Are Any Of Us Right Anymore???

Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

and the only time one needs to worry is when one finds themselves doing both at once

~Heff

No no, ONLY when you find yourself at last doing both at once (crying and laughing) does all worry cease because in those tears resides the very hand of wisdom that wipes the tears away from our eyes with a twinkling smile, and then some more uproarious and tear-free laughter, deep belly laughter like Santa HO! HO! HO!

It's the humor of true and authentic understanding, but to get to it you have to lose your mind you have to let it go and have the audacity to appear in the eyes of other more "normal" people, stark raving mad.

We must go insane to go into sanity.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan


After reading this, I'm confused here, and torn, but only because I do not know whether to either laugh, or to cry..?!

What do you recommend?

/

?

I recommend it scaring the # out of you because ignoring religious fundamentalists and letting them do their own thing in private isn't an option anymore - they will be coming after you, willing to die for their beliefs.

I can't wait until you report back from your hospital visit to this particular family member, may he make a speedy recovery! The poor dear! Oh no!

Originally posted by darkbake

Originally posted by NewAgeMan


After reading this, I'm confused here, and torn, but only because I do not know whether to either laugh, or to cry..?!

What do you recommend?

/

?

I recommend it scaring the # out of you because ignoring religious fundamentalists and letting them do their own thing in private isn't an option anymore - they will be coming after you, willing to die for their beliefs.

Not when they encounter my smiling, sympathetic face and see the love of God in Christ reflecting back to them, then they'll drop whatever weapon they may have been charging with, stop, and go - "Duh! [facepalm] OMG what was I THINKING?!"

Don't underestimate the power of the truth to break through if managed wisely and with loving compassionate awareness.

What's needed here isn't kill-or-be-killed, but a grand exorcism of individual, national and global proportion, and it's coming and for some has already arrived.

It's a "double-bind" don't you see, and when it unravells in the mind of even the most stupid and ignorant person, there's new possibility there including the possibility for humor.. however grave it may be or seem, at first.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


I agree with you, thank you. That is what I hope happens. I'm afraid I might not have the ability to be a beacon of light when there is so much darkness pulling me down. I guess this is where the test comes, right? Am I able to do what is right, even when facing insurmountable odds?

And, in the unfolding drama and life story of his family member, we have this:

..."and then, in November of 2012, I attempted (but, fortunately, failed) to committ suicide when Mitt Romney lost and Barack Obama won a second term in office as President of the United States. It was a real turning point for me."

There are only two ways to handle this, one leads to chronic depression and the failure of an otherwise valuable human life, the other, into the humor of real and lasting understanding even dare I say it a newfound happiness, regardless of who's POTUS.

I'll place my bets with reason over ignorance any day, but for many and even for the nation it can and will be painful whereby "that which hurts, instructs" (Benjamin Franklin).



Why can't we all not only get along, but retain our rational faculties and get to enjoy a hilarious joke at our own expense where appropriate?

It's the one thing no one can take away from you once you "grok" it, because once the mind and heart changes shape it can never go back to its original configuration and as to the right wing conservative fundamentalists, we must pray for them who would persecute us for the sake of what is right and true and just. That Jesus let me tell you he must have been a very very funny man - LOVE your enemy! HA! That's a good one, and challenging too and in the final analysis, the only reasonable thing that is even worth doing to begin with!

Oh no, here comes the crying laughter again, AH!

Originally posted by darkbake
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

I agree with you, thank you. That is what I hope happens. I'm afraid I might not have the ability to be a beacon of light when there is so much darkness pulling me down. I guess this is where the test comes, right? Am I able to do what is right, even when facing insurmountable odds?

You're welcome, but I have one question - is anyone attacking you right now? Is a mob of right wing, Christian conservative fundamentalist extremists forming in opposition at this very moment?

The universe of Bill O'Reilly imploded, it's not that big of a deal because the real reality just keeps on keeping on may we ALL catch up to it at some point..

Take heart these are human problems and every human problem contains imbedded within itself, somewhere down the line its very solution and resolution. Let the double-bind fly through the noosphere and find it's mark until it unravels in the humor of true understanding.

