Brain-damaged man 'aware' of scientists' questions

Brain-damaged man 'aware' of scientists' questions

www.guardian.co.uk

A crash victim thought to have been in a vegetative state for more than a decade has used the power of thought to tell scientists he is not in pain.

Canadian Scott Routley, from London, Ontario, communicated with researchers via a brain scan, proving that he is conscious and aware. It is the first time such a severely brain-damaged patient has been able to provide clinically relevant information to doctors.

(visit the link for the full news article)

A pretty creative solution to someone who is unfortunately unable to communicate by regular means.

Presuming they are only "yes" and "no" answers could be a bit limiting but it is definitely a leap past what the previous amount of communication was.

With this breakthrough I can imagine us learning much. Perhaps they are in a world similar to those experienced by people having NDEs.

I'm sure we'll get some answers, as long as we ask the right questions.

www.guardian.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

Here's the published paper for reference:
www.nejm.org...

Sounds familiar anyone? Straight from an episode of House. I really wish I could remember which episode it was so I could post it along with this message. What a shame.

Great post OP! S&F.

reply to post by TheProphetMark


I don't remember the episode name, but it was the one with the guy that had Locked In Syndrome, and House was the only one that thought he was in anything but a vegetative state. They came up with the brain scan idea that allowed him to move a mouse on the screen up and down for yes and no answers.


It was S5:19 Locked In with Mos Def as the patient.

reply to post by Zaphod58


Haven't ever watched an episode of House but *shutter* Locked-In Syndrome sounds like Hell.

reply to post by ErroneousDylan


Yeah, their portrayal of it was kind of horrifying to watch, because when they were in the room with him, they showed it from his perspective, looking up at them from the bed, and the camera never moved. It's one of the more horrible fates I can think of.

Here is a video... Saw this on the news earlier, just amazing

He tells them he's not in pain

www.bbc.co.uk...

Originally posted by blupblup


Here is a video... Saw this on the news earlier, just amazing

He tells them he's not in pain

www.bbc.co.uk...

Thanks for the video!

I heard this on NPR this afternoon, and they said something like 20% of people in vegetative states may not be and could be communicated with via this method.

First thing I thought of was how many people over the years must have been fully aware of their family's discussions and debates regarding the pulling of the plug, and what percentage met that with "thank God" and what percent had nothing but a silent scream of "let me live!"

Scary stuff -- set yourself up with a living will to prevent others from being forced to make that decision, as I did -- if the moment comes, it's no one's idea but my own.

Originally posted by adjensen
I heard this on NPR this afternoon, and they said something like 20% of people in vegetative states may not be and could be communicated with via this method.

First thing I thought of was how many people over the years must have been fully aware of their family's discussions and debates regarding the pulling of the plug, and what percentage met that with "thank God" and what percent had nothing but a silent scream of "let me live!"

Scary stuff -- set yourself up with a living will to prevent others from being forced to make that decision, as I did -- if the moment comes, it's no one's idea but my own.

As much praise as I hear about meditation, I almost wonder if being in a state like that would calm some mental storms. I can imagine freaking out but eventually you'd just have to accept the situation and enjoy your own company, you'd really have no other choice. Still though.. I can barely deal with myself for a few minutes, let alone be forced to do it for an extended period of time...

There's another good question. I wonder if a consciously-aware vegetable state patient would have any context for time. It could seem like an eternity or it could be over before you know it.

Awesome post! :0)
Wow! This is amazing and kinda scary at the same time.

I'm happy that this man has finally been able to communicate to someone - anyone!

This gives me hope that the quality of life for such patients will be improved!

Other than studying him an his brain scans he is a publicly funded science project, rather sickening if you think about it. How many more "test subjects" are paid by the tax payers are there? I understand the importance in studying such concepts, I also understand the importance of those loved ones dealing with this. For 10+ years though of pain and suffering should be enough.

