Hamas says now in 'open war' with Israel, promises 'gates of hell'

reply to post by butcherguy


They didn't do too well in Lebanon though fighting hezbollah.

Either way if Egyptians got involved, US would automatically send it's young brave men to sacrifice themselves for the safety of the Gods chosen ones.

Originally posted by butcherguy

Originally posted by khimbar
reply to post by dontreally

 

I've just been reading up on the Egyptian military, over 200 F16s and the 10th largest armed forces in the world. That, if they went all in, would even this out quickly.

Now the MB have a nice secure base behind them what better time to start flinging rockets into Israel, and when they dare to strike back, unite in righteous indignation and proclaim jihad.

Poke a bear long enough, even with just a small stick, and eventually the bear will bite. And bite hard.

edit on 15-11-2012 by khimbar because: (no reason given)

In 1948, 5 Arab countries invaded the newly formed country of Israel. Israel repulsed the invaders and captured land.
In 1956, Egypt blockaded Israeli shipping through the Suez canal, the gulf of Aqaba and the Straits of Tiran. In 1967, Egypt ejected UN observers from the border zone and massed troops on Israel's southern border. Israel in a pre-emptive strike, destroyed the Egyptian Air Force, then did the same to the Jordanian, Iraqi and Syrian Air Forces. As a result of the 1967 battles, Israel captured more land.
On Yom Kippur in 1973, Syria and Egypt staged a surprise attack on Israel. After Israel recovered, they counterattacked and made large advances through Syrian and Egyptian territory. After Israel encircled the Egyptian Third Army, the Soviet Union threatened to enter the conflict. This led to the US and Soviets brokering a ceasefire.

Yes, the Arabs could defeat Israel. They have tried before and the Israelis won despite being outnumbered in most categories, but that doesn't mean that they can't do it next time.

Israel also has the means (with American assistance) to sweep through and take those nations. It'd be extremely bloody, but there are many over there who see this as their destiny. The blood, to them, is justified. Knowing that Syria and Egypt are both flaring up, and Iran has been in their crosshairs for a long time now, they may very well be planning for the big event they've been wanting to partake in for a long time now. I get the sense that they are planning for something big.

reply to post by bpg131313


Israel?? You think Israel wants to "take" nations? i.e Egypt, Jordan etc?

This operation actually started a few weeks ago when Israel struck the rocket plant in Sudan that makes the rockets that they give to Iran then to Hamas. Israel hit that plant first. Then there have been limited rocket attacks from Hamas to which Israel responded but not very harshly so this round of action caught Hamas TOTALLY with therir pants down. They had no idea Israel woudl respond like this. Israel has already taken out most of Hamas long range rockets before they had a chance to use them.

Palestinian PM statement (not in full):

"To the Palestinian people I say, today you are up against a holy destiny. You are witnessing a new page of resistance, of victory of these people. We are completely sure, we are certain that we are closer to victory and liberation, God willing."

Facing constant navy and AF attacks, and the chance of +30,000 IDF troops being put into action, how are they considering achieving victory in all this?

"Those who fought in the cause of God, will be granted the reward from God.... We all witnessed the decisions made by the Egyptian leadership; I would like to express my great appreciation in the name of the people."

I find the "we all witnessed the decisions made by the Egyptian leadership".......odd. Which decisions?

"Times have changed, and leaders can no longer sit on their hands while our people are being preyed on."

"I call on the Egyptian leadership to remain in the circles of action, to follow this crime.... We, here in Gaza, will remain steadfast, unshaken, our resolve cannot be dented, with our steel will and firm conviction, and firm belief, we will fend off the aggression."

It seems nobody is willing to back off, or calm down. This could turn very ugly (even more).

If Egypt really wanted to quell the situation, they'd send in peacekeeping forces and convince Hamas to stop the rocket attacks, but I'm sure some type of concession with Israel would have to reached, but I'm not sure what that'd be.

Who am I kidding? That will never happen.

Originally posted by dontreally

Egypt still couldn't compete with Israel in a military conflict.

I'm not sure it's that simple. If they do join, then who else in the would be Caliphate might be emboldened to join in too? Might others be tempted to get involved?

Are there any other potential allies for them out there?

And if they do it's a short stop to USA/UK involvement.

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by bpg131313

 

Israel?? You think Israel wants to "take" nations? i.e Egypt, Jordan etc?

I don't think they'd take whole nations. I don't even see Jordan getting in on this at all. But Egypt might lose some property in this. Syria as well. Iran might get bombed in several nuclear sensitive areas. And for the Palestinians, it might be a sweep & clear operation. You have to remember that there are many who see this as their destiny over there.

reply to post by ISeekTruth101

yes he did have someone else write it...

Did you mean he had someone else physically write while he dictated? Because it was supposedly dictated to him by the Archangel Gabriel. I am just wanting clarification from you on what you mean.

There were some additions later.

Interestingly, I found something which says that one of the scribes which wrote down the verses suggested changes to the original and then left Islam.

Muhammad had scribes write his revelations down for him. One scribe was `Abdullah Ibn Sa'd Ibn Abi Sarh. As Sarh wrote these revelations down, he frequently made suggestions on improving their wording. Muhammad often agreed and allowed the changes to be made. Eventually, Sarh left Islam, knowing it could not be from God if a mere scribe were allowed to change God's word. Later, after the conquest of Mecca, Muhammad ordered Sarh's death.

www.answering-islam.org...

Now this article says that is proof that the Quan was tainted, but I am not certain that the changes were all that significant. We are channels for that which is given to us from God. Every person has a Higher Self which directs us, and it is a matter of how receptive we are to it.

Originally posted by majesticgent
If Egypt really wanted to quell the situation, they'd send in peacekeeping forces and convince Hamas to stop the rocket attacks, but I'm sure some type of concession with Israel would have to reached, but I'm not sure what that'd be.