Best Regards,

NAM
November 13th, 2012

There has been a substantial amount of good feedback in this thread, and I don't believe I have much more I can add. But I still want to throw my 2 cents in, since I respect Heff and I don't like to see a good guy hurting.

People have been pretty polarized. Thankfully the elections are over now. But one thing in common about everyone who is either really happy about the results, or rather unhappy with the results, is they care.

They care about the country. They care about their neighbors. They care about our joined future. If you are apathetic about citizenship, you perhaps don't care very much. But if you cared enough to get polarized in one direction or the other, it is with good intentions.

People have disagreements on the best way to fix our problems. Both sides believe they have evidence why their solutions are better. I personally would be more upset if people didn't care. Of course radicalism is never a good thing, and I believe most mentally healthy people will not actually cross over that line.

There are a lot of people that hate Americans in this world, bloodthirsty to see our arrogance burned away in the flames of our own self-induced destruction. They are not going to see their fantasy played out so easily I'm afraid. Eventually those responsible for divisive and/or hateful rhetoric will be marginalized. The civility and goodness in the hearts of people will not enjoy partisan entertainment/propaganda for long as the consequences become evident.

The good guys will win in the end. There are more of us after all.

Stay strong Heff.

Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by Hefficide

 

Dear Hefficide,

Truthfully, I have seen the nation more divided. During the 60s it was pretty unpleasant at times. The difference is the ignorance and sensationalism. While the mainstream media sought to be dispassionate and moderate, today it seeks only to inflame and makes appeals to emotionalism. I offer a poem and some encouragement. I will begin with the encouragement.

We are seeing a world in transition, technology is providing opportunities for both good and bad. The vast majority of people are not involved in determining how the world will change and it frustrates them, they fear the unknown and jump to emotional conclusions. Fear mongers push people to overreact to everything and politics is now nothing more than the theater of the absurd.

A lot of people like to talk about they are "awakened". In fact, they are merely exposed to things that are far from new because the internet provides them with information is simple forms. A ten minute video by someone like Alex Jones does not make someone informed or awake. This shall pass, it has before, it his the birth of a new paradigm and birth is always painful and scary.

I am sorry that you are feeling challenged and for the disruption in your family life. I have always found you to be rather reasonable in your words and not prone to extremes; but, fear drives the masses to extremism and absolutism and there is much uncertainty. Peace.

William Butler Yeats (1865-1939)

THE SECOND COMING

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: a waste of desert sand;
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Wind shadows of the indignant desert birds.

The darkness drops again but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

What he said.

And that poem, it's really funny, in a grave sort of way.

The jokes on us, but many if not most of us just simply didn't get it.

Originally posted by apushforenlightment
I think I will answer the post with this video. It seem fitting;

Yeah the guy was a little wierd looking but that only added to the humor, his vanity while being authentically inauthentic (I thought it was amuzing, and applicable anyway for whatever its worth).

But you can't NOT get it, when all is said and done and it's most certainly a joke if a joke's to be had that we're better off to thoroughly enjoy while we're still on the way or we might, God forbid NOT get it, ever, and that's scary. Good thing it's a non ceorcive invitational joke with love and mercy, and yet, as one whose severe Justice also prevails, RESTORES us, to our true and authentic humor, charm, laughter and love of the everlasting variety; and at last come to know a lasting peace, and a joy (happiness), of the kind that comes only from above and from the innermost sactum of the human heart.

It's both exceedingly sweet and kind on the one hand, yet utterly undominable on the other, inviolate, something we could only break ourselves against in our own stupidity and absurdity, thus being corrected, by it and by it's humor, in hindsight, looking back.

The Eschaton is here, now, there's no denying it anymore because it's nothing less than the rock of absolute reasonableness and righteousness IN OUR FACE!

Two reactions - we can either run and hide, or embrace it.

We're the crippled (degenerates?) slouching towards Bethlehem, but there's a place already set at the table, prepared for us from the time before time. No worries.

If there's one thing I've learned through my own journey in trying to face it all, is this.

God is real, and he's very very funny, almost (but not quite) wickedly funny, even to the nth degree and then some.

