.
(a) police have two different versions of what went down when they apprehended him.
(b) former inmate woman who spent jail over night works in corrections, false name, and wanted to be in prison to see him.
How can anyone trust either of these to be used against him as confessing?
No. He did not confess. He supposedly 'confessed' in two instances.
1-When he was taken by police, he supposedly told them he confessed to it and told them about the explosives. On the police audio, however, they say he was found unconscious in the back of his car and had to be wheel chaired into prison without any memory of what happened.
2-A former inmate (whom was in prison for 1 day on purpose) said he was bragging about killing everyone in jail. She was on the news claiming to be a witness to this. Days later...it was discovered her best friend said she wanted to get put into jail. Later, people found out her name on TV wasn't her true name, they found her real name and her maiden name (of which she has 2 Facebook accounts). On these accounts she specifically mentions she works in corrections and made lots of comments on this news TV station's statuses about James Holmes a day or 2 before she went to prison over night and talked to Holmes.
(a) police have two different versions of what went down when they apprehended him.
(b) former inmate woman who spent jail over night works in corrections, false name, and wanted to be in prison to see him.
How can anyone trust either of these to be used against him as confessing?
edit on 16-11-2012 by resuwen because: (no reason
given)
edit on 16-11-2012 by resuwen because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by BeReasonable
Originally posted by Char-Lee
Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
I don't think he was set up at all, personally. I think it's exactly what it looks like and a very very intelligent person blew a fuse or shorted a wire somewhere and turned that intelligence ...or what was left... into a very dark purpose.
* There IS another factor though. His Psych was known, as many are these days, to treat student issues and had a number of other patients besides him. What drugs was he on from that? Things like ADHD drugs can have wildly different effects in aggression, judgement and ability to think clearly. I've watched it with my son and a couple friends. Could drugs SO many others take daily have contributed to what made him what he is now?
Take a look at the videos of him before this happened. he seemed like a fine calm reasonable person. I don't believe he was seeing a psychologist except as part of teaching and training. I don't think there is a shred of truth to any of the story!
normal people flip out all the time for all kinds of reasons. i had a mate have a breakdown a few monthsa ago, everything seemed fine in his life, we worked side by side for a year and a half, then one day he didnt turn up for work. for 2 months. didnt hear from him once while he was missing, my boss and hi were very close, 5 years he worked for my boss, who was like a father to him. he didnt call the boss either. we found out later he had been admitted to a psych hospital and was under 24hr obsrvation for over a month.
all im saying is, people flip out for all sorts of reasons, just becasue someone ''appears'' to be ok or is ok before something happened, doesnt mean they didnt legitimately have some kind of breakdown. i find the story suspicious as well, but i cant rule out the fact that he lost it and went on a rampage. sickness of the mind is not a well understood phenomenon.
I think "flip out" get depressed suicidal even yes. Plan all that and kill tons of people NO.
Originally posted by resuwen
reply to post by Trustfund
On the police audio, however, they say he was found unconscious in the back of his car and had to be wheel chaired into prison without any memory of what happened.
)
If this is true then he might not have been inside the theater at all unless it was something like River in Firefly, where there was a trigger followed by a safe word. Why do I feel crazy just for saying that?
edit on 16-11-2012 by LEL01 because: I messed up
This was my first attempt at quoting, somehow I got the "If" up top.
edit on 16-11-2012 by LEL01 because: (no reason given)
Here's just a little bit to open you up to the idea:
I listened to the 911 calls on YouTube just now many run-thrus. A transcript is also available this site: www.examiner.com...
The transcript is either edited purposefully or shortened.
However, there is a huge gap between the transcript and the actual recording...
This is a snippet of the transcript I took to show you that GAP in the transcript.
1:00:07 315 and 314, first shooting at century theatres, 14 300 East Alameda avenue, they're saying somebody's shooting in the auditorium. 01:00:16
01:03:42 315 be advised i think somebody's sprayed some gas over there too.
01:05:14 get us some damn gas masks for theater 9 we can’t get in it
[1 MINUTE GAP IN TRANSCRIPT]
01:06:14 16 I need a marked car behind the theater stable side,suspect in a gas mask.
01:06:50 everyone hold the air one second, cars where that white car in the rear of the lot, is that a suspect? YES! we've got rifles, gas masks, you can see him ive got a open door going into the theater, OK hold that position, hold that suspect! 01:07:05
01:09:58 one of the shooters might be wearing a white and blue plaid shirt 01:10:03
During that 1 minute gap. You can hear this on the actual recording an officer (possibly the same one that says we got the suspect in a gas mask) says:
"We have a party in car shot in White Kia"
Afterwards you get "where is that vehicle at?" from the dispatcher.
[No Response]
Seconds later you get the "We have a suspect in a gas mask"
Another interesting fact you'll see in the actual recording...
A man comes on a few minutes after arriving and before going into theater 9 (needing gas masks) and before the suspect was caught...saying something about finding/seeing semi-automatics or something and doesn't respond when dispatcher asks him to repeat that.
