Do States Actually Have The Right To Secede? - Ben Swann -

This site:

www.confederate150.com...

gives some very good info on secession, in terms of the South.

reply to post by Circumstance
Regardless, my point stands. Texas is on a much better economic footing than most independent nations in the world, and ranks pretty highly in some global comparisons. I find their collapse in the even of secession unlikely barring various other outside influence.

Man, it seems that these discussions reflect just how far from reality people have gotten. Secession is spoken of as if you could just sign a petition, leave the union, and then wake up the next day and everything be normal. First of all, many services in the states are paid for by the Federal Government, including the nuclear facilities. The Feds provide much of the infrastructure in the states. So what happens if a state succeeds? Do half the people up and leave? You have a bloody mess like when Pakistan was created out of India? Business (especially national business who have headquarters in the union) leave because of the uncertainty. What about retired people on federal pensions? Do those get dropped? Also, part of the problem in Congress. Who makes up congress? Your state officials.... LOL...... Man. So does the state then need to print new money? What about goods that it recieves from other states that it does not produce itself. Wow....

Imagine that...

The first time states tried to secede, there were slaves they wanted to keep in slavery due to their racial prejudices.

Now, we have states again wanting to secede, and we have a black POTUS.

I guess racisim and hatred just never die....

Regardless of what they may say, we know the REAL reason they're doing this and it's the same reason it was last time.

reply to post by Cuervo


These people are pitiful. They are so delusional and lost they don't even know the source of the countries problems. They listen to propaganda and think they're enlightened. They think that Obama is some kind of evil black man with a plot to destroy everything. Wake up. He already has been president for 4 years. Improved the country in spite of Republican obstructionism. He's not a socialist. He's an old style middle of the road Republican.

they do not and in other threads just like this one we can not over throw either........were stuck

What about a nice alliance between Texas and Mexico? Texaco.

reply to post by Cuervo


In the State I currently reside the following is written in the State Constitution:

Sec. 4. Secession prohibited. This State shall ever remain a member of the American Union; the people thereof are part of the American nation; there is no right on the part of this State to secede; and all attempts, from whatever source or upon whatever pretext, to dissolve this Union or to sever this Nation, shall be resisted with the whole power of the State.

www.ncleg.net...

Ben is right that all powers not delegated to the Federal government are reserved to the states and people thereof. In the case of North Carolina, the people have added to their Constitution through their elected representatives that anyone who dares to attempt secession shall be resisted. The particular interesting portion of this provision is that those who attempt to "sever this Nation, shall be resisted with the whole power of the State." This might include any attempt to sever the Nation, including attempts of other States to seceed from the Union. Based on Ben's analysis this makes sense as South Carolina did do this and North Carolina did not and went to war.

reply to post by ExPostFacto


All that has to be done is to change the constitution and strike that provision it was coerced anyway. It was done of course after the civil war. NC's original constitution had not such provision.

Reply to post by Circumstance

Texas is ranked just behind India, Canada, and Russia, and ahead of Australia and Mexico.


If they can make it, Texas can.

As for federal money, your claim is false. Texas currently receives 91 cents for every dollar.

California gets 1.09 for every dollar. Meanwhile, Texas budget is in the black, and still has emergency reserves, and California is bankrupt.




Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

All one needs to do is read the U.S. Declaration of Independence. That will tell you the right to succeed. It is there in black and white, over 200 years old. States were founded upon the signing of the document.

No. They do not.

reply to post by missed_gear


Uh huh. Try it and get back to me on how that worked out.

I say goodbye and good ridance and "DON'T LET THE DOOR HIT YOU IN THE ASS ON THE WAY OUT".

Just imagine If Louisiana succeeds and gains complete control of all shipping going down the Mississippi into the Gulf.
There is no way the US government would stand for that. Succession would surely end in war.
It's not going to happen in my lifetime. IMHO

Originally posted by PurpleChiten
Imagine that...

The first time states tried to secede, there were slaves they wanted to keep in slavery due to their racial prejudices.

Now, we have states again wanting to secede, and we have a black POTUS.

I guess racisim and hatred just never die....

Regardless of what they may say, we know the REAL reason they're doing this and it's the same reason it was last time.

Your post angered me so much, I had to create an ATS account. This bile you're spewing is just a way to shutdown other's argument, without substance. You do not read what people say as to the reasons for their issues with the Federal Government - you simply jump to racism as the immediate answer. A simple understanding of history would illustrate that secession has been batted around since the War of 1812 - and in that case, it was by the New England states no less.

I bet you patted yourself on the back for voting for a black man. Ever heard of projection? See? It can go both ways. How about keep race out of issues until it is brought up and keep debates intellectually honest. kthnx

Originally posted by Circumstance

Originally posted by Praetorius

Originally posted by jacksmoke

Texas might have the financial capacity to support itself, but not at its current level. The only state that could is California and they arent gonna leave

With Texas having an economy surpassing most of the nations in the world, I'll have to disagree with you on this.

That's just silly.

