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Papa John layoffs….Good!!!

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posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 03:46 PM
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reply to post by Tbrooks76
 


Exactly.


It's the same when unions make the cost of doing business go up then they cry when the business decides to go offshore.

It's like there is a mental deficiency that makes people not understand what the consequences of their actions are going to be. All of them should be locked in a rubber room.




posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 04:09 PM
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reply to post by TheAngryFarm
 


Well that creates a big problem then doesn't it...
If businesses want people to have experience but refuse to give them experience than how are they ever going to get the experience? Projects in school or at home? If it ain't " official work experience" most jobs don't wanna hear it. If you've had you job for a while then I can understand why you would see things the way you do but what you are missing is the mammoth in the car. You're right, they want the guy with four years experience. But please tell me how in the bloody blue hell one is to ever get the job if nobody will give them a break and a chance at obtaining said "experience." That's what my generation is continuously told to go to school for; to meet the qualifications of an entry level position so that we can begin working and obtaining that experience which is expected for a higher level position. Attempt to debate it all you like but unless you live in Under A BIG @zz Rock VERY FEW jobs will hire new employees without a college degree.

You tell people that if they aren't happy with the low end job that they should go out and educate themselves in order to qualify for better positions but you continue to ignore the issue that many who do so are being turned away time and time again on a daily basis.

What would you suggest? Start your own business? You claim to have done so. If that's a true statement then you are very aware of the fact that doing so takes money and that more than half will fail. What I would ask of you is for a clear and understandable explanation as to how one should go about coming into the money needed to start a business if they are currently struggling just to survive? We can't get a better job because unless we have had a job in the field they do not consider us to be "experienced" enough to be a profitable hire but how do we get the experience that they expect without someone cutting us a damn break?



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 04:27 PM
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reply to post by Anundeniabletruth
 


First off why do people need a degree for every little thing? Somewhere along the hype told us we need a degree and everybody say…duh ok I need a degree. It takes a degree to cook now. Whatever to happen an apprenticeship and on the job training? Working you way up a ladder and not starting at the top. Years ago only specialized fields needed a degree. But with like everything we took a good system and missed it up. I probably shouldn’t say this but sense you don’t know me, I make between 125,000 and 150,000 a year and don’t have a degree. I worked my way up from 7 dollars an hours about 20 years ago, to 62 dollars an hours, and will probably be getting a raise soon, for my part of the country that’s not bad.

Start a company…ha ha ha. Did you not read the complaints about having a small and mid-size company? Unless you know of a way to jump straight into a big business its what I’ve have been complaining about.
IF we want to fix things, it’s not going to be by asking companies to pay out more. It would take years to fix all our mistakes, but you know something.....A I good start would to be to stop making stupid mistakes.



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 05:02 PM
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Obama’s reelection means the Affordable Care Act should remain intact. In the summer, Schnatter said he would have to raise the cost of pizza by 11 to 14 cents per pie because of healthcare reform.

Never mind that CNN refuted that figure, pointing out that many of Papa John’s employees already are part-timers who are not guaranteed company-sponsored healthcare coverage. The company’s own 2011 annual report states that “most restaurant team members [of which there are 14,400] work part-time and are paid on an hourly basis,” suggesting that only the approximately 2,100 full-time employees—who presumably already have coverage—would be impacted.


Papa John's CEO blames Obamacare on pending layoffs
edit on 13-11-2012 by Jaellma because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 05:23 PM
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Originally posted by Tbrooks76
reply to post by Anundeniabletruth
 


First off why do people need a degree for every little thing? Somewhere along the hype told us we need a degree and everybody say…duh ok I need a degree. It takes a degree to cook now. Whatever to happen an apprenticeship and on the job training? Working you way up a ladder and not starting at the top. Years ago only specialized fields needed a degree. But with like everything we took a good system and missed it up. I probably shouldn’t say this but sense you don’t know me, I make between 125,000 and 150,000 a year and don’t have a degree. I worked my way up from 7 dollars an hours about 20 years ago, to 62 dollars an hours, and will probably be getting a raise soon, for my part of the country that’s not bad.

