I will renounce my faith

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posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 12:46 PM
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Originally posted by godlover25
reply to post by birdyat101
 


I'm a disgraceful sinner, what can I say?

I need a Saviour,

read my signature.


I don't want to test your faith and god gave us free will to do as we please but please answer 1 question do you believe every thing that is wrote in the bible?




posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 12:50 PM
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reply to post by birdyat101
 


Do not be afraid to test my faith,

My faith is grounded on the Rock,

I have heard every anti Judeo-Christian and anti-Bible argument there is,

None of them hold any water whatsoever,

I have even held to those false proclamations myself when I was younger and much more foolish in my views of the world,

I believe every single jot and tittle, every iota of the Holy Scriptures, Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21

God bless you



posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 12:55 PM
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Originally posted by godlover25
reply to post by birdyat101
 


Do not be afraid to test my faith,

My faith is grounded on the Rock,

I have heard every anti Judeo-Christian and anti-Bible argument there is,

None of them hold any water whatsoever,

I have even held to those false proclamations myself when I was younger and much more foolish in my views of the world,

I believe every single jot and tittle, every iota of the Holy Scriptures, Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21

God bless you


Ok then my question to you ( I may be wrong ) but did Jesus say let he without sin cast the first stone? To me that's asking some one to kill someone that has Sin?



posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 12:59 PM
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reply to post by birdyat101
 


He said let he without sin cast the first stone,

Messiah knew nobody there was sinless and would cast no stone,

Read the whole account of what happened,

AV Jn 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

AV Jn 8:9 And they which heard [it], being convicted by [their own] conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, [even] unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

AV Jn 8:10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

AV Jn 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.



Also, read this and ask the Holy Spirit to guide you with Truth and Wisdom,

AV Mt 9:13 But go ye and learn what [that] meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.



posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 01:20 PM
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Originally posted by godlover25
I have heard every anti Judeo-Christian and anti-Bible argument there is,

None of them hold any water whatsoever,


Its easy to say that when you've grounded yourself in a dogma. Almost every devout religious person says the same thing; they claim their faith is unbreakable. So what makes you think your faith is any more valid? One thing I have faith in is that our creator isn't some egomaniac who sentences souls to eternal torture for living a few years of mortal life. Mortal lives that he has foreknowledge of every action & end-result. If the Judeo-Christian God is as the Bible says, then he's playing a game with all these souls.... Plain and simple.



posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 01:30 PM
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Originally posted by windword
reply to post by godlover25
 


So why was Jesus so upset that the weren't stoning rebellious youths?

It seems that there are a lot of contradictions in the words and actions of Jesus. Like when he despises the money changers and then gives a parable that curses the man for not giving his money to the money changers.

If Jesus wasn't in favor of the death penalty, why did he die by the death penalty? He obviously needed it for his mission.


The money changers he despised because they were plying their trade in the temple.


I think you mean when he is talking about rendering to Cesar what is Cesar's?

Matthew 22:15-22
King James Version (KJV)
15 Then went the Pharisees, and took counsel how they might entangle him in his talk.

16 And they sent out unto him their disciples with the Herodians, saying, Master, we know that thou art true, and teachest the way of God in truth, neither carest thou for any man: for thou regardest not the person of men.

17 Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not?

18 But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites?

19 Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.

20 And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?

21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

22 When they had heard these words, they marvelled, and left him, and went their way.

Some of the Jews were trying to test him, he basically was saying stay out of politics and if you as a country owe tax to Cesar then pay him the money he made and distributed to you. Likewise you will owe God for your sins but also give God your soul/spirit/heart/faith etc because these are owed to him. Separating the spiritual and material worlds.

Satan offered Jesus the world. So Satan must be in control of worldly things.

How on earth did you get a contradiction there? This is what I meant about not reading things in context. I have noticed that biblical knowledge is not unlike other knowledge now a days. Many people parrot points made by others without understanding the entirety of the story. I am not ridiculing anyone for making a mistake or not understanding and I hope it just illustrates that a lot of the supposed contradictions in the bible are contrived based on taking things out of context.
edit on 14-11-2012 by NihilistSanta because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 01:31 PM
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reply to post by godlover25
 


Thank you for quoting that it has been a while the last time I picked a bible up oops lol you said in an earlyer post that you would tell us what made you such a believer I would quite like to know what changed your mind peace brother



posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 01:47 PM
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Originally posted by NihilistSanta

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by godlover25
 


So why was Jesus so upset that the weren't stoning rebellious youths?