Originally posted by adjensen

First thing I thought of was how many people over the years must have been fully aware of their family's discussions and debates regarding the pulling of the plug, and what percentage met that with "thank God" and what percent had nothing but a silent scream of "let me live!"

adjensen, i can't imagine what i would do if confronted with a choice you had to make. I am sure you made the right decision for you.

however, i also think the scream could have been, "let me die" or "thank god" when the decision was made to pull the plug. who wants their entire existence to be in a hospital bed without communication with your family/friends?

just my .02 cents.

best,
West

Originally posted by westo

Originally posted by adjensen

First thing I thought of was how many people over the years must have been fully aware of their family's discussions and debates regarding the pulling of the plug, and what percentage met that with "thank God" and what percent had nothing but a silent scream of "let me live!"

adjensen, i can't imagine what i would do if confronted with a choice you had to make. I am sure you made the right decision for you.

Sorry, I may not have made that clear -- I've never had to make that decision for anyone else. I did, however, write out a living will, stating that I do not want to be hooked up to any machines, so that my daughter won't have to make that decision if I cannot.

who wants their entire existence to be in a hospital bed without communication with your family/friends?

I suppose it depends on whether you believed that you'd eventually come out of it. I'm not sure that most people would assume that they're never going to recover, even when they hear others talk about their condition.

Originally posted by adjensen
I heard this on NPR this afternoon, and they said something like 20% of people in vegetative states may not be and could be communicated with via this method.

First thing I thought of was how many people over the years must have been fully aware of their family's discussions and debates regarding the pulling of the plug, and what percentage met that with "thank God" and what percent had nothing but a silent scream of "let me live!"

Scary stuff -- set yourself up with a living will to prevent others from being forced to make that decision, as I did -- if the moment comes, it's no one's idea but my own.

Way back when I was a nursing student we were told that hearing was the last thing to go in a dying patient. Hopefully they are still being taught that and more hopefully it is relayed to the family.

reply to post by ErroneousDylan


I truly hope they continue on with this study. It's important. My uncle passed away when I was 18. He too was in a car accident. He was left in a vegetable state. I remember saying goodbye to him in the hospital. His body was still warm. But when we touched his hand, there was no movement. I remember looking at his head, and thinking, "gosh, you can't even tell he was in an accident." We all left wondering as they unplugged his machines, what if he was still our uncle? It was one of the most painful experiences I can remember.

This news item goes back to 2007. But the study has not been tested properly in my opinion. It assumes that you can tell conclusively that a certain part of the brain plays tennis 100% of the time.

It seems unusual that one part of the body (the ears) hear commands but no other part of the body works at all. That would mean input is working but output is not. If that was the case and their eyes were open they could use pictures to have her brain communicate.

Any more info on this? There must be since this story started in 2007 at Cambridge University.

This is amazing to me and hit hits home. My sisters sons father was in a car accident right after my sister became pregnant with their child. In fact my sister believes that she got pregnant literally just a few hours before the accident occurred... At any rate, the guy ended up vegetative and survived for 12 years in that state.

I've never discussed this before with anyone but one of my ex's... but when my nephew was a toddler I visited his father and tried... I don't know what I would call what I tried... I basically got in the guys face and told him that he would have to wake up now - that his son needed him to wake up. I honestly don't know why I did it. What I do know is that I was positive that the guy could understand what I was saying. I even got the sense that I had caused him pain.

He died some years later, never achieving any sort of visible awareness. Laying in bed eventually led to a series of infections and then to a catastrophic series of organ failures.

That is a guilt I've carried with me for about two decades now. A guilt more profound having read this information.

Ron, it's too late for this, but I'll say it anyway. I'm so sorry man. I wasn't trying to torture you. I really did think that you might wake up if you knew you had a son.

I wish I'd have had this kind of information back then. Maybe it could have given my nephew some peace and a chance to talk to his dad on some level.

~Heff

Originally posted by ErroneousDylan
reply to post by Zaphod58

 

Haven't ever watched an episode of House but *shutter* Locked-In Syndrome sounds like Hell.

You can induce it in people. On purpose. Crazy, innit? Want to lock in your worst enemy for a few decades? A bit of the right hormones here, a 3% sodium drip there, and bammo, locked in. I'm not saying it happens, but if you wanted to do that to someone, it's child's play, relatively.

WAY easier than giving them polonium.