Hamas says now in 'open war' with Israel, promises 'gates of hell'

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by bpg131313

 

In reference to your post, it seems you were implying that Israel has plans for a "greater Israel" (which is a religious concept)..

Muslims are paranoid people. There is no society on earth where conspiracy theories run amok as dangerously as in the Muslim world. For instance, most people there believe Jews control the whole world, that the control the media, banking (ignoring all the gentiles who are also involved in these enterprises), that the Jews created Aids, were responsible for 9/11 etc. Its clear that this is just a case of projection, projecting all imaginable evils on one group of people.

Thus, to insist that there is merit in claiming Israel is actually planning for a greater Israel is antisemitic, because it is not based on any evidence, other than a "hunch" people have. And "hunches", are not good enough. "Hunches" led to the holocaust. Hunches like these are prejudicial and hateful.

There is no "large segment" in Israel that wants a greater israel, like you imply. The only party that could possibly be liable to that accusation was Kach, which was BANNED from Israeli politics. And anytime a conservative MK even suggests the notion of 'removing' Palestinians from Israel or the westbank, they're immediately lambasted. If this idea - of removing Arabs from Israel - is so unpopular, how can you imagine that Israel actually wants to create wars, damage their economy, their society??? There's no basis for it. It's a pluralistic society, with the left (labor) keeping an eye on the right (likud), and vice verca.

To begin with, you can stop throwing around ineffective scare-tactic words like "anti-semitic". As an Atheist, I disregard all Middle Eastern religions equally. Having gotten that out of the way, I'm still on Israel's side here. As for the whole "Greater Israel" thing, I don't care one way or another if they expand their borders or not. I know that military leaders want to increase buffer zones to protect their population. If you want to call those military expansions, "Greater Israel", so be it. I honestly don't care. As for what the majority of the Israeli population thinks about it, it doesn't really matter. What matters is what the people in power think. They are the ones who actually call the shots and will pull the trigger on incursions into other nations. They believe they are taking military action for the safety and security of the people of Israel. I think that's right action. The Palestinians know what they are doing. They aren't ignorant in this. Egypt and Syria haven't been innocent in all of this, and neither has Iran. Israel could easily expand their borders if they chose to do so. Their reasoning for it would be their own, and not my concern.

The Palestinians made a statement that the Gates of Hell have been opened. It's interesting that they make such proclamations. They announced that they were in "open war" with Israel. That's a declaration of war publicly made for everyone to hear it. The gloves can come off now. What Israel chooses to do is their business. I don't think it'll be a little operation, and I don't think it'll happen until the next new moon. That gives them a month to spin everything up and recall additional forces, make battle preparations, and make sure US additional resources are in place.

Breaking update:

Israeli forces move towards the Gaza border in prelude to possible ground offensive

- Associated Press

reply to post by Toadmund


reply to post by dontreally


Antiquated as compared to Israel.

I do not see any fighter jets taking off from the Gaza strip. I am not saying these weapons are not more deadly then compared to 10 years ago, but i am suggesting that the predictability of their yield and possible damage they can incur is less

reply to post by dontreally

Egypt still couldn't compete with Israel in a military conflict.

I wouldn't be so sure about that statement, were talking about a population of 90 million people, of which 35+ million are fit for Service and over a million active military personal currently serving, just based on numbers alone, Israel would be dwarfed, if Egypt called full on war, and crossed the boarder, Israeli's better start panicking.

Yet undoubtedly, the IDF have more trained and intelligent personnel.

Underestimating your enemy has been the death of many a man and army.
Whats makes you so sure Egypt are not as well trained and intelligent as the IDF.

Egypt also has a large naval force, and without america's full military support, you would be terribly outmanned and outgunned.

That's my educated opinion.

hamas will never quit attacking israel...they do not want peace, they want to kill off israel...this is what islamic jihadists do, they want to destroy and kill anything that IS NOT islamic, period. doesn't matter if it's israel, or western countries....that is their goal. forget what they say, it is in the quaran to lie and cheat to achieve this goal.
we in the west have to have a completely different mindset when dealing with them, never trust them, and always verify.

reply to post by majesticgent


Are you referring to the UN? The UN Is the seat of the One World Govt and at this juncture not necessarily even pro Israel. Look at how our POTUS has snubbed Israel in his term. It is possible that Netanyahu knows that the pro Muslim leader of the US is not going to give him much help in protecting his country. Obama is clearly biased towards Egypt and other Islamic countries.

The BIlderbergs want war and Global Taxes, so whatever happens on the world scene is going to be controlled by that factor.

Perhaps it would all make more sense if one realizes that the main players are all Bilderbergs and even POTUS is controlled by them and by the CFR. Leftists here suggest that BO is more of a centrist. But Soros is a Bilderberg too, so I guess left Hegelians are allowed in the club.

reply to post by bpg131313

To begin with, you can stop throwing around ineffective scare-tactic words like "anti-semitic"

You seem reasonable. If someone pursues an idea like 'greater Israel', despite all the evidence to the contrary, wouldn't it be logical to assume that this person has an axe to grind against Jews? And if he doesn't, he should be made aware that unjustifiable claims carry with them labels like 'anti-semite'. Not to scare the person, but to apprise them of the net-effect of their unjustifiable claims.

