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posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 07:06 PM
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Originally posted by SpiritofEnoch
reply to post by jiggerj
 


What makes you think they didn't have God? Even of they never wrote of Him or made art depicting him, they could've felt his presence and felt he would always be there.

The end result is the the same, yes. We have to live in this world that is. Not one that might or could be, but the one that is. But I warn you, if you live a life ignorant of God, you transgress Him in the ultimate way, by ignoring him. Every action has a consequence. You think denying God is any different?


If our souls are on the line; if we are threatened with eternal damnation, then this is NOT a game. If my soul is on the line, I have a chair ready for my personal god to sit in and tell me to my face. I don't want to read about it in any 2000 year old book. I won't accept the word of any lunatic preacher, or ANY human for that matter, to tell me about some god and what is good or bad for my soul.

You fanatics claim to know god, but that is just arrogance wrapped in ignorance and covered in superstition.




posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 07:10 PM
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Originally posted by SpiritofEnoch
reply to post by jiggerj
 


The only reason I look forward to death or judgement day is for the same reason that you are anxious to get the results of your final exams in school.


You really can't see how sick and twisted that is, huh? Honestly?



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 07:12 PM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


I like to think of it as hope garnished with a bit of naïveté, and served with a side of intuition. You are free to think whatever you wish, as God gave you that ability. Your open chair is little more than a thinly veiled disguise of your true desire. You, like everyone before you, just want him to prove himself to you. Why should he, when you won't even prove yourself to him?



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 07:19 PM
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Originally posted by SpiritofEnoch
reply to post by jiggerj
 


I don't consider myself unworthy of God because the price has been paid for me.


The price has been paid for you??? Oh yes, I know what you're getting at. Care to take a test to see if you're suffering from disorganized thought? Let's have a go at it, shall we? Which of the following statements make perfect sense, and which ones make no sense at all:

1. Ice cream was invented to help salmon swim upstream.
2. My house burned down because I bought a jar of peanut butter.
3. Jesus died on the cross so that we would be forgiven our sins.



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 07:26 PM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


If you had a dead famly member or friend or somebody you knew personally, who rejected the Gospel and lived a life of wickedness and ended up in Hades,

Even if they rose from the grave and told you God was real and so is Heaven and Hell,

You would still not believe.

If you won't believe Moses and the Prophets, and the Son Himself,

You have rejected the Truth and condemned yourself



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 07:32 PM
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Originally posted by SpiritofEnoch
reply to post by jiggerj
 


I like to think of it as hope garnished with a bit of naïveté, and served with a side of intuition. You are free to think whatever you wish, as God gave you that ability. Your open chair is little more than a thinly veiled disguise of your true desire. You, like everyone before you, just want him to prove himself to you. Why should he, when you won't even prove yourself to him?


This is a religious defense statement used when fanatics can't come up with a logical answer. You have to prove yourself to god. God works in mysterious ways. It's god's will.

Well, even Jesus allowed Doubting Thomas to poke his wounds. I'm doubting and I'm ready to poke. Unless, of course, this was a mistake in the plot of a book of fiction? We're all supposed to just believe it on blind faith with zero evidence, and then that stupid writer just had to screw it all up!



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 07:38 PM
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Originally posted by godlover25
reply to post by jiggerj
 


If you had a dead famly member or friend or somebody you knew personally, who rejected the Gospel and lived a life of wickedness and ended up in Hades,
Even if they rose from the grave and told you God was real and so is Heaven and Hell,
You would still not believe.
If you won't believe Moses and the Prophets, and the Son Himself,
You have rejected the Truth and condemned yourself


Wait a minute? Nobody goes to the father except through Jesus. So, even if my friend led a good and honorable life, but didn't believe in the stories of Jesus, he'd STILL be thrown into hell. Some loving god, huh?

However, if my dead relative had been rotting for three days and came back to life, oh HELL YA I'd believe! But, if someone TOLD me that my friend came back to life, or if I read it in a book, I'd ask to see him. If the response of the teller is, "Well, um, he's not here anymore. His, ummm, body rose up into heaven. Yeah, that's the ticket!" I'm pretty sure I'd inform the teller of this story that he's full of ____.



posted on Nov, 18 2012 @ 02:42 AM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


Who else but God could make us believe the "unbelievable?"

Remember humanity's friend Stephen Hawking? Remember when he said that if aliens did exist, they would probably be unimaginably more intelligent and evolved than us. Neil DeGrasse Tyson was fond of saying we would be like an anthill to them.

Hmm. If a super intelligent, super evolved being from outside this Earth had an ant farm...
edit on 18-11-2012 by SpiritofEnoch because: Typo



posted on Nov, 18 2012 @ 03:48 AM
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Originally posted by SpiritofEnoch
reply to post by jiggerj
 


Who else but God could make us believe the "unbelievable?"