We gotta get real and turn and take a good hard look at ourselves and laugh at the utter absurdity of who we once took ourselves to be, not because it was over inflated (however much it may have been in one sense) but because it didn't even begin to measure or take acount of our true stature as children of God.


We didn't get the joke - can you IMAGINE how terrible that would be?!

I don't want to even GO there!


That's kind of funny - afraid not to laugh.. for fear of losing one's sense of humor.

Originally posted by nixie_nox
It is the time of year babe. For some reason fall brings on full mental illness, whether it be plain ol depression or full psychosis.

I guess I'm a weirdo as I love all the seasons, but especially fall. I do love winter, until March, the it is time for the change again.

Maybe I'm not affected by SAD, I don't know.

But I do see people affected by the current political madness that is going on. People can be set in their beliefs. That is what irritates me. People are not really listening to each other.

We can agree to disagree and still get along, but maybe if the subject matter is to argumentative, then it would be best to let time dilute it, let it play out, and then re-address it later when more is known.

Though I do understand you have plenty of responses to sift through I just wanted to interject to say: Thank you.

I thank you because you always seemed rather invincible Heff, when it came to your beliefs. It seems like you always have the right answer and are never hesitant with your statements. It almost gave the impression that you are "above" most others and that you are a part of the more civil and correct "side" of ATS.

However, to read that and know that you too have weaknesses, sorrows, and overall difficulty with all of this, and that gives me a sense of relief. Relief to know that we are all capable of mistakes and that in the end it will always be a challenge to find the right path and to make the right choices. To open up like this when you are normally so confident is a sign of your humanity and that you do honestly care if you, and all of us, are going in the direction that we need to go. Not to mention you word it so well, and with such artful honesty. After reading that I gain another piece of confidence that mankind can and will achieve great things. We are powerful and amazing creatures capable of doing way more than any of us could imagine. I always stop and think that when it comes to humanity: We are much greater than the sum of our parts. We all are close to answer, I can feel it, and you fortify that feeling.

So once again, thank you for your honesty, sincerity, and humanity. I see now that you are a good and true member of ATS, and you are part of what makes this place what I believe, to be the greatest resource for expanding our minds in history. So I guess I will see you around.

reply to post by LiveForever8


Wow, that is a very artful rendition of the cyclic journey of a civilization. I feel the reality of it and it triggers a powerful emotional response in me. I do wonder where it is from though? Do you have a source?

reply to post by Renegade2283


Between the years 1833 to 1836 Thomas Cole, an English-born American artist, created a five-part series of paintings entitled The Course of Empire - 'notable in part for reflecting popular American sentiments of the times, when many saw pastoralism as the ideal phase of human civilization, fearing that empire would lead to gluttony and inevitable decay.'

The series of paintings depicts the growth and fall of an imaginary city, situated on the lower end of a river valley, near its meeting with a bay of the sea. The valley is distinctly identifiable in each of the paintings, in part because of an unusual landmark: a large boulder is precariously situated atop a crag overlooking the valley.

Too long to hold interest sorry

Throwing a few cents in here, I'm sure I'll get bashed, possibly banhammered. But here goes....

First off, sorry to hear about your familial problems, OP. You didn't start the polarization, they didn't either, hopefully a bridge gets built somewhere somehow. And hopefully he finds a way to start living a life that isn't defined by political beliefs whether you and he ever reconcile or not. At least be certain of yourself, you are blameless 100%. And I wish you and yours all the best going forward in total sincerity.

Here's where I get banned 8>D The polarization that is in fact getting nastier and nastier is not new. One only need look back through ATS' own threads of the Bush years, neither right nor left is blameless. I myself am very conservative, I am an economist in addition to a degree in Poli Sci and Heff, if you ever need something better than Cliff's Notes on the Fed I can help you there-I assure you-and in terms that you make up your own mind not pre-supplied positions by me. Back to the polarization though, Heff the OP, nixie_nox and darkbake have all essentially implicity and explicitly opined in this very thread that since I am a conservative I am therefore insensitive towards others, uncaring of the poor, *insertm nasty streotypes of "The Right" here*. For the last 8 years, I have done on average about 200 hours of work for 2 charities I care deeply about, both of which I came into contact with via my sister's church. One aids/assists women seeking help to escape abusive situations (mostly marriages but not all) and another for orphaned children. In addition, though I am either on the upper end of low class or very low end of middle class economically speaking, I have managed to usually make it to 4 digits in donating dollars to those charities as well. Probably won't make it to those numbers quite this year but I digress.