Start a company…ha ha ha. Did you not read the complaints about having a small and mid-size company? Unless you know of a way to jump straight into a big business its what I’ve have been complaining about.
IF we want to fix things, it’s not going to be by asking companies to pay out more. It would take years to fix all our mistakes, but you know something.....A I good start would to be to stop making stupid mistakes.


These are all things that I agree with and I've yet to make any argument otherwise and you've yet to tell me just how a person from my generation is supposed to get our foot in the freakin door of a job nowadays when they are not willing to start allowing even those of us with their required degree into the damn door.

As far as your opinion about the college degree, I could not agree more but unfortunately the job makers that you support so much do not share our opinion. They are the people who refuse to hire a young man or woman if they do not have a college degree relating to the field.

I didn't set the system up the way it is and I certainly do not like having to go thousands into debt just to hope I qualify for a job better than one that pays minimum wage and will hopefully promote me one of these years...
I am currently a 25 year old father and husband of two who is going to college in product development engineering with a focus on electronics and robotics. I didn't want to go to college, hell I tried finding a better way for over 5 years and the best that I could ever get was temp work who let ya go before they have to make you a full time employee. With those jobs it was impossible to make enough to pay the bills and buy a vehicle so I didn't have one therefore I was unable to try other locations outside of the area. There are some local big business who kept telling me that they would only give me a shot if I had a college degree, believe me I tried even though I knew it wasn't going to happen, I just kept getting shot down at every turn.

You've yet to tell me just how exactly you would expect someone from my generation to get a job that pays better than minimum wage in our current time. The only thing you've told me is how you wish it was, and I too wish it were like that but the fact is simply that it is not.

My generation had nothing to do with America screwing up yet we are the people who suffer the most because of it and often even get blamed by older people for it and that pisses me off more than you can imagine.



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 05:42 PM
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Originally posted by Anundeniabletruth

What would you suggest? Start your own business? You claim to have done so. If that's a true statement then you are very aware of the fact that doing so takes money and that more than half will fail. What I would ask of you is for a clear and understandable explanation as to how one should go about coming into the money needed to start a business if they are currently struggling just to survive? We can't get a better job because unless we have had a job in the field they do not consider us to be "experienced" enough to be a profitable hire but how do we get the experience that they expect without someone cutting us a damn break?





Want to know what my business startup costs were? About $60.

Thats it, and it couldve been done cheaper. I own a beer soap company. It's all natural, healthy for your skin, and doesnt contain any nasty chemicals. I started making soap since there is a noticeable difference between chemical filled store bought soap, and my beer soap. Beer is the main ingredient and people love it.

At first I started selling online, and sold a bar here and there. Then I approached some stores in my area and let them sample it. Just under a year later, my soap is in 5 retail stores and I'm selling pretty well online. It certainly wont make me wealthy, but its added income that I mainly use as fun money to buy toys (aka guns) with. Most importantly, I have a high percentage of repeat business and as a result I have in the neighborhood of an extra $1000 a month because of it.

Will it continue to grow? I hope so, but even if I remain stable where I'm at, it's proof that extra income can be found with very little startup money and a good idea. Hell, with sites like Kickstarter, startup money isnt anywhere near as hard to come by as it once was.

In regards to "your generation", I'm in my early 30's and even I have noticed the younger adults want most things handed to them and instant gratification. Both of those will not happen.

It's time to nut up, and stop expecting other people to do anything for you. You have to do it yourself.



