What is the Mark?

Originally posted by stupid girl
reply to post by MrCobb

 

I have long-since believed that this is one of the things that will truly remain a mystery until, and only when, divine understanding is imparted.

Yes indeed. I've come to realize that pure rational inquiry is completely useless, and understanding is actually only ever divinely imparted. Now, I know "who is this guy? Just another person on the internet" but to anyone listening, I can 100% assure you that what I'm saying here is true. When you correlate the info in the bible, it will always yeild one specific answer; but most people don't correlate the biblical information, the simply see one statement in the bible, the turn to reality and look everywhere trying to "see" the answer they "think" the writer "might" be talking about- and then you get "microchips" "carbon atoms" "tatoos" "Tickle-Me Elmo" and anything and everything that the mind can imagine all by itself.

But, if you simply correlate the info inside of the information-set of the written word, you find that these men are all simply correlating all the words and phrases with one another to "paint the big picture" as it were. Each one building on the words of the others so that when you correlate them the come togather to bring things into sharper focus. In this case a "mark on the hand and forehead" can only mean the Passover mark/sign/token on the hand and forehead. This mark signifies which G/god brought you out of bondage. Now, this Passover mark is the one and only hand/forehead mark you'll ever find specified in the bible. So if we correlate the words, this is the one and only thing John can be talking about by his use of the idea of receiving a mark on the hand and forehead. That's if we're only correlating the info given by way of the written word.

If we're engaging in an "apocalyptic scavenger hunt", reading John's words, then ignoring the one and only thing in the bible that also marks the hand and forehead, and looking around in the world trying to "find the thing I think John might be talking about" well, you'll be able to find the mark everywhere- leading to "microchip! bar code! computer mouse!" ad nauseum.

But, the truth is, it's the Passover mark, and the false prophet comes as a false Jesus to "mark" anyone who wants to accept him as the TRUE prophet- hint: everyone in the world except the "overcomers" will accept him as the "god that brought us out of bondage"

Ex 13:16 And it shall be for a token upon thine hand, and for frontlets between thine eyes: for by strength of hand the LORD brought us forth out of Egypt.
Ex 32:8 They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.

The "golden calf" is just a picture/preview of the false prophet; this event at Sinai is (just like every other event in the bible) a "dress rehearsal" of the second coming: and what will Jesus find when he returns?

19 And it came to pass, as soon as he came nigh unto the camp, that he saw the calf, and the dancing: and Moses’ anger waxed hot

If you haven't, you should check out my thread "timing is everything" in the P&P forum.

reply to post by seethetruth


Dear seethetruth,

if you are lucky enough to be in a job and working and you told your boss you will not work on Saturday because it is the sabbath you would more often then not lose your job so then you can not buy or sell ,

It says nobody would be allowed to buy or sell. Wouldn't people on pensions and social securty be able to go to church on Saturday and still buy and sell? It is not for being fired because you will not work on Saturdays. A mark is a mark, something that others can see, just like Cain was marked so that people would not harm him.

reply to post by stupid girl


Dear stupid girl,

Once again you prove you are not stupid. I find your hypothesis very interesting and cannot deny it is a possibility.

One of my personal speculations was that the mark would somehow entail genetic manipulation also. A few of my reasonings behind that personal conclusion was that we are told that men will seek death, and not find it; and we are told that only those who receive the mark will join the Enemy and his cohorts in eternal punishment. From what I understand at this point in my spiritual endeavor, all other souls who have not taken the mark but have also not chosen redemption, thus unable to partake of eternal life which is only given by and through Christ, will die the second death at the Great Judgment and be what the Bible refers to as "no more."

We know that the lives of mice can be tripled if certain gene therapies are applied. A modification of peoples DNA can also be considered a mark. I have a couple of problems thought, the mark is the name of a man. While you can effect 666 genes, it would not equate to the name of a man. In addition, no amount of genetic modification would allow someone to live forever, accidents still occur.

The word mark as used in the bible refers to a physical mark as a inked stamp leaves a viewable impression. The reference in the bible is being marked as someone's property, be it God or the anti-Christ. In those days a mark was a brand which was imbedded in the skin to signify who owned the cattle or sheep. It is said that we are sealed inside our head, that is to say that we make our choice, which side we choose and our choice is found to be seen by all if we are to buy and sell.