This isn't something I bring up at work, or in the fantasy football boards, I bring it up now because all 3 of you have branded me as uncaring of the disadvantaged -since I am a consevative- without knowing a thing about me. I could point out that statistically speaking, it's highly doubtful any of you 3 do as much for disadvantaged people as I do voluntarily-at least statistically speaking. And I will continue to do so because the reward I get from that can't be valued in any terms of price. I may a jerk, I may be self-centered in many ways but seeing the joy that I had a little help in adding to the world, even just a little and just once in a while- it's a feeling you can't get with drugs (and I have tried most of the recreational ones-sometimes quite a bit LOL) But since I fall under the label of conservative, you must care a lot more about people in hard circumstances than I do. This simply is not true. I care as much as anyone else I know, and more than many regardless of political label. My political differences with the left lies in how to attain the best outcome for the most people and have a healthy vibrant society. It's a tactical difference.

Now, off with my head! 8>D

Don´t see much difference between political groups in US and soccer hooligans around the World. Both tend to be loud and willing to do anything for their team, intimidation, violence and vandalism.
Don´t see much difference between politcal groups and fundamental religious groups, both do everything to convert others to believe in same issues in the way they think is right.

I had the privilidge to be there and observe political battles between Al Gore and G.W.Bush, it was totally eye-opening how much people are involved and how deep they feel for their teams, and nowadays its even worse. Elections has become a sporting event like football, people watch political debates with same enthusiasm, have some snacks and being loud.

Its sad when political views breaks families, when has politics become such a power to do that in such a scale..

reply to post by LiveForever8


Awesome, thank you.

2nd

reply to post by HabiruThorstein


Why would you get banned for that? (Except for maybe mentioning a personal experience with illicit substances, which is a big no-no here on ATS)

I never assumed that you didn't care about others by being a conservative. I just believe that IMO a good majority of conservatives are self centered(ETA: Democrats can be self righteous to be fair). Honestly, I don't see the point in defining yourself as conservative and liberal. Do you believe in every conservative belief? Sure, if I just started speaking my mind people would classify me as a liberal or democrat, but I don't see it as so. I don't agree with stricter gun-laws and do agree with more power for the states(on non-constitutional issues), which are always viewed as conservative views.

The problem is that if you claim to be a member of either party you are always assumed to believe in every value of that party.

I want you to tell me if there are any presumed conservative beliefs that you don't personally subscribe to. Any at all, then get back to me.

reply to post by Hefficide





In reply to your question of helping the poor and needy and disadvantaged

I am posting from across the pond, so our system is a bit different from yours....but

the basics of most systems is the workers pay taxes and the government distributes

where they will which takes in the poor and needy and disadvantaged.


On the news today was a mother of a young child who had claimed benifits for the past

three years claiming her child had cancer. She put the child in a wheel chair shaved its

head and put a scarf over the childs head. It turned out the child didn't have cancer and

over the three years she got £85,000 in benifits...With this and other similar cases

investigated and taken to court on a fairly regular basis are you supprised people earning

a min wage of £12,000 annually get disgruntled?

TPTB continually seperate us into groups> We are raised thinking our school is better than yours, our town is better than yours, our state is better than yours, our country is better than yours; all with the intent to keep us sererated.If we as a whole are seperate on petty things then we would never be able to join forces and vote these creeps out of office. People don't realize how stupid they sound when they say " Iam Republican and I am right" or I am Democrat and I am right" ....When it comes down to it ......IT DOES NOT MATTER both are bought off by TPTB. Do you really think they care who gets elected? When we elect some one does policy change? The answers = NO. No matter who gets elected the agenda stays the same.
Open your eyes ....HECK I AM A BLACKMAN AND I SEE IT>