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Do States Actually Have The Right To Secede? - Ben Swann -

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posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 08:22 PM
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Finally, this is being tackled by Ben Swann.



Pretty much the gist of it is this: Yes, they have the right. However, they had the right before but it didn't stop the Civil War from happening.

So what does that mean? Does that mean they can try again and we can just trust our modern civility to keep us from war? I can't imagine there possibly being a violent civil war if states left. Not in this era. Even the non-secessionists would revolt if the government attacked a secessionist state.

I think it will happen eventually and it will be peaceful.




posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 08:47 PM
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reply to post by Cuervo
 


Of course they have the right, the rights lie with the people on matters such as this. Anything else would be tyranny.



I think it will happen eventually and it will be peaceful.


Well considering what happened the last time this happened, it is clear there are certain "special interests" that will be warmongering to stop it, even if they have the right. So the peacefulness of such a secession is not guaranteed, as these special interests probably exist today as well. Like the lost taxes from that state can no longer be put towards the black budget, just as an example..



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 08:55 PM
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reply to post by Cuervo
 
You could hope it would be peaceful, but I don't see that happening any better than the Civil War did - the North had no justification to invade the South, under our Constitution - however distasteful they *may* have found certain things.

All too many assumptions are made regarding the goodness and necessity of Lincoln's decisions...and I don't see our leaders having grown any wiser. The next civil war could very well be much more costly than 600k US lives on EITHER side.



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 08:56 PM
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Originally posted by NeoVain
Well considering what happened the last time this happened, it is clear there are certain "special interests" that will be warmongering to stop it, even if they have the right. So the peacefulness of such a secession is not guaranteed, as these special interests probably exist today as well. Like the lost taxes from that state can no longer be put towards the black budget, just as an example..


We live in a time where virtually ever American citizen has direct and instant communication with every other American. Even if they tried to stop the communication, they can't. Not completely. There would be no way for the US to take military action without expecting a full revolt from the people.

I think the events like Ruby Ridge and Waco were the last of their kind in terms of the people just accepting it. For one, I don't think the government is that evil and, two, I think the government is too smart to try. 30 years ago maybe but not today.
edit on 13-11-2012 by Cuervo because: grammar...



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 09:10 PM
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I think if they tried it, in less than 6 months they would be eating crow and begging to come back...



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 09:10 PM
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Originally posted by NeoVain
reply to post by Cuervo
 


Of course they have the right, the rights lie with the people on matters such as this. Anything else would be tyranny.


...which, by the admission of the above fact, would make Abraham Lincoln a tyrant.

I'm routinely amused at the concept that anyone in the USA possesses any "right" which does not immediately and aptly benefit the nation's leadership, investment class, or position in some charade-like squabble between the two marionettes.



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 09:12 PM
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It would look like this if they could...





posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 09:17 PM
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reply to post by baddmove
 


They're all hat and no cattle


They just talk big but when it comes to actually DOING something, they high-tail and run. That's just the way they are



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 09:32 PM
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reply to post by burdman30ott6
 


Lincoln was absolutely a tyrant. Civil war wasn't fought over slavery. That was just the feelgood excuse used to rally for the cause. Propaganda is an important aspect of winning a war.



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 09:34 PM
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ok..how's this then..




posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 09:35 PM
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Originally posted by PurpleChiten
I think if they tried it, in less than 6 months they would be eating crow and begging to come back...


And why do you think that? Why would they want to come back to 75 trillion in debt and unfunded liabilities? Illegal wars where they send their children off to die for special interests? The drug war? The federal reserve dictating what they can use for money? Government take over of industries and travel etc. etc. etc...

it would be the smartest thing several states could do. Having said all that I doubt it will happen there is too much ignorance concerning it...



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 09:36 PM
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reply to post by burdman30ott6
 

...which, by the admission of the above fact, would make Abraham Lincoln a tyrant.

Hey, look, someone who gets it! Imprisoning the unfriendly media, only 'freeing' slaves in opposing states, and invading said states for not wanting to pay you (sorry, I should say 'being slaver-y'?) does NOT make you an exemplar of American ideals...


I'm routinely amused at the concept that anyone in the USA possesses any "right" which does not immediately and aptly benefit the nation's leadership, investment class, or position in some charade-like squabble between the two marionettes.

I'll disagree with you on this one - just because the government tramples and routinely ignores God-given rights does not mean they are invalid, nor make them apply as you indicate - the government merely disabuses people of the validity of said rights and assumes more power and authority well above and beyond them to claim the benefits you mention.

Our rights as properly defined state that we should do as we will as long as we don't intrude upon the rights of others to do the same. Government's failure to recognize such, or greed in not allowing it, does not negate this truth.



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 09:37 PM
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Texas might have the financial capacity to support itself, but not at its current level. The only state that could is California and they arent gonna leave
edit on 13-11-2012 by jacksmoke because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 09:42 PM
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Originally posted by jacksmoke

Texas might have the financial capacity to support itself, but not at its current level. The only state that could is California and they arent gonna leave

With Texas having an economy surpassing most of the nations in the world, I'll have to disagree with you on this.

That's just silly.



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 09:46 PM
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reply to post by jacksmoke
 


California? Ummmmm. Aren't they in massive debt?



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 10:27 PM
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I dont know the implications of all this,,,,I just wish we would have elected Colorado or Washington state for president..



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 10:35 PM
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Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by jacksmoke
 


California? Ummmmm. Aren't they in massive debt?


Yes we are. Cities in CA all over the place are declaring bankruptcy.
However, If everyone here gave half of what they give in fed taxes to the state govt instead, the state would be probably running a surplus.
Meanwhile, I hear nothing about Cali seceding.
At least not until the "big one" happens and we become an island.



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 10:37 PM
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For the states that want to secede maybe a more peaceful way would be to just evolve and pull themselves up into the 21st century.



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 11:47 PM
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reply to post by Cuervo
 


Texas is a nuclear power and as such will never be allowed to secede! Pipe dream pure and simple!



posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 12:08 AM
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I think if they were allowed to leave, that they would eventually come back due to the leaders trying to turn their new nation into a theocracy where minorities and gays would be persecuted.

Eventually the US would have to go to war with them and we would be right back where we started.





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