I will follow Jesus , will you follow Mahdi ?

page: 10
6
<< 7  8  9    11 >>

log in

join

posted on Nov, 24 2012 @ 08:42 AM
link   
reply to post by FlyersFan
 



She provided the 'yes' to God saying she agreed to be His mother. She provided the egg. She provided the womb.

You make it seem as if God asked Mary for permission... to say a "yes" so Jesus could begin as an embryo.
The egg and the womb are of no use unless there is an intervention from a man. In Jesus' case God created him directly in the womb.


Luke 1:32: He (Jesus) will be great. Men will call him the Son of the Most High 'Most High" = God.

"Son of God" is a title. Adam and David were also called "son of God". Doesn't mean they are divine, does it?
Jesus being called "son of God" does not mean he was God.


She participated in the creation of His body, like my mother participated in the creation of my body.

For normal people, the "participation" involves the presence of the man... It implies a physical relationship between the man and the woman.
In Jesus' case God was NOT in a relationship with Mary. He simply willed the creation of a human being inside Marys womb. Instead Christians believe that God Himself was born as a baby in the womb of Mary.


However, there is enough evidence in scripture proving that point, that the vast
majority of Christians believe that Jesus is indeed God incarnate.

This "evidence" is flimsy and is what Im debating.




posted on Nov, 24 2012 @ 09:07 AM
link   
reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


Matthew 17 verse 5 is where the Transfiguration takes place . The voice out of the cloud was God the Father and he said This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him .
God said he Jesus was his Son .



posted on Nov, 24 2012 @ 09:41 AM
link   
reply to post by FlyersFan
 



She didn't create his soul anymore
than my mother created mine. (she didn't). She participated in the creation
of His body, like my mother
participated in the creation of my
body.

so God created your soul too and by that logic, you are son of God.



posted on Nov, 24 2012 @ 10:16 AM
link   

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
You make it seem as if God asked Mary for permission... to say a "yes" so Jesus could begin as an embryo.

He did ask permission. Luke 1:38 He announced that Mary was chosen to be the mother of Jesus and she said this BEFORE it happened ... "I am the Lord's servant," Mary answered. "May it be to me as you have said." Then the angel left her. She didn't become pregnant until after she gave her permission .. 'may it be done to me as you have said'. Otherwise, if she didn't give permission, it would have been RAPE.

In Jesus' case God created him directly in the womb.

In Mary's womb. With Mary's Egg. She's His mother. It's amazing the gymnastics you are going through to try to deny her this honor. But it's all there.

]Jesus being called "son of God" does not mean he was God.

Believe what you wish. The quote says .. he will be great, called Son of the Most High. And elsewhere Jesus Himself said 'if you have seen me then you have seen The Father'. Jesus is God. If you don't want to believe it .. then don't. No one is forcing a 'convert or die' upon you ... Too bad that Mahdi dude wouldn't be able to say the same.

For normal people, the "participation" involves the presence of the man... It implies a physical relationship between the man and the woman.

Of course they didn't have sex ... but Mary still was a particpant. She provided the egg. She provided the womb. And 'the Holy Spirit overshadowed her' (that was the conception). She is the Mother of Jesus .. who is God Incarnate.

This "evidence" is flimsy and is what Im debating.

It's all there. You just don't like it because it doesn't match up with your beliefs.

Look .... whatever dude. Believe whatever you want. Others will believe what they want.
Like I said .. just be glad that no one is forcing a conversion on you at the point of a sword
or at the end of a gun barrel. (like that Mahdi dude is supposed to do). Just beleive what
you want and LIVE AND LET LIVE and be happy. We'll all find out the truth when we die.
edit on 11/24/2012 by FlyersFan because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 24 2012 @ 11:08 AM
link   
Mary the Mother of God

A woman is a man’s mother either if she carried him in her womb or if she was the woman contributing half of his genetic matter or both. Mary was the mother of Jesus in both of these senses; because she not only carried Jesus in her womb but also supplied all of the genetic matter for his human body, since it was through her—not Joseph—that Jesus "was descended from David according to the flesh" (Rom. 1:3).

Since Mary is Jesus’ mother, it must be concluded that she is also the Mother of God: If Mary is the mother of Jesus, and if Jesus is God, then Mary is the Mother of God. There is no way out of this logical syllogism, the valid form of which has been recognized by classical logicians since before the time of Christ.

Although Mary is the Mother of God, she is not his mother in the sense that she is older than God or the source of her Son’s divinity, for she is neither. Rather, we say that she is the Mother of God in the sense that she carried in her womb a divine person—Jesus Christ, God "in the flesh" (2 John 7, cf. John 1:14)—and in the sense that she contributed the genetic matter to the human form God took in Jesus Christ.



edit on 11/24/2012 by FlyersFan because: fixed quote



posted on Nov, 24 2012 @ 12:26 PM
link   
reply to post by FlyersFan
 



He did ask permission. Luke 1:38 He announced that Mary was chosen to be the mother of Jesus and she said this BEFORE it happened ... "I am the Lord's servant," Mary answered. "May it be to me as you have said." Then the angel left her. She didn't become pregnant until after she gave her permission .. 'may it be done to me as you have said'. Otherwise, if she didn't give permission, it would have been RAPE.


