Hamas says now in 'open war' with Israel, promises 'gates of hell'

Originally posted by Jobeycool
Unreal how people side with Palestine with this conflict.Even after you show them videos of kids being brainwashed they still don't believe how crazy radical muslims are.

edit on 14-11-2012 by Jobeycool because: (no reason given)

Are you [snip] serious ? Go watch Glen Beck or something. You are justifying actions of Israel by quoting the Bible, yet you bitch about radical Muslims. Pot calling the cattle black

Note:

As this issue continues to grow over the next days or weeks, so will this thread.

So... it would be the intelligent way forward to understand that staff eyes will be on this topic and this conversation.

Please stay away from personal attacks as they are already creeping in.

No-one needs to have posts removed, but...

Originally posted by captiva
To all you Israeli paid propogandaists on here, theres one thing that cant raise any sympathy for your Israeli cause.. That was the photograph of the phospher shells being fired into a young childrens school in 2009. Your justification now, falls only on deaf ears...we saw with our own eyes who the true terrorist is, and still is. Shame on Israel, the so called "Gods chosen people"........If it wasnt so terrible and unbeilevable, it would be laughable....only nobody is laughing nowadays.

Perhaps that could have been avoided if terrorists didn't hide weapons and rocket launchers in that school, or in mosques, or in houses, or hospitals... I love how you anti Israel propagandists leave that part out.

As for your reference to people who are informed about the situation in the region being paid propagandists, what an absolutely pathetic retort.

Let me tell you something, I'm a proud volunteer.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Also:

Help from Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan and its ISI,Kuwait, and Afghanistan, and Egypt.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Wait, your saying the CIA never funded Al-Qaeda because Osama Bin Laden said so? haha! Wait let me stop spewing milk form my nose.

What, you don't think Osama Bin Laden couldn't have maybe.. let's see, lied!?

I think it comes to the point know where we... compare notes.


www.theinsider.org...


www....[hate-site-nolink]/?p=95383

reply to post by Kang69


Yeah well seems others will disagree case in point:

Private individuals in Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states friendly to the United States are the chief source of funding for al-Qaeda, the Taliban and other terrorist groups, according to leaked US diplomatic cables.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Al queda created,funded, and maintained by themselves.

This thread is on fire.. So much hate on both sides of the argument.

reply to post by detachedindividual


Why didn't you dispute what I said?

Instead of the old "defenders of Israel" line, why didn't you give me the facts to disqualify my claim.

If the situation was reversed, you would say that the actions of a few can't paint the whole... right? Do you want me to pull that line from your archives? Or does that line only apply to those in your "defend at all cost folder"?

But wait, first you would have to prove that they intentionally fired on civilians...
Then you would have to prove that they intentionally did in the past, since you claim it as "again"

Let me try this like I was talking to a child having a tantrum...

I am going to point out some very obvious facts to you, that you know to be true, yet over look those facts, again to confirm your opinion.

These terrorists (I'll assume you would call a leader of Hamas a terrorist.... wait, I can't assume that since logic is not your motivating factor.)

Let me qualify it first, then you can dispute it, in some looper way, to validate your opinion, but I'll make the point none the less.

Hamas = Terrorist organization, that has a known, spoken and recorded goal of crushing Israel

This leader, that you are probably going to dispute is a terrorist, is hiding his base, rockets and men in civilian populations to accomplish exactly what it has - A sentimental response from people that hate Israel. The palestinian people that sit silent while these Hamas and fighters set up shop next to their childrens schools are beyond repair. It's their own damn fault... Right here in the US ... if they put a missile within 25 miles of my child or my home, out goes "but it's my home" and I pick my family up and MOVE... It is that damn simple.. There is no grey area... So.... They accept the building of these sites near homes, schools and hospitals.... As the old adage goes " you reap what you sow"

Now, let me throw your whole holier than thou right out the window.

I hate Israel - I think they are a bunch of media savvy cry babies that are responsible for countless crimes against humanity. I think they plan the holocaust card like a shield....

BUT, with that in mind, it makes you none less a drama queen, when it comes to anything Israel...

Originally posted by PieceOfThePuzzle
This thread is on fire.. So much hate on both sides of the argument.