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 05:56 PM
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reply to post by TheAngryFarm
 


Where and how could you have started working at $7 an hour nearly 20 years ago and have worked your way into a 6 figure income if you're only in your early 30s? The America I live in has labor laws and who in the world was paying teens $4 dollars more than minimum wage when EVERYBODY else who is willing to hire teenagers will not start them out at a penny more than the lowest they can get by with because they are kids and assumed "unskilled." Something about your story just doesn't sound right, kind of like an excuse for being incapable of providing an answer to a question a man has walked himself into... If the story you present is indeed true in it's entirety, than yours sounds very much like a very exceptional case with a lot of luck and should not and does not represent the majority of the pie.
edit on 13-11-2012 by Anundeniabletruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 06:54 PM
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Originally posted by FreebirdGirl
Poor Papa John's


The chain made $44 million dollars in profit last year, and its CEO John Schnatter lives in a 45,000-square-foot mansion. But he is threatening to not provide health care to his employees as required by Obamacare because it would cost the company between $5 and $8 million a year.[

Do the math, folks. That means Papa John's annual profit would be reduced to somewhere in the range of $36 to $39 million a year. Schnatter adds that otherwise he will have to charge customers 15 cents extra for a pizza.


Not true at all and betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of Papa Johns. Schnatter is not talking about his corporation here. He's talking about the franchisees. These are all small businesses who pay Papa Johns to use the franchise. It costs the individual restaurant owner approximately $250K for the site itself. The franchise fee is $25,000, plus 5% of sales as a franchise royalty fee. This money goes to corporate headquarters and contributes to the profit margin of the parent corporation. Papa Johns also requires 7% of sales be used in marketing efforts. You buy all your ingredients from headquarters.

Are you beginning to get the picture here? That's you or me out there shelling out a solid quarter milllion to open a store. After that we get to hire the staff. Corporate headquarters doesn't pay for benefits; you or I do, and as a small business owner margins are so tight that this will mean the difference between opening a store and not opening a store. If I have one franchise and have less than fifty employees, I may squeak out of Obamacare, but if I decide to open a second store, this puts me over the limit, so I won't do it. That means jobs are lost and not created.

Is this important. You bet it is. Did you know that almost HALF of all McDonalds franchise owners started out flinging fries at the minimum wage. And now they are one percenters. Goodness, how did that happen? Hard work and dedication is how, without a government that hates business.

That's why the stock market went down several hundred points after the election. So be prepared for a longer deeper recession, folks. You go right ahead and blame the banks. I'll blame Obama's socialist policies.

Good luck holding onto your job.
edit on 11/13/2012 by schuyler because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 07:17 PM
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I hate the idea of anyone losing their job, but I blame it on the pizza. There are too many other pizza chains that make much better pizza.................. they aren't competing as well because of a poor quality product.



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 07:23 PM
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Originally posted by Anundeniabletruth

Where and how could you have started working at $7 an hour nearly 20 years ago and have worked your way into a 6 figure income if you're only in your early 30s? The America I live in has labor laws and who in the world was paying teens $4 dollars more than minimum wage when EVERYBODY else who is willing to hire teenagers will not start them out at a penny more than the lowest they can get by with because they are kids and assumed "unskilled." Something about your story just doesn't sound right, kind of like an excuse for being incapable of providing an answer to a question a man has walked himself into... If the story you present is indeed true in it's entirety, than yours sounds very much like a very exceptional case with a lot of luck and should not and does not represent the majority of the pie.
edit on 13-11-2012 by Anundeniabletruth because: (no reason given)


Evidently reading comprehension is an issue here, because I never stated I worked anywhere for $7 an hour, nor did I say I worked anywhere 20 years ago, and I did not say I make 6 figures. It helps if you look at the name of the person you are trying to reply to.

Want to try this all over again and actually reply to me instead of someone else?



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 07:46 PM
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It's not good business practice to take political sides. I wouldn't be surprised if Papa John's notices a decline in its business profits. It's a pretty lame excuse to say you need to lay-off pizza workers because you may not get your tax cut for the rich, or making accusations that supplying healthcare to your workers will affect your business. This guy is making millions and for him to say paying for workers healthcare is going to hurt him is a joke.

Maybe he should realize his minimum wage workers are whats making his business successful. Without his workers, his business can't survive. Maybe he needs to cut back on a few of his expensive toys, and start realizing how important his workers really are. Most rich people are tight with the buck and are such whiners.