For more ideas based on all the evidence presented, check out this awesome documentary:
www.youtube.com...
Plenty of reports of him being found in car and taken out on a stretcher or perhaps a wheel chair, inmates also said he was wheeled into prison. However, it has been made publicly he was apprehended upon leaving the theater.
I listened to the 911 calls on YouTube just now many run-thrus. A transcript is also available this site: www.examiner.com...
The transcript is either edited purposefully or shortened.
However, there is a huge gap between the transcript and the actual recording...
This is a snippet of the transcript I took to show you that GAP in the transcript.
1:00:07 315 and 314, first shooting at century theatres, 14 300 East Alameda avenue, they're saying somebody's shooting in the auditorium. 01:00:16
01:03:42 315 be advised i think somebody's sprayed some gas over there too.
01:05:14 get us some damn gas masks for theater 9 we can’t get in it
[1 MINUTE GAP IN TRANSCRIPT]
01:06:14 16 I need a marked car behind the theater stable side,suspect in a gas mask.
01:06:50 everyone hold the air one second, cars where that white car in the rear of the lot, is that a suspect? YES! we've got rifles, gas masks, you can see him ive got a open door going into the theater, OK hold that position, hold that suspect! 01:07:05
01:09:58 one of the shooters might be wearing a white and blue plaid shirt 01:10:03
During that 1 minute gap. You can hear this on the actual recording an officer (possibly the same one that says we got the suspect in a gas mask) says:
"We have a party in car shot in White Kia"
Afterwards you get "where is that vehicle at?" from the dispatcher.
[No Response]
Seconds later you get the "We have a suspect in a gas mask"
Another interesting fact you'll see in the actual recording...
A man comes on a few minutes after arriving and before going into theater 9 (needing gas masks) and before the suspect was caught...saying something about finding/seeing semi-automatics or something and doesn't respond when dispatcher asks him to repeat that.
For more ideas based on all the evidence presented, check out this awesome documentary:
www.youtube.com...
Plenty of reports of him being found in car and taken out on a stretcher or perhaps a wheel chair, inmates also said he was wheeled into prison. However, it has been made publicly he was apprehended upon leaving the theater.
reply to post by resuwen
Thanks, I will listen to that later when I have more time, the video is blocked in my country.
But this.
01:09:58 one of the shooters might be wearing a white and blue plaid shirt 01:10:03
I remember hearing that at the time but I'm sure they said he was seen running away.
I'm a long way off believing that Holmes did this.
Thanks, I will listen to that later when I have more time, the video is blocked in my country.
But this.
01:09:58 one of the shooters might be wearing a white and blue plaid shirt 01:10:03
I remember hearing that at the time but I'm sure they said he was seen running away.
I'm a long way off believing that Holmes did this.
Well. One of the main witnesses, still to this day said he saw a man in a blue / white plaid shirt with goatee propping open the door while talking on
his cellphone. At this point the witness left to meet someone in the lobby and came back in, the movie was starting, and didn't see the guy.
The Aurora movie theater massacre is a very complicated situation and almost all of the "official information" from law enforcement has been
contradicted, revised, reinvented by the same law enforcement officials. It is important to understand that at this point there are far more
questions than answers about what happened on July 20 and any involvement on the part of James Holmes. I'd encourage folks to do their own research,
re-visit old ATS threads on the case and various bloggers have have spent an inordinate amount of time looking into this incident. Frankly when
looking at the information in context, one has to wonder the extent of Holmes' involvement. I must say it is quite troubling that absolutely no one
in the theater has mentioned seeing a tall (6ft+) guy with the buggy eyes and the world's worst neon orange hair dye job as being someone they saw in
the theater that night.
That being said, unless Holmes' prison bed rests on top of the CN Tower, the leak of a suicide attempt by jumping off his bed is preposterous. It is laughable that such a leak would merit publication.
As far as the leak about him being in the hospital due to a suicide attempt by ramming his head into a wall; who knows if this is true. Almost all of the leaks from the prison have been dis-proven; why should this one be any different?
That being said, unless Holmes' prison bed rests on top of the CN Tower, the leak of a suicide attempt by jumping off his bed is preposterous. It is laughable that such a leak would merit publication.
As far as the leak about him being in the hospital due to a suicide attempt by ramming his head into a wall; who knows if this is true. Almost all of the leaks from the prison have been dis-proven; why should this one be any different?
reply to post by resuwen
So it seems like the guy who ran off was the same guy who held the door open and that wasn't Holmes. I can't remember any of the witnesses saying they saw the guy he was waving over, so Holmes might not have even made it out of the car.
So it seems like the guy who ran off was the same guy who held the door open and that wasn't Holmes. I can't remember any of the witnesses saying they saw the guy he was waving over, so Holmes might not have even made it out of the car.
reply to post by NickDC202
Have you heard anything since the start of this thread?
Jumping off the bed and running into the wall were reported as past attempts not this one.