Actually, if you look at the tone and the rationale of responses, I think the hate is coming from one side.

reply to post by ArtooDetoo


Easy, they can choose to abstain from violence. Violence only begets more violence. If they truly wish to improve their situation they would act like it. In the past, Israel has attempted to be reasonable, it resulted in the PA taking advantage of the situation tactically and launching rockets from a more desirable position.

Originally posted by Kang69
Wait, your saying the CIA never funded Al-Qaeda because Osama Bin Laden said so? haha! Wait let me stop spewing milk form my nose.

What, you don't think Osama Bin Laden couldn't have maybe.. let's see, lied!?

That is so pathetically predictable.

They guy lies when it's something you disagree with but tells he truth if it fits into your paradigm eh?

I think it comes to the point know where we... compare notes.

Limmie guess?

A youtube video?


Also did you even bother to read your own links?

Nowhere does it say the US funded Al queda.

Bin Laden's war against the U.S. would take the form of a prolonged terrorist campaign. In 1989, the same year that the Soviets withdrew from Afghanistan, bin Laden founded his international terrorist organization, Al Qaeda (The Base) to train fighters for the global jihad against America."

The 9/11 Forum is that way -------->

reply to post by HumanObserver

Now your the one being ridiculous, your going to need to source these claims.

They were speculative. I even wrote them in a manner where it could be inferred that it was just speculation.

Both the house of Saud and their western sponsors, are more than aware of their difference in philosophical outlook. That alone warrants speculation as to what both parties might be thinking about the intentions of the other; the west helps enrich the house of Saud by keeping them in power in Saudi Arabia. The House of Saud meanwhile helps support Islamist groups, such as the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, Al Qaida, and many others in the Muslim world. The big question is....Why?

Well, it would be idiotic to think their isn't a homegrown and grassroots basis for Islamisms success in Saudi Arabia. If the westerners wanted to carry out 'regime' change, they would encounter enormous difficulties.

The experiment of introducing liberalism in a Islamic world that just wont take it - like a patients body resisting a different blood type - showed that they might have to go about different means in dealing with the Islamist threat.

In any case, I was just speculating as to the deeper logic underlying the west's approach towards the Islamists. They of course are not ignorant of them. Yet, so many within the left are rabid supporters of Islam to the point of whitewashing any differences between Muslims, as if our westernized and liberal Muslims were indicative of Islamic civilization and society as a whole.

Here's a question concerning my Ron Paul post, why would he make up such a false statement, to congress ?

Ron Paul isn't a god you know. He may have falsified unconsciously, exaggerating, as people are wont to do sometimes.

Are you suggesting Ron Paul is a lying in that video ?

It doesn't matter what I think. Politics is a complicated subject, and all policitians to some degree 'lie' at times. If, perhaps, his strict libertarianism prohibits him from accepting US assistance or intercession in foreign matters, and since Israel is Americas biggest imbroglio, it stands to reason that it serves his interests to create the impression that Israel 'created' Hamas, even though they only helped arm it and bring it into relevance in Palestinian politics.

In any case, while I reject Ron Pauls foreign policy, I'm a libertarian at heart, student of Frederich Hayeks political writings etc.

And what makes you so sure your version about the creation of Hamas is true ?

lol @ my version. It's the truth, it's fact. Go look it up if you think I'm lying.

reply to post by Humanity4Ever


A lot of nerve huh? That's funny. What's funny is that I'm guessing you think questioning Israel has something to do with being anti-Semitic because of the Holocaust.

I'm guessing you've never seen Gaza?

Pulling out of this conversation and saying " i cant have an intellectual conversation with you" is a complete cop out and you know it.

Let me ask you something, do you hold the same judgment over other genocides? Do you think the indigenous people in North America that were slaughtered should own half of the US? How about the millions slaughtered under Lenin? We can go on and on about this, but you see my point.

Let me get this right, you get to excuse a country of it's war crimes because it's had a rough past? Well, that means you would have to excuse, EVERY country, you would have to not question every country in the world because of that logic.

But you know what it really is? People don't give a # about brown people. They don't care about the genocide of North American indigenous people, the only reason why you give a care in the world about Israel, is because you don't see movies depicting the slaughters of Native Americans. There is no Native American propaganda running through this country telling you to feel bad for what happened to there people.

Zionists use the Holocaust as a technique for you to ignore all truth and information, and use it simply for you to not question Israel's actions.