Wrong you are. California has the world's eight largest economy and Texas is ranked fourteenth. Plus Texas gets way more money from the federal government than it actually pays out. States like California, NY, etc (you know those blue states) pay more out than they get back; so technically their monies go to support Texas and lots of those red states. States like Texas sure like other people's money.

edit on 14-11-2012 by Circumstance because: (no reason given)

I knew, when I saw this earlier, that it would come in handy. It's even a lefty source. (Mother Jones) Texas receives less than $1 for every tax dollar.

www.motherjones.com...

Originally posted by Godrric

Originally posted by PurpleChiten
Imagine that...

The first time states tried to secede, there were slaves they wanted to keep in slavery due to their racial prejudices.

Now, we have states again wanting to secede, and we have a black POTUS.

I guess racisim and hatred just never die....

Regardless of what they may say, we know the REAL reason they're doing this and it's the same reason it was last time.

Your post angered me so much, I had to create an ATS account. This bile you're spewing is just a way to shutdown other's argument, without substance. You do not read what people say as to the reasons for their issues with the Federal Government - you simply jump to racism as the immediate answer. A simple understanding of history would illustrate that secession has been batted around since the War of 1812 - and in that case, it was by the New England states no less.

I bet you patted yourself on the back for voting for a black man. Ever heard of projection? See? It can go both ways. How about keep race out of issues until it is brought up and keep debates intellectually honest. kthnx

Well bless your lil heart.

I could say the same to you. What you posted is your opinion, what I posted is my opinion. I happen to live in one of the states in question and I know exactly what the reason is. There are a lot of closed minded, bigoted people who are upset that there's a black man in the oval office.

You can deny it until the cows come home, but it's blatantly apparent here. I did vote for Obama this time, but I didn't vote for him last time when the only reason anyone WAS voting for him was because he was black. He angered me over the way he treated Hillary, who should have been the rightful POTUS. However, now he IS the POTUS, whether you agree or don't agree.

Much has changed since the original incidents of states seceding. In the first go around, many did it for reasons not at all related to slavery, however, others did it for the soul purpose of keeping slavery, mostly the later seceding ones. For them, it was based on bigotry then and 99% of the ones doing it now are based in bigotry.

If the country was in the exact same position or worse (worse like it was under dubya), they wouldn't be screaming to secede. They are doing this because there is a democratic president who happens to be black. They are racist bigots who didn't get their way so now they want to take their ball and go home.

It is childish and ignorant. They need to grow up, put on their big boy pants and uphold their responsibilites as a nation instead of crying and whining. If we can live through 8 years of bush/cheney, we can live through anything. The economy has been improving since bush tanked it. Unemployment is going down since bush tanked it. Things are finally coming back together. It took bush and the republicans 8 years to make the mess, it's going to take 8 years to clean it up.

If they want to secede, fine, but in less than 6 months, they'll be whining and crying to come back because they can't handle it on their own. It's a different world now than it was in 1861. We are no longer a conglomeration of states that make up a nation. We are a nation that consists of several states. There's a big difference whether small minds can realize it or not.

If Texas wants to be added to the list of third world countries, it's well on its way. Perhaps with them out of the way, the republican party won't be able to block any and all legislation to help rebuild the nation.

Would you like to keep the platter that has been handed to you or do you plan to return it?

Originally posted by burdman30ott6

Originally posted by NeoVain
reply to post by Cuervo

 

Of course they have the right, the rights lie with the people on matters such as this. Anything else would be tyranny.

...which, by the admission of the above fact, would make Abraham Lincoln a tyrant.

I'm routinely amused at the concept that anyone in the USA possesses any "right" which does not immediately and aptly benefit the nation's leadership, investment class, or position in some charade-like squabble between the two marionettes.

Oh yes! We are a socitey that talks a mean game about rights. But if you are in a weak and dependent condition in this world watch out. If you cant defend yourself forget anyone doing the right thing by you if that anyone is someone with power over you and your effects. I am not even talking about the poor and down trodden. I am talking about the way men with ideas are taken advantage of like Tesla for example. The way a person with just cause can be deflected by a court system that eats up his ability to defend self by eating his wealth away with constant delays and filings untill he is broke before the thing can even come to trial.

reply to post by PurpleChiten


If your implication is that you've somehow 'handed it to me' you're deluding yourself. Do you not remember the militia movement in the 90s? That was racially motivated right? No - that was a response to the governments heavy handed tactics with Waco and Ruby Ridge. It was a much smaller response to perceived government encroachment.

Today, with the Patriot Act, National Defense Authorization Act, the agencies under Homeland Security, Fast and Furious, imperialistic military adventures, increasing taxes, encroachment of the Federal Government upon states rights, the complete disregard for Constitutionally mandated obligations (Congress passing a budget), the Presidents execution of a 16 year old American citizen in Yemen, handing US prisoners off to foreign countries for torture etc etc etc, people are finally becoming aware of the injustices bestowed upon them and, though it may not be serious, have posted a gesture of their disdain online.

And with all of these different reasons to mix and match and choose from, you attribute it to the most base thing - racism. I will not deny that you could find someone on that list who is racist. But I would contend that the vast majority are going to cite a more cerebral reason than your pessimistic outlook upon your fellow citizens.