Still, this is the first time I have read a hypothesis like yours and I will continue thinking about it. Peace.

Okay just for anyone listening, none of these things in the Revelation are meant to be understood literally but spiritually. The mark is a spiritual mark- a simple confession acknowledging the false prophet as the "god that brought us out of spiritual bondage"

The "buying and selling" isn't meaning a literally economy, but a spiritual economy:

2Pe 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

The false "gods" to come (10th day of 10th month is when they arrive- the king of confusion and all his host) are going to be making "merchandise" out of humanity with their lies/feigned words- causing people to believe that which is "abomination": this is why Jesus did this:

Mt 21:12 And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves, 13 And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.

Now look:

Joh 10:8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.

See how Jesus is correlating His words? He's calling the "false prophets" that came before Him "thieves"

Now, note that Jesus is cleansing the temple of them that buy and sell: and is the temple is a physical picture of what?

1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

Isa 52:3 For thus saith the LORD, Ye have sold yourselves for nought; and ye shall be redeemed without money.

Pr 23:23 Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding.

This is what this "buying and selling" is meaning- the Lord couldn't care less about phyiscal money- but it's the spiritual buying and selling that He is wanting to get you to understand.

reply to post by MrCobb


Dear MrCobb,

A simple question from a simple man. Would you accept an invisible tattoo on your hand or forehead if it meant that you could use currency. You are convinced that the mark is something else; but, what if you are wrong. Would you accept a mark, invisible to the eye or not, that was required to buy and sell?

Originally posted by seethetruth
reply to post by UncoveringPatmo

 

The pope has a name Vicarius Filii Dei and that name equals 666 , The mark of of the beast or the seal of god is in your forehead and in your hand its your beliefs and ways ,

The part in the bible were it says you will not be able to buy or sell without the mark of the beast could be not keeping the sabbath day ,keeping the sabbath is in the ten commandments , it was the catholic church that changed the sabbath from Saturday to Sunday.

if you are lucky enough to be in a job and working and you told your boss you will not work on Saturday because it is the sabbath you would more often then not lose your job so then you can not buy or sell ,
This of coarse is just another theory on the mark of the beast but it does fit and it is all in the bible

It's not just a theory, brother. It's Biblical truth. Sunday is the mark of the beast. Choosing to obey man's law instead of God's law. If anyone is interested, here is a video which explains it perfectly:

www.john1429.org...

reply to post by jeramie


Dear jeramie,

I missed it, there is a day on which we are not supposed to worship the Lord? I thought we should love him everyday.

Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by MrCobb

 

Dear MrCobb,

A simple question from a simple man. Would you accept an invisible tattoo on your hand or forehead if it meant that you could use currency. You are convinced that the mark is something else; but, what if you are wrong. Would you accept a mark, invisible to the eye or not, that was required to buy and sell?

Indeed I would, without so much as blinking an eye. I'd also say, "Hey feel free to tatoo 666 all over my body if you want" and I'd laugh. This is because I know for fact that the Lord couldn't care less about the physical things- the only thing He cares about it the state of your mind and spirit in relationship to Him; the state of your heart.

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Ps 26:2 Examine me, O LORD, and prove me; try my reins and my heart.
Ps 139:23 Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts:
Jer 17:10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins
Rev 2:23 And all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts

Earthly trappings are completely meaningless in the eyes of God. Not only this, but I have read the scripture, and I understand it; and I know the "hand/forehead" mark is the Passover mark. Now, I know that in the OT there's a lot of talk about physical things, lots of boxes and temples, physical sacrifices, and whatnot- but these things are only pictures- shadows- of the REAL thing that God is showing us through these pictures; and the visible things are just analogues designed to help us understand the invisible things:

Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things

Just like the earthly exodus from earthly Egypt by the earthly deliverer, Moses, itself was just a shadow of the spiritual exodus from spiritual Egypt by the spiritual Deliverer, Jesus. This is also how I know for fact that the person going on about Sunday worship is completely wrong; the "carnal" sabbath (the 7th day rest) was itself just a shadow of the spiritual sabbath we find in the grace of Christ- in that we "cease from our works", the works of the law: in trying to "make ourself right" before God by our own works. There is no such a thing as a "proper day" of worship- one should be "worshipping" every day of the week in spirit and truth- not in some archaic weekly rituals on a certain carnal day.