Who am I kidding? That will never happen.

Israel seems to be taking out any "rocket pockets" that could threaten israeli territory. That fact has been proven since several rockets have hit Israel, despite the IronDome being fully functional - which, personally, is a matter of concern, considering how well praised that system was - and the IDF taking full measure to stop it.

They have been giving concessions for years. All ceasefire agreement or peaceful resolutions haven't prevented rockets being installed near Israel.

It seems the IDF wants to take away all Hamas's toys, and it appears that they won't stop until that job is complete.

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by Toadmund

 

People like you make ATS a horribly unintellectual place.

The government in Israel isn't even religious, their secular, yet you insist that their 'religious'.

Thanks for the insult. ATS has really become horrible AND disgusting because of my ilk, that is so true and we and I regret that.
Will you accept our apologies?

My belief is that the personal (not by country, or by political ideology) beliefs of politicians play a huge part in what side they take.
If the bible says to protect Israel and you are blessed to do so, you don't think church going Christian politicians are not influenced by that?

These sides taken are primarily religious in nature, not so much because we are liberal democracies and they are not.

Again, I am so sorry for making ATS such a horrible, horrible place.

reply to post by forklift

They didn't do too well in Lebanon though fighting hezbollah.

The conflict is believed to have killed around 1,300 Lebanese people,[42][43][44][45] and 165 Israelis.[46] It severely damaged Lebanese civil infrastructure, and displaced approximately one million Lebanese[47] and 300,000–500,000 Israelis.[25][48][49] After the ceasefire, some parts of southern Lebanon remained uninhabitable due to Israeli unexploded cluster bomblets.[50

2006 Lebanon War- Wikipedia

Hezbollah captured how much Israeli territory?

Either way if Egyptians got involved, US would automatically send it's young brave men to sacrifice themselves for the safety of the Gods chosen ones.

Maybe. Then again, Egypt invaded several times before, and no American GI Joes needed to get involved.

reply to post by bpg131313


In reference to your post, it seems you were implying that Israel has plans for a "greater Israel" (which is a religious concept)..

Muslims are paranoid people. There is no society on earth where conspiracy theories run amok as dangerously as in the Muslim world. For instance, most people there believe Jews control the whole world, that the control the media, banking (ignoring all the gentiles who are also involved in these enterprises), that the Jews created Aids, were responsible for 9/11 etc. Its clear that this is just a case of projection, projecting all imaginable evils on one group of people.

Thus, to insist that there is merit in claiming Israel is actually planning for a greater Israel is antisemitic, because it is not based on any evidence, other than a "hunch" people have. And "hunches", are not good enough. "Hunches" led to the holocaust. Hunches like these are prejudicial and hateful.

There is no "large segment" in Israel that wants a greater israel, like you imply. The only party that could possibly be liable to that accusation was Kach, which was BANNED from Israeli politics. And anytime a conservative MK even suggests the notion of 'removing' Palestinians from Israel or the westbank, they're immediately lambasted. If this idea - of removing Arabs from Israel - is so unpopular, how can you imagine that Israel actually wants to create wars, damage their economy, their society??? There's no basis for it. It's a pluralistic society, with the left (labor) keeping an eye on the right (likud), and vice verca.

Rumors around feeds have appeared that Netanyahu is hiding in a bunker.



...why? Aren't reenforced structures strong enough to withstand these type of rocket attacks?

Originally posted by GarrusVasNormandy
Rumors around feeds have appeared that Netanyahu is hiding in a bunker.



...why? Aren't reenforced structures strong enough to withstand these type of rocket attacks?

edit on 15-11-2012 by GarrusVasNormandy because: (no reason given)

I believe the rockets used by Hamas, though antiquated in technology, can have an unpredictable yield and effect. Coupled with the fact the Hamas does seem to not direct these things at anyone target, it makes sense he would be seeking shelter.

I feel bad because I doubt Palestinians have similar shelters and if they did, I doubt they could protect against the advanced weaponry of Israel.

I feel bad that Hamas hides their weapons in Mosques, Hospitals and Schools thus putting their citizens in harms way.

reply to post by MDDoxs


I would assume Hamas has improved their weapons since the last conflict and probably have weapons from Russia and China?
Just assuming here.

reply to post by MDDoxs

I believe the rockets used by Hamas, though antiquated in technology,

I just watched an Al Jazeera report that said Hamas' new rockets are of much higher quality than what they used 3 years ago. The Egyptians have been providing them with it - with the Egyptians lifting restrictions at the border with Gaza.

reply to post by MDDoxs


Yes, I know. They seem to be pretty random.

But, as an example, that attack that killed 3 israelis showed some slight damage to the house they were in, and those were normal habitation apartments.

It makes sense the PM is evacuated for safety reasons, any sane country would do that. But I was thinking it would be more normal for him to be placed in a reenforced building that could withstand a rocket strike, rather than an underground bunker.

Just seems a bit over the top, considering the threat. But I might be overlooking it.


ETA:

dontreally just answered my doubts: better rockets

reply to post by Toadmund


I believe DontReally is correct in that the govt of Israel is secular. Even the roots of the modern State of Israel were secular based on labor and socialist zionism. The Rothschilds family was very involved in the development of the State and even of the Balfour declaration. So Rothschilds was revered as a benefactor and supposedly buried in a Masonic graveyard. The Rothschilds were said to have Masonic roots, so there is an esoteric overly as well, which can be seen in the Supreme Court bldg, just like the Masonic symbolism in Washington DC.
In much the same manner, the US has a "secular" govt yet there was an early Christian foundation with a Masonic overly.
These things can be complicated and you just have to dig around for the truth.