It seems that there are a lot of contradictions in the words and actions of Jesus. Like when he despises the money changers and then gives a parable that curses the man for not giving his money to the money changers.

If Jesus wasn't in favor of the death penalty, why did he die by the death penalty? He obviously needed it for his mission.


The money changers he despised because they were plying their trade in the temple.


I think you mean when he is talking about rendering to Cesar what is Cesar's?

Matthew 22:15-22
King James Version (KJV)
15 Then went the Pharisees, and took counsel how they might entangle him in his talk.

16 And they sent out unto him their disciples with the Herodians, saying, Master, we know that thou art true, and teachest the way of God in truth, neither carest thou for any man: for thou regardest not the person of men.

17 Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not?

18 But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites?

19 Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.

20 And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?

21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

22 When they had heard these words, they marvelled, and left him, and went their way.

Some of the Jews were trying to test him, he basically was saying stay out of politics and if you as a country owe tax to Cesar then pay him the money he made and distributed to you. Likewise you will owe God for your sins but also give God your soul/spirit/heart/faith etc because these are owed to him. Separating the spiritual and material worlds.

Satan offered Jesus the world. So Satan must be in control of worldly things.

How on earth did you get a contradiction there? This is what I meant about not reading things in context. I have noticed that biblical knowledge is not unlike other knowledge now a days. Many people parrot points made by others without understanding the entirety of the story. I am not ridiculing anyone for making a mistake or not understanding and I hope it just illustrates that a lot of the supposed contradictions in the bible are contrived based on taking things out of context.
edit on 14-11-2012 by NihilistSanta because: (no reason given)


Uhm. that's not a parable. I was referring to this contradiction.


Matthew 14:26
His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed

27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.


I still haven't gotten a decent answer to my death penalty questions?

Was Jesus against with the death penalty being enforced by mosiac law? Did he want to abolish that part of the law? Why did Jesus choose to die by the death penalty according to the rule of Roman law, and not as, say a priestly sacrifice?


edit on 14-11-2012 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 02:00 PM
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edit on 14-11-2012 by NihilistSanta because: Answered my own question



posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 02:19 PM
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Originally posted by mythos
Leviticus 20:9
If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death.
20:10 If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.

etc. etc. etc.



He said the verse must not pertain to ancient Israel, but oh wait, you think the entire book is about christians
.



posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 02:25 PM
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Originally posted by godlover25
reply to post by namine
 


So, in the Old Testament, violence was sometimes the punishment for certain crimes, so I suppose you could take certain verses literally, especially from Mosaic Law, but you have to have an understanding of Ancient Israel versus the Kingdom of Israel versus Exiled Israel versus 1st century Judaism versus the New Covenant

Anytime you see "violence" in the NT, it is allegorical for something - IE, when Jesus says to pluck out your eye instead of go to the fires of Gehenna, he did not literally condone plucking out your eye, he was trying to make a point about how serious sin is and using figurative language, just as we do today.

...

I hope this helps,

God bless


It does help.
One thing I’ll say is Christians always seem to have all the answers, for better or for worst.

Although there are still a few things I don’t understand. It’s well documented that violence was a part of Mosaic Law, punishment for certain crimes, in your own words. And these laws were passed down by the same God of the New Testament. Regardless of who they were intended for, aren’t these violent punishments a demonstration of God’s tolerance and encouragement of brutality? I understand you’d like to omit the OT because these verses don’t pertain to you or other Christians, but they are still words inspired by your God. These literal verses are still as “perfect” and true as any other verses in the Bible, yet you dismiss the evidence of God’s violence on the grounds of the words “not pertaining to you”.

I feel the way you laid out your OP is a bit disingenuous. You want to see if anyone can show you how God is “evil”, but the most damning evidence is in the OT, which must be ruled out because it doesn’t apply to you. I understand there are metaphors, like the one you pointed out, of plucking eyes, and cutting hands, which I don’t have a problem accepting, but really, if everything can be interpreted as a metaphor, then anyone can see whatever they want to see, and your interpretation may or may not be any more credible than someone else’s.