LOL WE make ourselves believe in the unbelievable. How many witches have been burned at the stake? Why were they burned? Because they weren't witches and had no power to cast spells to free themselves! But, try selling that piece of logic to the people of 1692 Salem.
edit on 11/18/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 18 2012 @ 04:06 AM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


Simply an example of the power of God being extorted by men out of fear that they might lose control over their subjects. I don't think anybody is here to make the argument that there are not wicked men. What happens when a wicked man takes power? He uses every tool at his disposal to control the masses. God is a very powerful tool when used for both good and evil. Should we only look at the atrocities committed in "God's" name? Should we forget the millions that are helped every year by non-profit organizations that also operate in God's name?



posted on Nov, 18 2012 @ 04:12 AM
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Originally posted by jiggerj
Well, even Jesus allowed Doubting Thomas to poke his wounds. I'm doubting and I'm ready to poke. Unless, of course, this was a mistake in the plot of a book of fiction? We're all supposed to just believe it on blind faith with zero evidence, and then that stupid writer just had to screw it all up!


No mistake, poke away, good sir. You'll find no infirmity, I assure you. And that is the only statement I have made so far based solely on faith, by the way.



posted on Nov, 18 2012 @ 04:38 AM
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Originally posted by SpiritofEnoch
reply to post by jiggerj
 


Simply an example of the power of God being extorted by men out of fear that they might lose control over their subjects. I don't think anybody is here to make the argument that there are not wicked men. What happens when a wicked man takes power? He uses every tool at his disposal to control the masses.


Spirit, I have posed so many questions to you and others, and those questions never get answered. The questions always get derailed to avoid answering honestly. Your reply here is to my post about how WE make ourselves believe in the unbelievable. Sure, the burning of witches in Old Salem was probably a land-grabbing scheme, but are you saying that the common citizens didn't believe in witches and let the town elders kill them anyway?


Should we only look at the atrocities committed in "God's" name? Should we forget the millions that are helped every year by non-profit organizations that also operate in God's name?


To be quite honest, YES, we should only look at the atrocities. All of the good things attributed to a god are actually good people doing good deeds. Look at what our U.S. government does for those in need; how many people would be out on the street if not for our non-religious welfare program and social security. I am an atheist and I donate to Toys for Tots every year. When veterans get sick I cook them their meals. I used to do a lot of good deeds before my health started failing, and it wasn't because I feared a god; I did it because it felt good to ME.

The atrocities, however, committed by true believers cannot be done by just anyone. When people understand that there is no god, then these atrocities will finally stop. Again, yes there will still be war and torture and cruelty, but the ones done in the name of an imaginary god will stop.



posted on Nov, 18 2012 @ 04:58 AM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


Removing the atrocities committed in the name of God does not remove wickedness from humanity. If not God, then evil will still be committed in the name of self, country, fear, or control.

In response to what you say about what we make ourselves believe, I am a little disappointed in you for not understanding that the people were led to believe this by someone who they trusted to speak for God. Their minds were led astray by lies and it was hard for the people to rekindle their spirit after murdering innocent people. That is why it is so important to look at the ultimate outcomes of our works, not just the works themselves. It is said that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Jesus made it clear what the key to the path was. Love. If it is not love, it is not godly. If the works do not reflect this, then this person is not of God.



posted on Nov, 18 2012 @ 10:40 AM
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Originally posted by SpiritofEnoch
reply to post by jiggerj
 


Removing the atrocities committed in the name of God does not remove wickedness from humanity. If not God, then evil will still be committed in the name of self, country, fear, or control.

In response to what you say about what we make ourselves believe, I am a little disappointed in you for not understanding that the people were led to believe this by someone who they trusted to speak for God. Their minds were led astray by lies and it was hard for the people to rekindle their spirit after murdering innocent people. That is why it is so important to look at the ultimate outcomes of our works, not just the works themselves. It is said that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Jesus made it clear what the key to the path was. Love. If it is not love, it is not godly. If the works do not reflect this, then this person is not of God.


LOL This must be a day of people not reading what they're writing. People were led to believe in witches (you are 100% right), meaning WE (certain humans) make ourselves (other humans) believe in the unbelievable. Just like when people invented a vengeful god to get what they wanted out of everyone.



posted on Nov, 18 2012 @ 11:45 AM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


Oh, of course. How could I forget. 1692 was the year everybody woke up and said "hey look, it's a nice day. I think I'll burn someone at the stake."



posted on Nov, 18 2012 @ 02:14 PM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 
You are spiritually dead and emotionally dead as well .You are gloom and doom without reason . You have a dark spirit of gloom where there is no brighter days and no doubt a loner . You should read the bible as if it were the light that gives you hope .
I myself question everything . I by nature are one of the most pessimistic people that I know . I have a reputation for such . I like to take things apart to see why they work and I always put them back in working order . I can take down engines and transmissions to the last bolt , fix them and reinstall them my self . So likewise I do dissect and analyze what I believe in . I'm not that careless . Do you? Have you actually approached the bible with an attitude of discovery of what it is trying to say or f read until you find something you can try to dispute .
Your avatar eludes to your poor out look on live in general .It affects everything in your life and the people around you .Does your life style exclude God .?
Now , come up with an alternative explanation to the biblical explanation or just say you don't know .



