Secession petitions now filed for all 50 states - Yahoo! News, page 6

Originally posted by SG-17
reply to post by incoserv

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Because at the base level it is racism. It has always been racism. Some people do not like that we have a legitimate black and popular President and they are the loudest voices and the ones who have organized things like the Tea Party and now this faux "secessionist" movement.


Secession is not legal, it never has been since the ratification of the Constitution. The very act of secession is an act of treason and war against the rest of the states and the federal government.

Also the Declaration of Independence is not a legally binding document that applies to the laws of the United States.

Nullification has been proven to be illegal as well.

Right-wingers love to cry about precedence and the Founders, but it is blatantly obvious from both the Founding Fathers and from historical precedence that both Secession and Nullification are not the right of the Federated (not Sovereign) States that are the United States.

edit on 11/14/2012 by SG-17 because: (no reason given)

rather argue this nonsense, why don't you explain YOUR position to the residents of Vermont ??
vermontrepublic.org... ... or ... vermontsecession.blogspot.com...

so, how 'bout you provide a link proving your claim to "federated States" rather sovereign

Reply to post by Honor93

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Sorry mate. Natural law trumps all laws of man. Unless you believe judges trump God-given inalienable rights.

And by the way, secession from Britain was illegal, seditious, and treasonous as well.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

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Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

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Originally posted by Shimri
Reply to post by Honor93

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Sorry mate. Natural law trumps all laws of man. Unless you believe judges trump God-given inalienable rights.

And by the way, secession from Britain was illegal, seditious, and treasonous as well.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

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Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

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so, what about secession is NOT acting within the boundaries of "natural law" ??

and yes, according to British law it was, nothing else.

what does British law have to do with American secession from their own government as prescribed in the "compact" known as the Constitution ?

since the original secession from England was prefaced by this declaration, how can it apply any less today ?

www.archives.gov...
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.-- That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Originally posted by BubbaJoe

Originally posted by incoserv

Originally posted by BubbaJoe
People, get a freaking grip, we do not need another civil war on this soil. My family has a very long history in North America, and have lost family members on both sides in all of our wars, up until Korea. I am a veteran, I am a liberal, and I am a marksman.

Again, the point of this discussion was not about starting a civil war. I don't see that happening.

How can the administration respond to this - as they have promised to do, since there are more than 25,000 signatories - in a way that will be constructive?

Or will they?

A few folks have actually addressed that question. Thanks.

Really 70000 signatures out of 315 Million population in the USA, that is (.02%) of the population, do you seriously think that is something the president needs to respond to, I am thinking the 45 mil (14.3%) on food stamps is far more important. But then again, it is just the liberal in me, responding to the hypocritical right wing ding bats. Sometimes the fringe really needs to grab on to what is important, or it is just fringe that blows in the breeze.

No disrespect broooooooo but you are completely wrong. It is just the start of a long line of dominoes. Wayne's World 2 is a great example of this.



These petitions came out of no where and without media talk about it, there is no promoting. Ever since then, yahoo has been covering it and the signatures have risen. Get enough people pissed off and one of them will do something stupid. Then the government will do something stupid. Then someone will scream that was my family member. Then the ultimate family support will step in and say the government has gone to far in violating their rights. Then the conspiracy group joins in and rallies everyone else. And so on and so on.

It will be easy for the start of a revolution...The only question we have to ask ourselves..............is when?

reply to post by Shimri

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first, i did no such thing or did i support those who have.

second ... i believe you are mistaken.
you said ...

and some clueless morons feel we as a people are hands tied to do anything about it?

are you sure you're responding to the correct person ?

who are these clueless morons of which you speak ?
are you professing the ppl signing the petitions are or the ppl supporting the movement as a whole or what exactly ?

more and more ppl are recognizing the simple fact that they do NOT have to "feel we as a people are hands tied to do anything about it" and that's why the signatures are increasing exponentially by the hour.

I just tracked something down I wanted to come back and share. First, I want to say if the numbers really balloon to make this into a political movement in it's own right...who knows? Maybe the thing that brings TPM and OWS together on a common purpose, albeit opposite long term results to each. It's a goal I've written my own threads on so I'd love to see THAT happen.

At the same time...still people talking rash ideas and crazy concepts...so this really is worth sharing. It's not something I've really heard talked about much in media as a capability the U.S. has but given the very source here, it's hardly secret any longer. Who knows how long it existed before it was open enough to give to Moscow and let be used in a high profile removal of a problem?

Russia's security chief told President Vladimir Putin that Basayev had been killed in a special operation, while a rebel-connected website said Basayev had died in an accidental explosion. Ingush authorities said the explosion occurred mistakenly during a special police operation against rebels.

The ITAR-Tass news agency, citing an unidentified law enforcement official in southern Russia, reported that Basayev had been killed by a missile that homed in on his cellphone — the method used to kill Chechen separatist president, Dzhokhar Dudayev, in 1996.