You have to be fair with people. If Israel's society, culture, is secular, why would they give a $hit about some biblical prophecies? To the minds of most Israeli intellectuals, the Bible is mythology. It's prophecies referred to a different time and place. All Israel really wants, when you get down to it, is to be acknowledged, accepted, and left alone.

If you want to call those military expansions, "Greater Israel", so be it

But why? They have never fought an expansionist war. Every land gain they have made has been while fighting on the defensive; even their desire to take the golan heights was because the golan has 'height' and thus, gives enemies the advantage of shooting into Israeli territory.

Every one of Israel's gains have had some practicable purpose. They won Sinai, did they keep it? Or give it away for to sadat for a 'promise of peace' (and the peace was made with a secular regime, not the muslim brotherhood)? That fact should suffice to demolish any theory that claims Israel has aims of acquiring more land. It's simply a libel that serves to delegitimize Israels existence.

They aren't ignorant in this. Egypt and Syria haven't been innocent in all of this, and neither has Iran. Israel could easily expand their borders if they chose to do so. Their reasoning for it would be their own, and not my concern.

Here's a possible idea. I'm only throwing this out there as food for thought.

Israelis are growing increasingly aware that the Palestinians will never make peace with them, and so, that there is no viability in a two state solution. Many logically assume, that, like Gaza, if Israel were to withdraw from the westbank, that the westbank would become a new Gaza. Therefore, if not a two state solution, what else is there? A one state solution - the annexation of the west bank and Gaza into Israel proper.

So, perhaps Israels longer term goals with the Gaza strip may be ousting Hamas altogether from power.. And perhaps occupying the region until a time when Israel could formally annex, and then, grant citizenship to the arabs of the westbank and Gaza. This would bring an end to a 'blockade', an end to the noxious Hamas propaganda, and would be a first stage in integrating Palestinian Arabs with the large Israeli Arab population.

reply to post by HumanObserver

Whats makes you so sure Egypt are not as well trained and intelligent as the IDF.

It's a statement based on complex analyses of how different types of societies produce different types of people.

In any case, this would go too off topic and might annoy a moderator. Suffice to say, my example of how the lifting of intellectual restrictions, from 1776, 1789, onwards, led to the intellectual and technological advancements of subsequent centuries.

Egypt, like most Muslim countries, is a pretty much unproductive state. Their Islamic fundamentalism prevents them from contributing to the growth of humanity in the sciences, humanities, arts etc. Israel, conversely, per capita, is the most productive country on earth; cells phones, computer chips etc, are the product of Israeli creativity.

This overall intellectual environment affects all areas of life, including the military.

reply to post by dontreally

They have never fought an expansionist war.

I beg to differ this quote by you, i believe it's always been about expansion on Israel part, this war with Gaza right now is a expansionist war, as once Israel takes Gaza, they won't be giving it back.

And perhaps occupying the region until a time when Israel could formally annex, and then, grant citizenship to the arabs of the westbank and Gaza. This would bring an end to a 'blockade', an end to the noxious Hamas propaganda, and would be a first stage in integrating Palestinian Arabs with the large Israeli Arab population.

Do you really think a one state solution will work, it will only evolve into a civil war.

Israelis are growing increasingly aware that the Palestinians will never make peace with them

And the rest of the world knows this Israeli administration also has no intentions of peace.

Originally posted by bpg131313

I don't think they'd take whole nations. I don't even see Jordan getting in on this at all. But Egypt might lose some property in this. Syria as well. Iran might get bombed in several nuclear sensitive areas. And for the Palestinians, it might be a sweep & clear operation. You have to remember that there are many who see this as their destiny over there.

It's just a matter of time before Jordan gets taken over by the Muslim Brotherhood too. They came out on October 5th demanding reforms to the current government and have been holding regular demonstrations and protests ever since. Today, the protest is over higher fuel prices that they're blaming on the King.

In addition, Jordan's government just recently foiled a terrorist attack by Al Qaeda on October 21st. Sound familiar? Al Qaeda and Muslim Brotherhood are currently working together. The Muslim Brotherhood is hiding behind Al Qaeda while trying to appear democratic in order to spread "political Islam" in the Middle East.

Here's an interesting article dating back to February 2011...

Psalm 83:6-8 lists a group of ten Arab populations that will someday confederate in a final attempt to destroy the state of Israel. The goal of the confederacy is to wipe Israel off of the map and set up one last Arab state called Palestine. Jordan is identified inside the list of nations as Edom, Moab, and Ammon. Their modern day equivalents are showcased inside the image.

To Jordan’s credit, it appears the Arab nation possibly gets drawn into the war with Israel reluctantly rather than voluntarily. Psalm 83:8 tells us that Jordan is one of the weaker members of the confederacy. “Assyria also has joined with them; They have helped the children of Lot.” (Psalm 83:8 nkjv)

Asaph, the Psalmist informs us the children of Lot who were Moab, the eldest, and Ammon require assistance in the war effort. They need Assyrian military support.