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 08:19 PM
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reply to post by TheAngryFarm
 


Sorry, my mistake. I screwed up on that one and I'll admit it. I should have paid more attention to the name and I would have noticed that just because neither have an avatar does not mean that you were the same person. I'll apologize once more and now leave this discussion upon coming to the realization that I am far too stupid to take part in it. Maybe one of these days I will learn my place... And once again, I feel like a complete moron and apologize for my screw-up, it's the only thing I seem to be good at.



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 08:33 PM
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Originally posted by jimmyx
funny how they can give away 2 million pizzas, but cannot give simple health care to their employees...i'll pay 15 cents more per pizza, so their employees can have health care, but, obviously that's not the owner's point, he's just a greedy 1 percenter, and represents the groupthink of that class of people
edit on 13-11-2012 by jimmyx because: spell


Yeah if they're too greedy to support their employees I'm not interested in their pizza.


I'm happy to only give my business to those who treat their lowest employees like human beings



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 08:34 PM
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reply to post by Tbrooks76
 


...or they could raise the price of their crappy pizzas by $.15 and then he wouldn't have to lay anybody off.

The guy is just having a temper tantrum. Buy your pizzas from Pizza Hut instead and they'll just have to hire more employees to make up for the increased demand.

Problem solved.



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 08:59 PM
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I worked at PJ's for 2 years.
How they could get away with never giving employees breaks, charging more for delivery but not paying the drivers more when gas goes up, no free food, on and on.
Worst pit I ever worked in .
Schnatter is a dillhole if he can't do more for his employees.

Great rant though, you're spot on.
FREE health care.
Right..............
Somebody has to pay!!!
edit on 13-11-2012 by Asktheanimals because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 10:04 PM
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I love how you just made up numbers, than used it to support your argument, all while starting with talk about separating fantasy from reality:




Now let take a minute to separate the fantasy world from reality and let’s break this down as to what real companies are going to do. Let’s say it cost a company 2000 dollars a year per employee, and you run mid to small size company with 200 employees. That 400,000 dollars a year of loss profit. Now if you run a company with 200 employees it’s not a stretch to say you could be doing pretty well and could be making 4 million a year. 400,000 would almost 1/8 of you income (not including all the taxes that upcoming too). Now believe it or not most rich like their money and aren’t take 1/8 income loss. If I was rich I would like my money and be annoyed to have a 1/8 loss every year.


That's freakin classic!



posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 12:03 AM
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Originally posted by Anundeniabletruth
reply to post by JIMC5499
 


I am about to piss a lot of people off so you might wanna go ahead and take off the panties so they don't get too tight.

I think that if you are given the right to run a BIG business in this country then you should be required to provide for your employees. If it wasn't for them you wouldn't have a damn business. The difference between 30 million and 40 million is hardly noticeable when compared to the difference between the $30,000 and $40,000 that many Americans make in a single year. You're still a rich bastard with more money than your grandchildren could ever need if you live extremely comfortably while also being very responsible.

Okay I think I should just go ahead and make my own post about the rant I am about to get into...

But yeah, it ain't gonna hurt the company to jack their prices up a quarter if it's killin the poor guy, us nobodies will still pay it.
edit on 13-11-2012 by Anundeniabletruth because: (no reason given)



You are not given "a right" to run a big business in this country. It's not a right. You are "privileged" to be able to start a business in this country and hopefully it will be successful and make it big. You put in the money, the hours and the sweat and you might make it.