If this is true, I can't even begin to imagine what is going on in his head and you're not wrong about more questions than answers.
Have you heard anything since the start of this thread?
Jumping off the bed and running into the wall were reported as past attempts not this one.
If this is true, I can't even begin to imagine what is going on in his head and you're not wrong about more questions than answers.
reply to post by LEL01
Yes, I've been following the Holmes situation closely. I know that the bed thing was not this attempt but leaked in conjunction with this week's medical / supposed suicide by head into wall leak. Frankly I'm suspect that either a're true; I'd sooner bet on a different medical issue before I believe any of these leaks. If they want to leak something, how about leaking surveillance video of Holmes at the theater on July 20 (if it exists)....
Yes, I've been following the Holmes situation closely. I know that the bed thing was not this attempt but leaked in conjunction with this week's medical / supposed suicide by head into wall leak. Frankly I'm suspect that either a're true; I'd sooner bet on a different medical issue before I believe any of these leaks. If they want to leak something, how about leaking surveillance video of Holmes at the theater on July 20 (if it exists)....
reply to post by Char-Lee
Just a follow up, but I went back to insure I had the details right and he was under formal care of the psych at the University as a patient.
The Dr's own disciplinary issues over Rx handling is a matter of record and people can look that up if they like.
There may be more to this though...is my feeling. I think the 'more' may be in errors made for type and dose of drugs though. Who knows..... Like I said, she has a history that makes it all the more interesting.
Hopefully he'll stand his day in court so we can all learn by that process, what happened here and how. That's the most important thing IMO.
There may be more to this though...is my feeling. I think the 'more' may be in errors made for type and dose of drugs though. Who knows..... Like I said, she has a history that makes it all the more interesting.
Source - ABC
ABC News has learned that Dr. Lynne Fenton, the psychiatrist who was treating Holmes, 24, at the school, was also a key member of the university's threat assessment team. The group of experts were responsible for protecting the school from potentially violent students.
KMGH-TV, ABC News' affiliate in Denver, reported exclusively that, according to sources, by early June, Fenton had informed other members of the team about her concerns regarding Holmes.
But on June 10 -- three days after Holmes bought an assault weapon and added it to his already growing arsenal -- he suddenly told the university that he was dropping out of the neurosciences doctoral program with no explanation.
KMGH-TV reported last week that he'd purchased the weapon hours after failing a key oral exam.
Hopefully he'll stand his day in court so we can all learn by that process, what happened here and how. That's the most important thing IMO.
Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Hopefully he'll stand his day in court so we can all learn by that process, what happened here and how.
Ain't gonna happen. By the time they are finished with him, he will practically be begging for the right to plead guilty.
It is peculiar that the same week that leaks to the media about Holmes' alleged suicide attempts which resulted in Holmes' name being thrust back into
the national news spotlight that this happens:
From CBS News: "Twilight" theatre shooting plot foiled in Missouri, police say
[url=http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57551341-504083/twilight-theatre-shooting-plot-foiled-in-missouri-police-say /url]
Anyone else find these two events happening days apart to be "interesting"???
From CBS News: "Twilight" theatre shooting plot foiled in Missouri, police say
[url=http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57551341-504083/twilight-theatre-shooting-plot-foiled-in-missouri-police-say /url]
A southwest Missouri man was arrested after authorities say he admitted to plotting to open fire inside a movie theater during a screening of the new "Twilight" film. Blaec Lammers, 23, of Bolivar was charged Friday with three felony counts, including making a terrorist threat. Bolivar police say his mother contacted authorities Thursday, saying she was concerned her son had purchased weapons similar to those used in the movie theater shooting in Aurora, Colo. Investigators say Lammers told authorities he was planning to attack the theater and a Walmart store Sunday. Police say he'd bought movie tickets, two assault rifles and 400 rounds of ammunition.
Anyone else find these two events happening days apart to be "interesting"???
edit on 11/17/2012 by NickDC202 because: (no reason
given)
reply to post by NickDC202
Thank you for this information, while I do agree with you I can't help thinking that somebody else might have rammed his head into the wall. That would still make the story a lie though.
Thank you for this information, while I do agree with you I can't help thinking that somebody else might have rammed his head into the wall. That would still make the story a lie though.
Originally posted by starviego
Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Hopefully he'll stand his day in court so we can all learn by that process, what happened here and how.
Ain't gonna happen. By the time they are finished with him, he will practically be begging for the right to plead guilty.
"finished" with him? What do you imagine is happening to a criminal suspect that currently has as much legal attention defending him as there is looking to fry him? I'm honestly confused as to what you're suggesting either way here? He appears to be a mentally broken individual either before or because of what he did in Aurora. He's a University Student who couldn't apparently handle some aspect of the top levels of a very VERY hard degree program and broke like glass on concrete.
Sadly...he had the brains to take his implosion and turn it into deadly results for everyone else around him. Perhaps we need a HARD look at what these "crisis intervention teams" exist for when INTERVENTION seems to be off the table for options.