There is not so much as a peep in scripture to correlate a "mark" and "hand/forehead" with the 7th day sabbath, and I guarentee you if you follow his link there you will hear a bunch of nonsense not in the scripture trying to "identify" or "explain" how you can get from a hand/forehead mark to "carnally rest on a carnal day"; but if you look at the scripture you will find a forehead/hand mark specifically correlated with the Passover token confession of who "brought us out of bondage".

All of this talk about carnal things is completely ridiculous; God only cares about the state of your heart in relationship to TRUTH.

Also, to finish off this nonsense, to jeramie: how do you know when the 7th day actually is? Just because we call Saturday the "7th day/last day of the week" this in no way means it has always been such. For all you know, somewhere centuries ago, the Israelite "7th day, last day of the week" became our "5th day of the week" and we started counting these things differently. That is to say, it could easily be that "Saturday" is really the "5th day of the week" and we just call it the "last day of the week" because it is the last day of our newly counted week.

Now, I'm not saying this is the case, but it easily could be, and the point is that there is no possible way for you to be certain which day really is the "7th day" of the Israelite "carnal" sabbath. So would God base your salvation on "carnally resting on a day which you have no possible way of actually determining"? God doesn't care about earthly carnal things. At all.

Originally posted by UncoveringPatmo
I would like to start this discussion by expressing that in no way, shape or form do I intend to spread fear or negativity by engaging the matter at hand. My presentation represents how I have come to believe the fabled "Mark of the Beast" with regards to its meaning and existence in this world.

The passage I will base my presentation around comes from Revelation:

"This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666."

While there are many variations/translations of this passage, this one suffices. First, to unravel the mystery, the author suggests wisdom and insight. On my own, I don't have much of that, but I've been given some fantastic Help along the way.

1. 6 represented man in ancient times.

2. Greek philosophy heavily influenced the mind's of biblical authors. The author of this passage would have been familiar with the traditional Greek distinction of the 3 dimensions of human existence: physical, emotional/mental and spiritual/intellectual. The three 6's correspond and represent man's absolute control over the three dimensions of human experience.

3. It is MAN's number that is the symbol of this dominion. And this number isn't anything specific, it can be any number. Cell phones, social security numbers, license plates, barcodes and the list goes on ad infinitum. Its elegance reflects not only its simplicity, but also subtle, subversive intelligence, a hallmark of those powers seeking to bind us in ignorance. Everything has a number these days, from the food on your table to the books on subjects spiritual.

So the mark isn't something concrete, like an RFID chip, though technology like this certainly constitutes the next generation of control. It is already in play. Those here gifted with spiritual sight may have seen it too, the three black bars on foreheads. I know I have.

Should anyone be interested in suggestions for avoiding permanent marking, my inbox is always open.

May the Spirit Be With You,
Anonymous

edit on 13-11-2012 by UncoveringPatmo because: Spelling

You appear to come across as if the writer of that section of revelations was just being a creative writer. Like he wasn't inspired and was shown specifically what to write. In which case if that's true then why would you care one bit about the mark of the beast? Wouldn't that just be someone's creative imagination at work?

but if you believe the bible is the word of God then that would mean it wouldn't be writen based on influence of the time. It would be some kind of spiritual sacrid writings given to man by God trying to tell us something about the future, and likely not at all to do with there current times.

As for what it is??? Well I'd say it's the RFID chips. I don't think we'll see forced RFID chips in our lifetime though.

here's a scenario that might happen though....

Seems like more and more people are ending up on G==v subsidies and food stamps. Lets say this trend continued world wide. Like more and more people had to rely on g==v for there food. Lets say this was by design.

Then lets say they introduce the mark. Well if you don't get it then you don't eat as you've been relying on TPTB all the while. So that would force most people to go and take it because they'd be too afriad of losing there food source. So a huge amount of people would convert over to such as system almost by force. I think that's why they're tryign to get more and more people unemployed and relying on the welfare state. That way it's so much easier to control them later on.

