I will follow Jesus , will you follow Mahdi ?

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posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 09:51 PM
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Originally posted by mideast
I couldn't find much open mind people here , because my question involves open minds.

A very general question.

I think a single word could go a long way.

I want to say that what you appear to be trying to do here is, taken on the surface, admirable. I won't dig deeper for other motives because on this, I'd just prefer to believe you are trying to open genuine discussion. That is badly needed between Islam and the rest of the world.

After all, there are well over 1 Billion Muslims in this world and if even a fraction of them were of the violent jihadi mindset, it wouldn't simply have been a short war...we'd have lost before we even knew it started. The fact there is a fight at all attests to the fact neither Islam nor the West views is, in truth, as a war of Faiths or Civilization, IMO. If only more could understand the other....is my feeling.


You speak very much like another woman I came to know here at ATS. A very nice and intelligent woman from Bahrain. She was Shia Muslim and while she listened about Wicca as I prattled on...I returned the favor and interest while she spoke for hours about Shia Islam and some very critical factors about this conflict those in the West fail to see...despite it being right there as big as Neon lettering in a cemetery. I've already touched on it simply by saying the side of Islam my friend happened to be on. You can elaborate for the thread when or if you choose to.
She flew back to Bahrain, last I knew, just before the Chicago NATO fiasco. I hope she's well, with all sincerity..I learned a lot from her. I learned, above all else, how NOT to hate them all for the crimes of a few.


With that all being said...I'd like to make a suggestion as I made to her back then. She too was interested in helping people understand on a wider basis...and she also had the same stumbling block. I fully understand the inherent concepts of absolute right and even superiority in matters of Faith that Islam brings in it's teachings. I say nothing negative about it....as it's in context by anyone's definition. However, it comes through strongly enough in how you present anything to non-Believers that it almost instantly puts people of the defensive and then..offensive. All without really having been necessary...but it absolutely kills all chance of discussion on the spot.

Just my two cents...and, if I read you right in your intentions to help, my words of support. Many here DO have open minds. It's really just learning to keep that "back up...fight's ON!" reflex from cutting off anything productive, IMO.




posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 01:31 AM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 





However, it comes through strongly enough in how you present anything to non-Believers that it almost instantly puts people of the defensive and then..offensive. All without really having been necessary...but it absolutely kills all chance of discussion on the spot.


I have been caught in series of changes in outside world.

Even none-believers will take a side because of the big change.

And it will be more likely that they take side with the greedy side.

For the greedy side , goals will always justify the means.

And that is how they will attract any opposition group.

None believers are mostly disappointed of religion and change , that is how they will take side with the opposition of Jesus.

Although , maybe my logic is not 100 % right , but at least I persuade some people to to more investigation on the religion.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 01:37 AM
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Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by mideast
I knew it will be a tough challenge to bring such discussion in a place where many people are deluded.




^^ coming from a muslim who cannot distinguish between what is truth and what is lie, even when we show you the lies.


Just old discussion of

My religion is better than you.

While I don't see much Christianity from West.

It is more war and greed rather than love and modesty.

So I can't see any piece of true Christianity from west while you can not see much from Muslims.

But I believe it in my heart



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 01:47 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by mideast
If I follow whatever Jesus tells me to do , will you follow what Mahdi is asking you ?

Not a chance. For two reasons ...
1 - I don't believe that there actually is a 'Mahdi' ever coming.
2 - Even if there is a 'Mahdi', he/she/it will not acknowledge Jesus as God incarnate and therefore won't be someone who I'd want to follow.



the similitude of jesus before allah is as that of adam; he created him from dust, then said to him: "be". and he was.
3:59



relate in the book (the story of) mary, when she withdrew from her family to a place in the east.

she placed a screen (to screen herself) from them; then we sent her our angel (Gabriel), and he appeared before her as a man in all respects.

she said: 'i take refuge in the merciful from you! if you are fearful.

he said: "nay, i am only a messenger from thy lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son.

she said: "how shall i have a son, seeing that no man has touched me, and i am not unchaste?"

he said: "so (it will be): thy lord saith, 'that is easy for me: and (we wish) to appoint him as a sign unto men and a mercy from us':it is a matter (so) decreed."

thereupon she carried him, and retired to a far off place

19:16-22


parsquran.com...

So , we say that gods angle made her pregnant and you say god made him.

Right ?
edit on 15-11-2012 by mideast because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 02:40 AM
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reply to post by mideast
 


That's because Christians are killed regularly for trying to preach to Muslims . Carrying a bible over there will get you killed .



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 05:23 AM
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reply to post by EfficientP
 

Lemme guess. 7th Day Adventist? Every Christian is going to hell if they have as their main day of worship for God to be on Sunday and not Saturday .. Right? God isn't going to send anyone to hell for having a main day of worship be a few hours different than when other people have a main day of worship. Any god that would do that is a petty 'god' and not worthy of worship.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 05:27 AM
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reply to post by mideast
 


If you say that god's angel made jesus, that makes him half human and half angel. Angels are pure spirit and therefore incapable of procreation with a human. Therefore, it is impossible for Jesus to be half human and half angel.