It had NOTHING to do with "permission".
God chose Mary to be the one to carry the messiah.
Mary said "May it be to me as you have said." because it was an honor to be favored by God.



In Mary's womb. With Mary's Egg. She's His mother. It's amazing the gymnastics you are going through to try to deny her this honor. But it's all there.


Did Mary create her eggs, womb etc? No.

God just used one of His creations(Mary) to create another (Jesus)

Its like me owning a lone female goldfish in a bowl...and then (hypothetically) willing the goldfish produces offspring. It doesn't mean that I am physically responsible for the goldfish producing offpspring.


Believe what you wish. The quote says .. he will be great, called Son of the Most High. And elsewhere Jesus Himself said 'if you have seen me then you have seen The Father'.


Jesus meant if you have seen me, its as good as seeing the Father.
So did Jesus say he was the Father? If so, then whats the point of the trinity?



Of course they didn't have sex ... but Mary still was a particpant. She provided the egg. She provided the womb. And 'the Holy Spirit overshadowed her' (that was the conception). She is the Mother of Jesus .. who is God Incarnate.


The only reason why Mary was even able to provide the egg and the womb was because God designed the human female to have eggs and womb. Its all (c) and (tm) of God. God used His own design of the human female to bring Jesus into the world.



posted on Nov, 24 2012 @ 01:42 PM
link   
reply to post by FlyersFan
 


you mean, Mary is mother of God(The Father)?
God created His own mother? And made Himself be born through her?
or Jesus pbuh is not the same God?



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 12:41 AM
link   
Logical7 you have no responce to the scripture stating God said Jesus was his son ? Kinda shoots your theory in the foot that Jesus was not the Son of God .



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 12:58 AM
link   
reply to post by SimonPeter
 



Logical7 you have no responce to the scripture stating God said Jesus was his son ? Kinda shoots your theory in the foot that Jesus was not the Son of God .


Scripture also shows us that "son of God" is a title. Adam and David were also called "son of God". So does it mean they were divine as well?

David wrote in the psalms
"I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, "Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee."
-Psalms 2:7

edit on 25-11-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 01:02 AM
link   
reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


The words of God says this is my Son and I am well pleased in him . God put the seed in Mary and Jesus was born of God the Father and Mary . How can you sit there and try to say otherwise . Is lying acceptable in spiritual things in Islam ?



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 01:07 AM
link   
reply to post by SimonPeter
 



The words of God says this is my Son and I am well pleased in him . God put the seed in Mary and Jesus was born of God the Father and Mary .


"Son" in what sense? In the way human fathers have sons which they pro-created with their women?
You are implying that there was a relationship between God and mary.




How can you sit there and try to say otherwise . Is lying acceptable in spiritual things in Islam ?


Does Christianity teach you to insult the Creator, by saying He fathered a son with a human mother?
edit on 25-11-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 01:27 AM
link   
reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


That is exactly what God the Father did . Mary was virgin until after Jesus was born . Notice how the Father used a pure vessel like Mary to form the seed of the Son of God within her womb . No sex was involved .as you would suppose . Now take the vessel called Mohammad that was a vile corrupt vessel full of sin . Why would God use that unclean vessel when no doubt there were other pure vessels to do his will if he needed anything done after Jesus . Would Satan use such a vessel full of sins ? Logic says no , God would not use the tainted vessel for Holy things . But Satan would .



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 01:51 AM
link   
reply to post by SimonPeter
 



That is exactly what God the Father did . Mary was virgin until after Jesus was born . Notice how the Father used a pure vessel like Mary to form the seed of the Son of God within her womb . No sex was involved .as you would suppose .


Of course there was no sex involved, God simply simply created Jesus inside the womb of Mary.
My question to you is simple...
When you say Jesus was the "son of God", do you mean it as a title, as in the case of Adam and David?

OR

Do you say Jesus is the literal son of God? Then you are implying there was a relationship between God and Mary, who was the literal mother of Jesus.


edit on 25-11-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 01:52 AM
link   
reply to post by SimonPeter
 




Now take the vessel called Mohammad that was a vile corrupt vessel full of sin . Why would God use that unclean vessel when no doubt there were other pure vessels to do his will if he needed anything done after Jesus

That you see Mohammad as an unclean vessel is your perception. I'm not going to attempt to change your belief, you will have to come to that conclusion yourself.