I have to go now, I'll be back later.

reply to post by Kang69

Hiding behind women and children? They wouldn't be hiding behind women and children if the US wasn't their in the first place. And if you honestly believe that 9/11 was orchestrated by 20 suadis who hit 75% of their targets and evaded NORAD for over an hour, then fine, you can live in fear 24/7 from the huge "terrorist threat" that is hanging over us everyday.

Well i have nothing but contempt for those who hide behind women and children, Well 19 Saudi Hijackers, Bin Laden, and Saudia Arabia they werent Jewish.

Then Hamas killing Israelis. Have you seen Gaza recently, or do you strictly turn off your mind when you look at the concentration camp harboring Gaza? Of course these people are going to fight back, their living in some of the worst conditions in the world.

To be honest I do turn "my mind off " to posts that are clearly nonsensical bigoted remarks.

Originally posted by lambs to lions
reply to post by ArtooDetoo

 

Easy, they can choose to abstain from violence. Violence only begets more violence. If they truly wish to improve their situation they would act like it. In the past, Israel has attempted to be reasonable, it resulted in the PA taking advantage of the situation tactically and launching rockets from a more desirable position.

Yeah abstain from violence while they watch Israel build more settlements and checkpoints. In fact, the Palestinians should commit mass suicide, that would solve all the problems.

Originally posted by detachedindividual

Originally posted by Humanity4Ever
Bare in mind though, it was Hamas that initiated the violence, yet again. The IDF cannot just sit back and allow the missiles to continue to rain down on their cities. They are targeting specific sites which are unfortunately hidden in or within close proximity of public buildings and in some cases, civilian areas. It's a no win situation for the IDF.

So the IRA bombing the UK for decades would justify the RAF bombing Irish civilians?

Not many nations think the way Israel does. But then again, if Israel actually had any intention of a diplomatic solution they wouldn't have walked away from the table, and continued stealing land from the Palestinians.

If Israel wanted to stop this, they could. They could hand over the land they have stolen from another people, they could lift the blockade on the people of Gaza, they could sit down at a table and actually have some dialogue. But they won't, and why? Because they are determined that they will wipe out the Palestinian people and claim their land for themselves. There is no other explanation for it.

I have to point another flaw that most of you anti Israel folks fail to be able to logically work past.

Please read this entire part, even the parts that are logically sound in facts and start to make sense.

So Israel doesn't have a friendly neighbor to speak of. Right?

Ok, so I am going to say it, though I'll get the standard lines for that one..

So surrounded by enemies...

The land that Israel is so reluctant to give up, is strategically MANDATORY for Israel's survival.

They are in a valley, virtually virtually impossible to defend without taking and keeping the high ground. As a human, I would love to say they don't need to hold the high ground "if we all get along" .......But the logical part of me knows it's necessary...

Stalemate - As a military or political leader, in these times, wouldn't give back an inch. If we were going to use logic, with the survival of Israel as my main goal.... I'd take more... and they will.

reply to post by SLAYER69


The US gave 3 billion dollars to Osama Bin Laden, and then he created Al-Qaeda. Gee, I wonder where the money came from to create his organization? The article I linked you specifically said the US gave Osama Bin Laden 3 bllion dollars. Your saying he did not use any of that money to create Al-Qaeda?

Originally posted by Kang69
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

The US gave 3 billion dollars to Osama Bin Laden, and then he created Al-Qaeda.

Prove it

reply to post by Kang69

Zionists use the Holocaust as a technique

Yea, of course, there's no historical basis for Jews fearing the resurgence of antisemitism.

It's funny. Jews setup the 'anti-defamation' league, and other such bodies, as a response to the holocaust, and now, 70 years later, people accuse Jews of using the holocaust as an excuse for the creation of Israel.

Besides the horridly immoral insinuation that Zionists were responsible for the holocaust, it ignores the fact the Zionism began in the late 1870's; the first Zionist conference was 1897, a good 50 years before the founding of the state of Israel.

And BTW, 3 million Israelis are "brown" sephardic Jews.

So much for your theory of racism underlying Americas support for Israel. Perhaps, Idk, liberal democracy and secularism has something to do with America's support for Israel?

reply to post by MobiusShaun


No matter how much force you use, you cannot make a square peg fit in a round hole. !!!

Israel should be situated in America, that's where they have the most support.