posted on Nov, 18 2012 @ 10:03 PM
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Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by jiggerj
 
You are spiritually dead and emotionally dead as well .You are gloom and doom without reason . You have a dark spirit of gloom where there is no brighter days and no doubt a loner . You should read the bible as if it were the light that gives you hope .
I myself question everything . I by nature are one of the most pessimistic people that I know . I have a reputation for such . I like to take things apart to see why they work and I always put them back in working order . I can take down engines and transmissions to the last bolt , fix them and reinstall them my self . So likewise I do dissect and analyze what I believe in . I'm not that careless . Do you? Have you actually approached the bible with an attitude of discovery of what it is trying to say or f read until you find something you can try to dispute .
Your avatar eludes to your poor out look on live in general .It affects everything in your life and the people around you .Does your life style exclude God .?
Now , come up with an alternative explanation to the biblical explanation or just say you don't know .


I am all doom and gloom? I LOVE science. I LOVE my daughter. I live everyday for coffee and movies and scratch tickets and watching squirrels play. Every morning when I walk to work I take a moment to look up in amazement at all the beautiful stars. Sometimes the moon is so large it makes me gasp in wonder of it.

Oh yeah, I love ATS also.

At this time in my life I have heart disease, peripheral arterial disease, my liver's giving me problems, and I have a torn rotator cuff in my left shoulder. For some reason I'm bleeding a lot in my mouth, throat and sinuses. And yet, I STILL find something to laugh about every day. I am STILL curious about the universe. No, I don't need a god or a book to tell me I'm doing something wrong when I hurt no one while enjoying this life the best I can. I don't need a promise of eternity when the idea of existing for all eternity sounds like pure hell to me.

As for my avatar, are you too young to know Walter Matthau? He was a funny man and a great actor.

There is no way possible for you to question everything and come away thinking that the bible is anything more than poorly written stories. Obviously, there is something missing in YOUR life that compels you to want to be a slave to some mystical magical being in the sky. Do you have any idea just how desperate and needy that sounds?



posted on Nov, 18 2012 @ 10:15 PM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


Don't think you've won anything. God sees the good in your life and he smiles therefore upon you. But your life only has temporary peace. Only through Christ are we offered peace everlasting. I don't preach of hellfire or eternal torment, for most souls are not deserving of such things. They have a sadder, far less magnificent end. They are simply erased. You know that your life will end. Things that matter in this world therefore have a greater impact on your peace. But for us who lie within Christ, we know that our works here on Earth are but a step in the staircase to God.



posted on Nov, 18 2012 @ 10:23 PM
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You should read the bible as if it were the light that gives you hope .
reply to post by SimonPeter
 


It really is ironic that those seeking an invisible friend think other people should too. By the mere fact that you need a god is a loud and obvious confession that something is missing in YOUR life. Though it is all a bunch of bull, the god of the bible supposedly gives hope to the hopeless - are you hopeless. He supposedly gives help to the helpless. Are you helpless? He supposedly comforts those that feel alone. Are you alone?

I feel no sense of hopelessness, helplessness, or loneliness. Well, we all have these feelings from time to time, but not to the point where we need to believe in wizards and unicorns and fairies and a paradise in the next life. These things are for children - very young children.



posted on Nov, 18 2012 @ 10:39 PM
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Originally posted by SpiritofEnoch
reply to post by jiggerj
 


Don't think you've won anything. God sees the good in your life and he smiles therefore upon you. But your life only has temporary peace. Only through Christ are we offered peace everlasting. I don't preach of hellfire or eternal torment, for most souls are not deserving of such things. They have a sadder, far less magnificent end. They are simply erased. You know that your life will end. Things that matter in this world therefore have a greater impact on your peace. But for us who lie within Christ, we know that our works here on Earth are but a step in the staircase to God.


Won? If our little chat has caused you to think a little more on this matter. If you are not so blinded by the belief in a mystical magical wizard living in a land of Oz, then you are closer to the truth. This means that YOU win. Only through Christ can you waste your entire life on a fairy tale. Whether we are made of solid matter or waves of energy, THIS life is real. We live in the HERE AND NOW. There's no disqualifying this life because there's a better one coming up in the afterlife. That's just crazy.

There is no such thing as a perfect god because there's no such thing as a perfect anything. There's no such thing as paradise in the afterlife because there's no such thing as paradise.

You are not a sinner. You are not weak. You are not a slave. You are not anything that the bible tries to convince you of. You are not a child of god because you are not a child.

You are 100 percent human, and that means you are whatever you make yourself to be in this life. You make the laws that you live by. You make mistakes. You learn things that can be passed onto others. You have good times and bad times. These things are NOTHING to be ashamed of.





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