Christians do not say that Jesus was made by God ... Christians say that Jesus IS GOD.

SInce Jesus is GOD HIMSELF, I have no need to follow any lesser creature.
Any Mahdi would be lesser than GOD HIMSELF.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 05:42 AM
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reply to post by mideast
 


I will follow the value that come down with them, the right value that came down since so long ago. They are just a human, not a value and moral guidance. The most they can do only as good example of human being.
The answer itself will be connected fully to the question of who we are, and why we are here on earth, and what for.

Anyway, the meaning of leader devided into two in islam. Khalifah as political leader and Imam as religion leader in a praying or teaching way, not in feudal hierarchy way. Jesus will come but wont bring a new law. As Imam Mahdi, it still need to be determined in what way the leadership he will be. So the question will remain until the time that happened.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 06:28 AM
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reply to post by mideast
 





So , we say that gods angle made her pregnant and you say god made him.


What part did you not understand in those verses where Gabriel said that he was only the MESSENGER and "the LORD saith: it is easy for me"? Gabriel was quoting the Lord there.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 08:46 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
reply to post by EfficientP
 

Lemme guess. 7th Day Adventist? Every Christian is going to hell if they have as their main day of worship for God to be on Sunday and not Saturday .. Right? God isn't going to send anyone to hell for having a main day of worship be a few hours different than when other people have a main day of worship. Any god that would do that is a petty 'god' and not worthy of worship.


We're supposed to worship everyday and keep everyday holy to him. This "sunday worship is the mark of the Beast" crap is pure satanic circular logic. If Sun-Day worship is the mark of the Beast what is Saturn-Day worship? Ah, but SDA's don't want their victims to think about that. I almost got suckered into that stuff and it took a jewish christian preacher Dr. Michael Brown to set me straight. They also like to ignore the Council of Jerusalem.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 12:58 PM
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After reading all the posts, i can say its an interesting topic, S n F for you OP.
Also a variety of views, some just not even worth reading.
.
But what bugs me is that as a poster before said, the anti-christ will declare himself god and i also read that he will do miracles similar as the Christ. That would be a real test for christians as a whole.
.
The test is simple to understand and very difficult to go through,
The test is "will you take the side of the one who is right or rather let the ego dictate and either hold back or outright oppose as the one doing the right things doesnt belong to your group or belongs to a group you hate or dont approve of"(the same about sticking to the one even after seeing him doing wrong/immoral acts)
it will be a test for the whole humanity, atheist, christians, muslims alike.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 02:17 PM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 



Look, if you think that Sunday is the right day and you want to keep following that day, that's ok. You truly believe that and God knows your heart.( he knows many people have followed the day established by the Catholic Church to be the Sunday and has been merciful) But in the Tribulation, when the Antichrist is here, going to the church on the mandatory day of worship will cost you your soul.There is a reason why the Illuminati keeps using the Sun and SunGod subliminals all over the place.


Also, Friday Sunset to Saturday Sunset is not from Seventh Day Adventism. It's the Jewish Shabbat; The true Sabbath day. Remember for if you are here in the Tribulation.

But also, you can take it to prayer and ask God to reveal to you the truth.

Fastforward to 5:16 and look what you see




I post here the following excerpt from an individual who from a young age became aware and involved into some type of occult magic underground of the Roman Catholic Church and reveals his life story experience and what he was privy to.In regards to what I said about the mandatory day, look at the following snippet and read for yourself what he reveals. If you want to get it into context read the whole story at the link provided.






www.insightsofgod.com...

[color=crimson]The Antichrist and the
mark of the beast :

[color=gold]On August 29, 1985, under the authority of
the Pope, 16 articles were written which justify
the events predicted in Revelation 13 : 16-18.
Because I personally took part in the meeting
which prepared for the publishing of these articles,
I will give you now the translation of the list
of these 16 articles, taken from the minutes of
this meeting, signed by Pope John-Paul II :


Article 1 : No one will be able to send a letter
by mail without the mark.

Article 2 : No one will be hired by a company
without the mark.

Article 3 : No child will be able to study if his
parents do not have the mark.

Article 4 : All armaments will be placed
under the authority of a unique worldwide organisation,
and no one will be able to buy or sell
them without the mark.

Article 5 : No one will be able to buy nor sell
food products, nor be a farmer, without this
mark.

Article 6 : No one will be able to make bank
transactions without this mark.

Article 7 : If someone doesn’t accept or goes
against these articles, he will be severely punished,
even up to the death penalty.

Article 8 : No one will be able to travel

Article 9 : All space exploration vessels will
be placed under the authority of this worldwide
organisation.

Article 10 : No one will be able to import or
export anything without having this mark.
Article 11 : There will a unique currency,
universally employed.