If it's a right then I want my own big business.... Where is it Obama?!!? Give it to me!!!



posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 11:05 AM
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reply to post by Anundeniabletruth
 


That's a damn shame. If they would have gotten degrees in Engineering or trained as a certified Welder or Machinist, they would have no problem finding a job. For that I don't blame them, I blame our educational system.



posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 11:08 AM
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Originally posted by Anundeniabletruth
reply to post by TheAngryFarm
 


Where and how could you have started working at $7 an hour nearly 20 years ago and have worked your way into a 6 figure income if you're only in your early 30s? The America I live in has labor laws and who in the world was paying teens $4 dollars more than minimum wage when EVERYBODY else who is willing to hire teenagers will not start them out at a penny more than the lowest they can get by with because they are kids and assumed "unskilled." Something about your story just doesn't sound right, kind of like an excuse for being incapable of providing an answer to a question a man has walked himself into... If the story you present is indeed true in it's entirety, than yours sounds very much like a very exceptional case with a lot of luck and should not and does not represent the majority of the pie.
edit on 13-11-2012 by Anundeniabletruth because: (no reason given)


Glad you asked but it’s a long story… 7 an hour to 62.5 before the age of 35
(I wrote this fast and don’t feel like proof reading, so read through any and all type-o’s)
I started by cutting grass at 16 to get gas and lets face it beer money. What teen didn’t drink. I went to a guys house and his front yard was really small, I offered to cut his yard for 20$. He looked at me a said “Front and Back”, looking at the front yard and seeing his narrow lot he was on, I guessed his back yard was small too so I said sure. He replied “Are you sure”. I said “yeap I’ll do it”. So I cut he front yard and went to open the gate to the back yard. His back was narrow but like 50 freaking yards long, and he just moved into the house and back had never been cut. The grass was 3 feet tall. The guy came out laughing at me and said “you give you word, 20$ front and back”. I looked at him and said..I’ll keep my word. So I ended up spending the next 3 full days cutting this guys grass for 20 dollars, I would push the lawn mower 2 feet and it would bog down. Anyway on the 3 day I had about an hour worth of lawn left when it started raining hard. I didn’t want to come back to that freaking yard another day so I just keep cutting in the rain. I went was done, I knocked on the door soaking wet and asked for my 20 dollars. As it turned the guy owned an electrical contracting company, and he was impressed that I keep my word, and that I even was working in rain to finish. He offered me an electrician’s helper position right there on the spot, 7 dollars an hour.
He had contract for a remodel of shopping center, my first day I placed with an older electrician that believed you learn by doing. They need temp lighting installed and the circuits were live. The guy showed me how to hook up a light to live circuit without getting shocked…yet I messed up and got shocked. I guess a lot would be upset but I fascinated, who did this invisible stuff that I can’t see just shock me, and how this invisible stuff make light. I got shocked and thought it was awesome. We didn’t have google then, so I had to go to the library. I found every book I could on electricity and learn theory, then started learning the NEC (electrical codes). I guess because it so interesting to me I took it like a duck in water. Within a year I went from helper to top helper, and the guy I was working with was shorthanded with his service department and needed someone to go on service calls. He called me in his office, and told me I doing really well and wanted to know if I will go on few service calls. I said hell yeah….but there was a catch. I was 17 close to being 18 and nobody wants a teenage fixing there electrical. He paired me up with older guy that wasn’t that great at doing electrical, so when we went somewhere he would talk to client and acted like was the electrician but then I fix all issues. I did that for about 6 month or so and it pushed me to want get my Journeyman Card because I wanted be able to show people I was the electrician. So at about 19 I started taking journeyman classes to prep, by law I had to wait till I was 20 to actually take the test. In class some guys were talking about industrial instrumentation. Sounded kind of cool and there was traded school where I was taking the code classes that offered course in instrumentation. I figured why not and signed up that too. I was cool, we got to hands on learning. I got paired with an E&I maintained man from international paper (paper mill), they paid for him to take class as continuing education program. The guys was amazed that at 19 I knew as much as did about electrical doing so well in class. He offered me a job, not for the mill directly, but pulled some string I got me position with a maintains contractor that was in the mill. I felt bad leaving the guy I had been working with, but by this time he was paying 9 an hour and this guy just



posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 11:09 AM
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reply to post by Tbrooks76
 

