Obama wants a $1.6 Trillion tax increase -- Here comes the Gordian Knots !

Originally posted by Trustfund
Remember when republicans caused the credit rating to drop in the US? Remember that? Because they wanted to make their Koch overlords richer and look like they stuck it to the dems, whilst making Obama look bad.

edit on 14-11-2012 by Trustfund because: (no reason given)

Huh?

I thoughtObama was president then. I thought it was because of his spending and lack of budgets.

Wow. Go figure!

reply to post by beezzer


lol? Because the president can vote on a debt limit increase?

How the Koch's make millions if Republicans crash the Gov?



Any republican that is obsessed with the debt ceiling and cheering it to collapse should read this article by Paul Craig Roberts. He was part of the Reagan admin and co-founded Reaganomics.

The whole republican debt ceiling charade was nothing more than to help their rich friends get richer, have an excuse to strip away social programs, and make Obama/democrats look bad.

This brings us to the most important aspect of the debt ceiling “crisis” that the Republicans are ignoring.

If Republicans become obsessed with their agenda and refuse a reasonable deal, and the Democrats do not cave, the executive branch will be faced with an inability to continue its operations. This could mean, for example, that the troops in the various wars could not be supplied or paid, that air traffic controllers could not be paid, that the US government could not roll over the debt that comes due or issue the new debt that pays for 43% of federal budget expenditures. A shutdown today would be different in its reach from the Newt Gingrich government shutdown in the 1990s. Then the federal government got by with shutting down "nonessential government.” A shutdown today would require halting 43% of federal expenditures. If we were to include the wars, nonessential spending might actually total 43% of expenditures. But, of course, Republicans don't want to include the wars with nonessential spending.

The US dollar could plummet in exchange value and lose its role as world reserve currency. The US would no longer be able to pay its oil bill in its own currency, and as its balance of payments is heavily in the red, the US has no foreign currencies with which to pay its oil import bill. Or its manufactured goods import bill, or any other bill.

We are talking about a crisis beyond anything the world has ever seen. Does anyone think that President Obama is going to just sit there while the power of the US collapses? He doesn’t have to do so. There are presidential directives and executive orders in place, put there by George W. Bush himself, that President Obama can invoke to declare a national emergency, suspend the debt ceiling limit, and continue to issue Treasury debt. This is exactly what would happen.

The consequences would be that the power of the purse would transfer from Congress to the President. It would be the end of the power of Congress. Congress, Republicans and Democrats alike, have already given away to the President Congress’ Constitutional right to decide whether the country goes to war. Now Congress would lose its power over debt, taxes, and the budget itself.

Republicans need to decide whether the advantage of delivering a blow against “leechdom” is worth such extreme risks.

globalresearch.ca...

reply to post by Trustfund


So the debt limit DIDN'T increase??

It's no different than selling a used car. Start high, let them work you down and think they won.

Yeah well the koch brothers don't have a damn thing to do with Obama raising taxes 100+ billion a year for a decade.

As if it is going to fix anything.

Case in point:



Those tax increases are not going to pay for the major problems in this country.

46.9 percent with zero federal income tax liability at the cost of over 2 trillion considering they are using more of those federal funds which leaves over 1 trilllion dollar deficit.

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by Trustfund

 

So the debt limit DIDN'T increase??

Did you forget really recent history? Republicans held the debt ceiling hostage and wouldn't' negotiate..... this lead to the downgrade.

They had nooooooo problem voting and fighting for a debt ceiling increase for Bush tho.....

reply to post by Trustfund

To avoid a downgrade, S&P said the United States needed to not only raise the debt ceiling, but also develop a "credible" plan to tackle the nation's long-term debt.

money.cnn.com...

Um, ta-da!

reply to post by Trustfund


We haven't forgot this:



Really nice to see people try to have it both ways.

reply to post by xuenchen


WE GET IT! YOU HATE LIBERALS! NO NEED TO KEEP THREAD-RAPING US!

Give it a rest already.

If only Mitt had won, we'd be drinking from platinum chalices and everyone would automatically transform into the monopoly guy, right?

reply to post by neo96


Cut everything except military spending, social security and medicare and you still have a massive growing deficit.

reply to post by neo96


The bottom tier on your chart collectively own and control less wealth than the top 10,000 families on your chart. So much for that plan.

Originally posted by 0zzymand0s
reply to post by neo96

 

The bottom tier on your chart collectively own and control less wealth than the top 10,000 families on your chart. So much for that plan.

Want to try agian?

www.usdebtclock.org...

Between SS,Medicaid,Medicare they are consuming the most federal tax revenue and those programs are collectivley owed 121 trillion dollars.

Originally posted by ColAngus
reply to post by xuenchen

 

WE GET IT! YOU HATE LIBERALS! NO NEED TO KEEP THREAD-RAPING US!

Give it a rest already.

If only Mitt had won, we'd be drinking from platinum chalices and everyone would automatically transform into the monopoly guy, right?

edit on 14-11-2012 by ColAngus because: (no reason given)

Get up on the wrong side of the bed today did WE ?

Relax, WE only talk here.

Obama Inc. is doing more than talk'in.

Just be aware of who will pay in the end !!

The election is only a week old and already it seems like 2 years.

Watch what happens when the real "2nd Term" begins

The issues haven't changed.

Neither have the failures.

btw, what should WE think of this double up tax increase strategy ?

reply to post by xuenchen


Now that he's locked in, I hope he gets super-leftist on you crybaby whiners.