The scriptures show that Mohammad fulfilled the prophecies Isaiah 42. He was the servant of God who operated in the wilderness and shamed the idolaters. No Jewish or Christian prophet ever achieved this. Only Mohammad cleaned Arabia of its idolatry/polytheism and established a religion that worships the God of Abraham and Moses and Jesus...and accepts Jesus as messiah.



God would not use the tainted vessel for Holy things But Satan would .


a) Paul was a zealot who hated Christians and worked to make their lives miserable. He was far from being a "pure vessel". So there's no reason for you to think God work through such a "tainted vessel" like Paul.

b) You say Mohammad was controlled by Satan. Well, Jesus was also accused of using the power of demons to drive out demons.... and you know his response, ""how can Satan drive out Satan?"

The Koran teaches against Satan... so, like Jesus said... there's no reason to think Satan would try and work against himself. The Koran is no exception.



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 08:26 AM
link   

Originally posted by SimonPeter
Logical7 you have no responce to the scripture stating God said Jesus was his son ? Kinda shoots your theory in the foot that Jesus was not the Son of God .

my responce is the same as sk0rpi0n. It was a metaphorical address to Jesus pbuh.
How you take other prophets being called "son" as metaphorical but take Jesus pbuh as literal?
.
You know the bird turkey can reproduce without a male, its called parthenogenesis. does that make the baby turkey offspring of God? I'l take it as miracles of God.
.
A miracle by definition is something that is not a normal way of things happening. And God does it to support His prophets to get a better reception to the message, among the people.
.
Jesus pbuh called God as Father for everyone (remember Lord's Prayer?) Metaphorically.
God made John the baptist pbuh to be born to a barren old couple and Abraham pbuh had sons at old age. God is in control all the time.
.
Putting the Blame! of fathering a son on God is Preposterous!
God is Eternal and Ever Living, offsprings are needed for mortal creations of God.
Answer me this, if what you say is true, would Jesus pbuh have a son? Would he get a wife, a family? Or eternally be alone walking with you? No personal life for himself just making it all sweet and rosy for christians?



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 11:49 AM
link   

Originally posted by mideast
That question is

If I follow whatever Jesus tells me to do , will you follow what Mahdi is asking you ?


Why should they, and why should you?
Those are the questions which are actually important.



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 02:56 PM
link   
So now you are calling God a liar and the Virgin Mary some kind of a mutant . Just because you have found it prudent to follow a murdering thief and a corrupt spirit you now feel it would be alright for God to lie . The Jewish Bible is the basis for your Quran and now you feel it is ok to follow your Islam which is a derivative of the Bible which you now despute as incorrect and now you say God lied . What gives ?. Anything to justify Mohammad ? What a great example of a true prophet .He could not be of God!!!!!!reply to post by logical7
 



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 06:34 PM
link   
reply to post by SimonPeter
 


I dont believe Bible is the basis of Quran, Its a revelation from God clearing up the lies that were made about Jesus pbuh and restoring pure monotheism again.
A restoration to the forgotten covenant when a new one was invented by people with selfish interest to fool the masses.
Before going for the defense "is God liar?" maybe you should ask, is their a chance if you were lied to by people you trust.
If your faith is true, there's no need to put down other faith and i see that vilifying islam is a big need to keep people away from it. You are a victim of that too.
Honestly ask yourself if you ever objectively read about islam? Islam is not alien at all. Its just going back to the narrow path that Jesus pbuh advised.
Mahdi and Jesus pbuh would be on SAME side and coming of mahdi would be a sign that Jesus pbuh would come soon(in mahdi's lifetime but after coming of AC)
And it would be Jesus pbuh who would unite all to make just one religion. Mahdi would unite the muslims and make the world better and just before Jesus' pbuh 2nd coming.
It fits like a self solving puzzle, the three monotheistic faith exist because Jews rejected Jesus pbuh(all jews should have become messianic jews) and then christians and jews both rejected Prophet Muhammad pbuh, but Jesus pbuh coming 2nd time will leave no doubt that God wanted all people to unite and keep a pure monotheistic belief.



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 11:38 PM
link   
reply to post by logical7
 


Jesus did already bring us the one faith .A lot of Jews were Christians at the time of his death and ressurection . But you go your way , as for me and my house we will serve the Lord .



posted on Nov, 26 2012 @ 08:59 AM
link   

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by logical7
 


Jesus did already bring us the one faith .A lot of Jews were Christians at the time of his death and ressurection . But you go your way , as for me and my house we will serve the Lord .

we still have Jews right? And now there are three major faiths who believe in One God yet dont agree with each other. 2nd coming will solve that. We have the same God even when we dont agree to His Characters. Muslims are following the Creed of Abraham pbuh, he was a pure monotheist, neither a jew nor a christian.





top topics
 
6
<< 7  8  9    11 >>

log in

join