If you want to see how God is “evil”, there is plenty of evidence going around, but by grouping that together with sections of the Bible you cherry picked, you’ve built quite the foundation for yourself.
edit on 14-11-2012 by namine because: trim quote



posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 03:08 PM
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reply to post by Raelsatu
 


Hades is only a temporary prison,

The wicked will be destroyed at the final judgement before God creates again.

Why, if God exists as the Bible describes Him, would you have any right to judge Him for who he decides to whatever He pleases with?

Most of the arguments, it seems, against God, are from people who elevate themselves to "god" status.

After all, for an atheist to be a true atheist, he'd have to have omniscience....

*sigh*



posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 03:10 PM
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reply to post by birdyat101
 


Direct revelation.

God talked to me and told me He exists.

I won't cut corners or pull punches, and no I don't feel like being ridiculed and told how God spoke to me,

But He did.



posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 03:14 PM
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reply to post by godlover25
 


Every one hears him in there own way I see him when I look at the stars but what you call god I call Somthing ells



posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 03:24 PM
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reply to post by namine
 


God does not tolerate brutality,

He has the right to punish the wicked though.

Isa 33:22 For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; he will save us.

James 4:12 There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you--who are you to judge your neighbor?

Psalm 89:18 Indeed, our shield belongs to the LORD, our king to the Holy One of Israel.

Isaiah 1:10 Hear the word of the LORD, you rulers of Sodom; listen to the law of our God, you people of Gomorrah!

Isaiah 2:4 He will judge between the nations and will settle disputes for many peoples. They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore.

Isaiah 16:5 In love a throne will be established; in faithfulness a man will sit on it--one from the house of David--one who in judging seeks justice and speeds the cause of righteousness - this is also a prophecy of Messiah Jesus

Isaiah 51:7 "Hear me, you who know what is right, you people who have my law in your hearts: Do not fear the reproach of men or be terrified by their insults



posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 03:27 PM
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reply to post by birdyat101
 


Psalm 19:19 The heavens declare the glory of God;
And the firmament shows His handiwork.
2 Day unto day utters speech,
And night unto night reveals knowledge.
3 There is no speech nor language
Where their voice is not heard.
4 Their line has gone out through all the earth,
And their words to the end of the world.


There are many Names of the Father, the Holy One,

God Most High is known by all men, whether they realize it or not.

Romans 1:19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Romans 1:22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.



posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 03:32 PM
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Jesus backing up God on killing children


Mat 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?

[ Mat 15:4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.



posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 03:34 PM
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Originally posted by godlover25
reply to post by namine
 


God does not tolerate brutality,

He has the right to punish the wicked though.

...



Yes, and sometimes he's been shown to use violence as a method of punishment.

You are obviously a person of strong faith, and I'm genuinely intrigued by what gave you your conviction. I'd like to hear more about this revelation. Others might benefit from hearing it too, but if you're worried about ridicule you can send me a PM.

Promise I won't bite.



posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 03:46 PM
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reply to post by namine
 


I was on the road to destruction,

I was an atheist - backslid unbelieving Christian agnostic at the time of this happening -

I was at my wits end, the ravashes of the world had plagued me and taken there toll on me, I was in a hospital room,

I cried out to God, "God if your there just SHOW ME YOU EXIST! Please, if there is a GOD, you need to SHOW ME!!!!"

The TV in the room started flickering and changing colors, the atmosphere changed, my vision and senses were "altered", and a Voice.

"why do you not believe in God?",

"uhh, uhh, I don't know"

"well, God exists"

"okay"

"I said, GOD EXISTS!"

"YES!"

"Do you believe this?"

"yes"

"then stop doubting"

"I said, GOD EXISTS!, stop doubting!"

every time I'd reply yes I do believe, and start doubting in my heart, the Voice would rebuke me and tell me either stop doubting, God exists, or a similar dialogue

This was one of my experiences,

I've had others.



posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 04:03 PM
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reply to post by godlover25
 


Either you have schizophrenia or you're trolling us.





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