The first term was the bait-and-switch, now comes Obama Marx. Enjoy.

Oh, and yeah, I voted for Gary Johnson, so you can toss aside the comeback on that one. Instead of blubbering about liberals and Democrats, how about you look at it from a non-partisan view?

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by Trustfund

 

To avoid a downgrade, S&P said the United States needed to not only raise the debt ceiling, but also develop a "credible" plan to tackle the nation's long-term debt.

money.cnn.com...

Um, ta-da!

Um, what is your point? Thanks for re-affirming what I just said. Republicans wouldn't raise the debt ceiling, causing doubts, wouldn't agree to a plan and the credit was downgraded. This was 100% political in nature.

Then went onto play more political games;

Debt Ceiling Debacle: GOP Backs Out Of Deal

reply to post by ColAngus

The first term was the bait-and-switch, now comes Obama Marx. Enjoy.

More like Obama-fascist.

Obama is no Marxist, he isn't for the people.

And the taxes debate starts to get heated, as the propaganda machine keeps blaming Bush tax cuts for the rich while Obama the Saviour wants to lobby for the poor.

Tax the rich said the masses, yeah Tax the rich, but nobody is listening to the truth agenda behind this tax debate, Obamacare needs a tax increased more than one but government can not force the working class to come forward for this taxes hell not.

Those running the Fed have essentially used up all of their bullets and the next great financial crisis has not even fully erupted yet.

So what is the Fed going to do if the stock market crashes and the credit market freezes up like we saw back in 2008?

How much more extreme can the Fed go?

One can just picture "Helicopter Ben" strapping on a pair of water skis and making the following promise....

"We are going to print so much money that we'll make Zimbabwe and the Weimar Republic look like wimps!"

Sadly, the truth is that money printing is not a "quick fix" and it never has been. Just look at Japan. The Bank of Japan is on round 8 of their quantitative easing strategy, and yet things in Japan continue to get even worse.

But that is not going to stop the folks on Wall Street from calling for even more quantitative easing.

theeconomiccollapseblog.com...

Stop Bush era taxes said the masses but hell what taxes when the Fed is allowing the Treasury to be printing billions a month for Wall Street

But most pressing on the domestic front is the so-called "fiscal cliff," the combination of tax hikes and spending cuts that will hammer the economy come January unless Congress and the White House strike a deal.

www.foxnews.com...

Read more: www.foxnews.com...

Is Obama going to stop the Fed give away?

People have not clue yet that what the supreme court did to Obama mandate was no a favor it was the biggest mess he will be facing in his presidency

Obama wants to do this and that is all we hear, right? guess what people, the debt will keep growing we will be faced with another crash and meanwhile taxes unemployment and hardship will be heading the working class in America

America is run by Banksters, the Wall Street mobsters and the Fed schemers.

Betting on futures is what Wall Street does the best it seems that our politicrats think they can do the same while promising greener pastures no right now, but ten, twenty years from now, but they forget that the mess and the debt will keep growing and piling one administration at a time.

Wake up people is nothing the crocks can do right now to fix anything is just empty promises

Sadly no president regardless of political affiliation that will sit in the white house can do a darn thing about it.

I'm no economic wiz, but let me see if I have this straight...
Let the bush tax cuts expire for top 2%
OR
Let the bush tax cuts expire for the whole 100%

Seems sorta like a win-win for the revenue hawks. I have a feeling that the democrats will take a page out of the republican book and make unbreakable promises to not compromise just to look tough and get their way, just like the Republicans have done for the past few years. To hell with compromise! I WILL have my cake AND eat it too!

Regardless, all I've seen so far are talking points. "Close loopholes and deductions" "Raise taxes on people making more than $250,000 a year" "We have to cut entitlements and keep tax cuts" "We have to ask the people making the most to pay their fair share" "We have to reach across the isle, roll up our sleeves, and get it solved"
What I haven't seen? Any actual loopholes, deductions, budget cuts, or reaching.

Also, why did they set up the "fiscal cliff" in the first place? The story goes that they wanted to force a settlement to the negotiations, but why did they think it was a good idea? Both sides know they won't bow to the other.

reply to post by MeesterB


Is not fixing, no fixing possible in any way or form that the Administration can come out with in "Reality" to fix anything, you have a body in our government that can do as they wish with their ability to get money printed by the treasury without the president approval and is doing that printing since 2008, this money is been printed at a rate of billions a month that also add to the growing deficit.

This money is not to benefit the hard working Americans is to keep bailing out the Markets filfthy rich banksters so they can stop the next crash.

America is at the point of no return when it comes fiscal responsibility at all.

And no you don't need to be a genious or a market guru to know that just add one plus one.

It starts with a balanced budget...you know...balanced...where you are not deficit spending.

Then...you increase the revenues to address the 16 trillion national debt.

I can understand why no one wants ot pay more taxes right now...I don't either...throwing good money after bad is useless. You have to have a budget based on the "minimums"...and yes that is going to mean lots and lots of cuts....I mean lots of cuts. Cut things back to where the were about a decade ago or so....

After that is done and the budget is actually balanced...THEN you talk about revenue increases to pay down the national debt and lessen the interest that is coming...that is going to be the show killer folks...you think they are spending in the hole now? Wait till the interest goes back up to say 3 to 4 % ....try to figure out what the interest payments would be on 16 trillion...now imagine that getting scooped off the top of each years incoming revenue. Think we don't have enough money now?

We balance the budget now and increase revenue after that is done to address this debt...or...you ain't seen nothing yet.