But as for the bible it says that if you take the mark then you can't get to heaven later on.

Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by seethetruth

 

Dear seethetruth,

if you are lucky enough to be in a job and working and you told your boss you will not work on Saturday because it is the sabbath you would more often then not lose your job so then you can not buy or sell ,

It says nobody would be allowed to buy or sell. Wouldn't people on pensions and social securty be able to go to church on Saturday and still buy and sell? It is not for being fired because you will not work on Saturdays. A mark is a mark, something that others can see, just like Cain was marked so that people would not harm him.

like i said its all just theory nobody knows and nobody will know till it happens if it happens , i personally don't believe there is a god at all and certainly not a loving and merciful god

Haven't finished reading all subsequent posts to the one in this reply, as I am researching as I go. However, I found this applicable and worth noting:

The Hebrew word Tevet means: The tenth attribute that enables a human being to be able to exchange or trade the gifts or talents of his natural strength into the spiritual realm that designs the purpose of his life.

The physical act of Giving ones tithe to God, being generous, sharing, the buying and selling or trading of things which promotes God's reality in the earth,

is also part of the spiritual energies which are released by God during the the tenth month called "Tevet" on God's Hebrew calendar.

But on the other hand "Tevet" is also the season when the negative energies of selfishness, evil eye, love of money, evil trading, slavery, the buying and selling of idols becomes evident in this season.

The origin of evil trade:

The tenth month on the Hebrew calendar is the season when the forces of evil which opposes God's authority in the earth begins to warfare and to contend against God's chosen ones.

Nimrod, the founder of the Babylonian system of trading (selling, making & buying of idols) established a law of opposing God through trading, where his stock market sold items of sorcery, witchcraft and magic.

God's Holy Seasons

You have definitely piqued my interest with this angle. Especially in consideration of the fact that, as of late, I have specifically asked for genuine understanding on such matters. However as with anything worth knowing and understanding, discernment must be sought in earnest to rightly divide a Word of Truth from it. For my endeavor to truly be in earnest, it must also be with the humility to submit my desire to His timing and the altogether possibility that He simply may say 'No'.

Thus as of yet, I cannot in good conscience stand with you to bear witness to any truth in it. But your foundation seems solid, indeed.

reply to post by AQuestion


Triple Helix DNA made stable by using RNA for third strand.
It would, theoretically, be self-repairing and no longer bearing the "image" in which it was orignally created.

Some liberal stretches are made here, but this page is informative and worth the read nonetheless.
DNA- Mark of Beast

I will write more later.........................

The Lamp of the Body

33 “No one, when he has lit a lamp, puts it in a secret place or under a basket, but on a lampstand, that those who come in may see the light. 34 The lamp of the body is the eye. Therefore, when your eye is good, your whole body also is full of light. But when your eye is bad, your body also is full of darkness. 35 Therefore take heed that the light which is in you is not darkness. 36 If then your whole body is full of light, having no part dark, the whole body will be full of light, as when the bright shining of a lamp gives you light.”

Originally posted by Angle
I don't give a crap about the bible anymore, it's realy time we need to figure out the Qu'ran.

Well the Quran says it's okay to beat your wife, and that you'll have 49 virgins brides when you die as a martyr for al-cia-duhhh.

That's not what I said!

Originally posted by Angle
That's not what I said!

It was before you edited it.

reply to post by UncoveringPatmo

Very, very good thread. Very engaging.

Question for the OP - When you say three black stripes on the forehead, what are you talking about? I don't understand this.

Stupid girl, what are you doing here?

Originally posted by r2d246

Originally posted by Angle
I don't give a crap about the bible anymore, it's realy time we need to figure out the Qu'ran.

Well the Quran says it's okay to beat your wife, and that you'll have 49 virgins brides when you die as a martyr for al-cia-duhhh.

sa-WEET!!

oh, and uh, Aloha Snackbar and Bumblebee Tuna and all that jazz.

Originally posted by Angle
Stupid girl, what are you doing here?

Here, as in, on this thread?

Or here just as in general?