Source

It's a hard thing to have to consider, but the idea that Hollywood conveys of Running Man type endings of bloodless coups or more recent flicks of near violence free internal 'regime changes' just aren't realistic. The above is part of what really pisses me of actually. People like Bin Laden and his lieutenants were still on PHONES back then and this being open enough to just hand around to old comrades means it's old tech to those guys. The whole war probably could have simply been fought, won and ended with a few salvos of missiles in the right time and spot. I disgress though...

The point is, when they really REALLY care and want someone or a group of someone's removed? They get removed. Erased... Gone. This guy didn't even get the chance to fight anyone and he wasn't a goober with no common sense. He was a top commander and a rather exceptionally bad (as in evil) one at that. The lights just went out and one second it was a someone on the phone, the next? Only He knows. (click)

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

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so, does this technology scare you ? or are you sharing hoping to scare others into submission ?

does it surprise you that it took 15yrs, thousands of deaths and the loss of a seal team to "get BL" when all we could have done had already been done repeatedly since 1996 ?

not sure about you, but my blood boils the more that reality sinks in

Reply to post by flexy123

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I signed.

I am not a nut.

I despise Limbaugh, Hannity, Levin, etc.

I do not listen to Alex Jones or Jack Blood.

I do not like like Obama, just as I did not like Bush.

I am not a Republican, nor a Democrat.

I am not far right, and I am not an Evangelical Christian. Neither am I far left or godless.




How does that fit into your paradigm?

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Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

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reply to post by LittleBlackEagle

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While I agree with your sentiments regarding freedom and the Constitution one cannot compare what's happening now in any way with either the revolutionary war or the civil war for one simple reason.

Technology.

They couldn't spy on us then like can (and have been) now.
They didn't have drones, tanks, helicopters, napalm or machine guns.
Armed resistance is doomed before it even starts.
Let's not give anyone unrealistic expectations of anything other than a quick death.

I can tell you there are a lot of pissed off people in this country, especially older conservatives. They're waking up to a new reality but let's not go off with any knee-jerk reactions that could get people hurt.

TPM and OWS both started as real, patriotic movements but were subverted by gov/corporate interests.
That is the other lesson that must be digested before any reasonable response can be formulated.

Reply to post by CAMale

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And yet major polls (Gallup, Rasmussen, etc) are based on an even smaller percentage and taken as very strong evidence of the will of the people.

Hmmmmm

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Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

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A very entertaining take on the subject;

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

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Kali.. I don't know what happened to you. I honestly don't.

Nothing has happened to me. I'm passionate about the truth; Lies, misconceptions and misinformation piss me off... regardless of who the person is that is spewing them or what they are regarding.

I can't recall the last message I've read of yours that was in any way light or uplifting? The costs of taking the stands we all choose, I suppose. Still, it's been a sad thing to watch over the months.

I could easily say the same of you.

I am an American. That doesn't mean I'm an American Citizen when it suits me...or when they piss me off,

I never thought such.

I left Occupy because the cause of change became the cause of destruction and at this point, I'm as likely to fight against them as I am to stand with them on ANYTHING. They've become as much my enemy as an American as they have any sort of solution to anything.

I have a feeling that you can't articulate why we've become your enemy or for that matter how we became a cause of destruction. You've made similar statements before and wonder why I react as I do, to you. You defined me as an enemy not just of yours but of America.

Now, I had advised caution...I have damn well asked people to be careful and consider what consequences might be.

I don't believe that the State has slipped that far as of yet, but there are things now in place that can easily turn it into something to truly revolt against. Now is the time for words and discussions, it is the time for peaceful protest and shining a spotlight on the corruption that could lead us down the path you're so terrified of. It hasn't yet and hopefully it won't. Begging people not stand in opposition because you're afraid the State can be provoked into disappearing masses of people or ushering in Martial Law or anything along those lines, is beyond foolish... if you fear to act now before it has gotten that bad, how are we going to stop it from becoming that bad?

Perhaps I am overreacting. It's possible that the entire concept of law and order is basically negotiable now....so the fact this is on the HAIR LINE of violating one of the most serious laws any nation has....may be totally irrelevant in the long term. Then again....the penalty for Sedition or fomenting Insurrection is life or death, literally. I'll pass on THAT risk for ABSOLUTELY NOTHING GAINED. Thanks anyway.

There's nothing seditious about asking the White House to engage in a conversation about secession. The military isn't going show up at these peoples homes and arrest them for treason.

Now, you want to play revolutionary and see what Che and Fidel did when they played this game. Thats fine...

There's nothing Che about me or Occupy but again you demonstrate why I've taken a hard-line with you. A statement such as that, that solidly blocks us in on the Far/Militant Left when the majority of Occupy is Center/Center Left... it's unfounded, untrue and unfair.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

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Maybe the thing that brings TPM and OWS together on a common purpose, albeit opposite long term results to each. It's a goal I've written my own threads on so I'd love to see THAT happen.

After saying all that you've said against Occupy, you follow with this? If we're a bunch of wannabe Che's why would you want us at any table? And no, Occupy will not be participating in any movement that has a goal of Seceding from The USA, we love our country, the principles of it anyway. The TPM and the rest of the Right can run away tails tucked all they want and when they're done having their meltdown... we'll still be here trying fix this mess, that every single American helped, in one way or another, create.

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