A complete list of the ten nations is included in the link.

www.bibleprophecyblog.com...

reply to post by dontreally


If Israel wants to bring Palestinian lands into their borders, that's their business, and quite frankly, a good idea. But to think that their population will merge with the Arab population in Israel seems a bit naive. Firing rockets into Israel would seem to be a poor choice if they wanted to end the blockade.

I think Palestinians will think that the world will come and protect them. I think they've miscalculated. I think Israel has some business to take care of on the battlefield and now that the Palestinians have declared "open war", the IDF and associates can do what their chain of command tells them to do. I've been on enough battlefields to know how things go down.

I'm no fan of Islamists. Multiple tours in the Middle East taught me that first hand. I'm with Israel on this one. We'll see how things go. I'd personally like to see them solve this problem with a permanent solution. It's up to the leadership to make that call. We'll sit here and watch.

reply to post by princeofpeace


How could Hamas be caught off guard? Even if they had only fired one rocket into Israel from Gaza, they should have expected retaliation. If I threw a beer bottle into my neighbors back yard I'd expect him to have something to say...let alone a hand grenade.

As quoted from Al Jazeera blog:

"One Israeli resident of Ramat HaSharon, a suburb north of Tel Aviv told Al Jazeera "There was an alarm 10 minutes from my house. Scary." He also said that he, like other Israeli military reserves, has been called up and must report in on Monday."

Notice, he stated that he had to report on Monday. This isn't an immediate muster of additional troops. They are taking their time with this. The potential for significant movement is high. I'm standing by my new moon thesis. It'll take time to get everyone on the same page. We'll see a lot of PR in the meantime.

Then there's this interesting link about Palestinians faking injuries on BBC news:

www.israelnationalnews.com...

reply to post by dontreally

It's a statement based on complex analyses of how different types of societies produce different types of people. In any case, this would go too off topic and might annoy a moderator. Suffice to say, my example of how the lifting of intellectual restrictions, from 1776, 1789, onwards, led to the intellectual and technological advancements of subsequent centuries.

You right it is rather going off topic, so i be a brief as possible.

The British built the Egyptian infostructure, and ruled it as our own country until 1954, and they are not as extreme muslims as you make out they are.

Anyway point being, don't be so sure of walking over Egypt, they are not as backwards as other Arab nations around Israel.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


Rothschilds are the real creators of israel and as you mentioned can be seen in Balfour declaration and also going back to Havaara agreement.

Zionists are basically Babylonian satanists who have hijacked Judaism just like how wahabi/salafi extremists have hijacked Islam. The zionist plan is to get rid of Dome of the rock mosque and revive the babylonian temple which was destroyed at the exact same spot and to finally establish it's borders from Nile to Euphrates.

The 'Arab spring' is basically israel/US plan is to fund/arm/help extremists into power across the region and to finally wipe them all out in one go to establish greater israel borders.

Mubarak, Asad, Gadaffi, Saddam, Ben Ali were secular dictators but the new replacement bunch are a totally different story.

Look at the bigger picture, it will all make sense:

reply to post by forklift

Look at the bigger picture, it will all make sense:

I am being totally honest here.

You will have to explain that map, it isn't making that much sense to me.

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by forklift

 

Look at the bigger picture, it will all make sense:

I am being totally honest here.

You will have to explain that map, it isn't making that much sense to me.

Both Iraq and Saudi are under US control.

Israel wants to expand its borders from Nile to Euphrates, and the only two remaining countries blocking israel's way is Egypt and Syria.

Extremists are put into power both in Syria and Egypt and they all wage a holy war against israel just like the 6 day war.

Israel/US K0 them all and israel finally gets to establish it's borders from Nile to Eupharates.

reply to post by forklift
Thank you.

What's the deal with the straight line that bisects Saudi Arabia?

What will these Satanists do once they have achieved this goal?

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by forklift

 

Thank you.

What's the deal with the straight line that bisects Saudi Arabia?

What will these Satanists do once they have achieved this goal?

edit on 15-11-2012 by butcherguy because: (no reason given)

The lines show greater israels final borders, that's what israel as a nation will look like after the total wipeout.

I don't know what the Zion-satanists will do after they have established their nation, but it definitely won't be any good for sure.

reply to post by forklift

Zionists are basically Babylonian satanists who have hijacked Judaism just like how wahabi/salafi extremists have hijacked Islam. The zionist plan is to get rid of Dome of the rock mosque and revive the babylonian temple which was destroyed at the exact same spot and to finally establish it's borders from Nile to Euphrates.

The 'Arab spring' is basically israel/US plan is to fund/arm/help extremists into power across the region and to finally wipe them all out in one go to establish greater israel borders.

That's what the Muslims want to think.

In the meanwhile, there's plenty of evidence to show that the "Arab Spring" has turned into a plan to spread "political Islam" (as Khamenei and Zawahri call it) throughout the Middle East and create a new Caliphate along the way.

I think the U.S. was duped into thinking it was only helping to spread democracy by supporting some of these Arab Springs, but in the long run we'll see that all we did was help to spread political Islam instead. I think the U.S. has finally figured this out. This is the only reason Syria hasn't been dealt with yet.