Article 12[color=palevioletred] : There will be a unique Church,
and all the members of this worldwide church will
worship on the same day, Sunday.

Article 13 : Poverty and destitution will be
eliminated. The standard of living in developing
nations will be improved.

Article 14 : No one will be able to hunt or fish
without this mark.

Article 15 : Every transportation company
worldwide will be particularly well treated.

Article 16 : No one will be able to receive
hospital care without having this mark.


www.youtube.com...





edit on 15-11-2012 by EfficientP because: (no reason given)
edit on 15-11-2012 by EfficientP because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 02:43 PM
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These petty arguments consume you, it is not your brother you should fear but the darkness that is coming.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 02:49 PM
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reply to post by EfficientP
 





Also, Friday Sunset to Saturday Sunset is not from Seventh Day Adventism. It's the Jewish Shabbat; The true Sabbath day. Remember for if you are here in the Tribulation.


No the sabbath was never originally tied to specific days, it was tied to phases of the moon like full and new moon (see Leviticus) . That's why the synogogue required 2 credible witnesses to determine when the sabbaths and high sabbaths began, in which the assemply would commence a trial to validate the witnesses credibility, because apostates did try to evoke a false sabbath by lying to the assembly so the jews would break the 4th commandment. The 2 witnesses would view murals of the moonphases painted on the synogogue wall and point to the ones they viewed.

Jesus is our Sabbath day, he bought our sabbath at Calvary. The word Sabbath means "the Rest", and Jesus fulfilled it's prophecy 2000 years ago when he purchased our Rest for spiritual righteousness by his blood which entered us into a perpetual state of sabbath. Now we keep sabbath everyday in his honor (or at least you should). Jesus purchasing us the Rest at Calvary fulfilled the Passover's prophecy. Now we belong to the Lord of the Sabbath (Lord of the Rest). This is the spiritual Rest, the physical Rest comes after Sukkot, the marriage feast of the Lamb and into his 1000 year reign.

Do not buy into this SDA exotericism, christianity is esoteric in nature and it always was, which is why Jesus criticized the pharisees for "washing the outside of the dish but never touching the inside" and "whitewashing tombs of prophets but the inside is full of death and decay" (paraphrased).



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 06:04 PM
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reply to post by logical7
 


If you read the Bible indepth you will find that Jesus warned of the Antichrist . There are ways for the Christians to very easily recognise the AC . The one thing that will sell the AC as he were Jesus is that in this Ezekiel 38 war the AC will halt the destruction of Israel so that the Temple can be rebuilt and the AC can sit in it . Zechariah chapter 14 ..You know him as Dajjal . This Temple is told of in 2nd Thessolonians chapter 2 . Many people who have never known or pulled away from Christ will be fooled and will cling to the part where Jesus save Israel . This is true but not the right time . After the Sanhedrin rebukes the AC he will seek to finish Israel for good . This is when Jesus will come back Ezekiel 39 .
Aside from the fact that Christ comes in the clouds it says he will come like the Sun rising . There will not be any question of it .



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 07:52 PM
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Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by logical7
 


If you read the Bible indepth you will find that Jesus warned of the Antichrist . There are ways for the Christians to very easily recognise the AC . The one thing that will sell the AC as he were Jesus is that in this Ezekiel 38 war the AC will halt the destruction of Israel so that the Temple can be rebuilt and the AC can sit in it . Zechariah chapter 14 ..You know him as Dajjal . This Temple is told of in 2nd Thessolonians chapter 2 . Many people who have never known or pulled away from Christ will be fooled and will cling to the part where Jesus save Israel . This is true but not the right time . After the Sanhedrin rebukes the AC he will seek to finish Israel for good . This is when Jesus will come back Ezekiel 39 .
Aside from the fact that Christ comes in the clouds it says he will come like the Sun rising . There will not be any question of it .

thats good to know that you know to identify the real Christ and not fall in the trap of the AC. I hope everyone knows these details.



posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 01:22 AM
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reply to post by SimonPeter
 


You make it seem like my decision is Jesus or hell, nice try buddy. I'm a sinner I confess, and I'm no better than a Muslim, Jew, Christian or Hindu so don't try and attempt to brain wash me with you're religious beliefs...

If anything it's people like you that would make me turn my back on Christianity.



posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 01:23 AM
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And what does the Quran say will happen at the end of times....

The Christians and Muslims will join forces and begin to win the war against the 'blasphemers' or 'Kafirs'....Only to turn against one another after the victory.



posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 01:28 AM
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reply to post by DeadSnow
 


You might need to do some research .You have no idea . Even if you don't believe you can see just whats coming to a life near you soon . No disrespect , but you sound like you're in the blind on this thing .



posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 01:32 AM
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reply to post by DeadSnow
 


You in your brash youth have already made that decision . Christianity would only cramp your style and that will not happen .Do as you will for as long as you can . Your harsh remarks points to your youth , I know I have been there .I had time to mellow a bit .Do you ?



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