and this guy just offered me starting position at 13 and hour. I was there for about 3 months when it was announced they were going to closing parts of the plant and start import pulp. I was working on the pulp side of plant, and we all got laid off. Not wanting to back to 9 an hour, I went looking for another industrial electrical contractor. I got a job at place called E&I inc. that had job in of all places a doo-doo plant doing an expansion. The foreman on that job was guy name Denny and I was helper. On day we did swap over, changing one doo-doo pump for another. The company a few guys working there one a controls guy, and when did the change over the new pump didn’t work right. Something was wrong with the controls, the plant need the pump running it was one key pumps in the process. Denny told us all nobody was going home till the pump was running. So there the whole crew in the MCC (motor control center) waiting on this controls guy to fix the problem. We were supposed to go at 5pm and here was 6pm and the controls guy still hasn’t got it working. The crew was just sitting there waiting, so I grab a copy of the control wiring started looking it over. It took about 5 minutes and figured out what the problem was, If a contact that was supposed to normally closed was wired normally open it would cause the problems were having. So I told Denny I think I found the problem, Denny was just pissed because it was getting late this pump was working, the controls guys was annoyed cause he find the problem, and when I said I found it, they both looked me annoyingly like what hell this 19 year old helper know about controls, and before I explain Denny told me to go wait in outside. I said to myself fine whatever I’m not push the issue. About 7pm rolled around and Denny when from pissed to super pissed, he came outside for min to claim down. I was still out there waiting to go home, and he walked up and asked so what do think the problem is. I told about the contact, a few mins later he walked outside, and with a pissed look on face and yelled at me to go the f---k home. I left didn’t know what happen, he just looked pissed. Every morning we had a safety meeting, the next day the controls guy wasn;t there. As it turned out Denny wasn't mad at me, he went in there the night before and told the controls guy what I said about the contacts, the controls guy tried it and fixed the problem. Denny was mad this high paid controls guy couldn’t fix the problem and I did. That morning Denny throw a bunch drawings in my lap and congrats, you got the 3 dollar an hours raise and your our new controls guy. Now I’m 19 years old and 15 dollars an hour. After this job was done about, a 3 month project, one of the part owners of the company want to slit off and start up is own, he wanted to be a full owner and not a part owner. This guy was good friends with Denny and Denny was good friends with me. The guy talk Denny into helping start it up, and Denny talk me into going with them. Chip was the part owners name, now Chip was sneaky. He didn’t tell the other partners he was starting is own company. By day we worked with them, and night we all meet up and bid and estimate jobs. We never bid on a job the other company was biding, and the way it works is you if you bid 15 jobs you be lucky to get one. So Chip was doing a lot of estimating and took me and Denny under his wing to teach us estimating to in order to help him out. Then it happen we landed a big job. Denny and Chip put their house up as collateral and browed the money to get started. I was offered to be a part owner, but I had to put some money in too. I wasn't as willing to do that. Now the rolls changed a little, Chip was managing, Denny was going off to run the jobs, and Chip was letting me estimate. I hated it!!!
I knew most the projects were being done with Chip and Denny borrowing money and putting their houses up, and here I am trying to estimate jobs for them. It was stressful, anytime I got them a job, I would think crap hope I didn’t under estimate this. They always give jobs to lowest bidder, so the question was why I’m the loosest did I missing something? Are we going to make money on this? Then there was constant pressure to get jobs too. I was always stressed and worried.
By the time I was 22 I was making 19 hour and was doing estimating full time, and constantly stressed out. My father came to one day asked me I want to come work with the company he did, Dad is piping designer for an engineering firm. He told me his company was look for an entry level draft for the electrical department. Me being constantly stress and not like my job asked how much does it pay. He said 13 an hour. That was a 6 dollar an hour hit, I said hell No. A few months later a job I bided was going kind of bad. So moron hooked up an expensive transform wrong and put a hot wire to the ground. It blew the bottom out and ruins the transform and did damage to some surrounding equipment. A few thousand in damage, it almost the took the profit marriage for that job, we would be luckly if we made anything. I always felt the heat when jobs were going wrong, because I bid them. I asked my Dad to tell me more about drafting, told me this in nut shell, I started out at very bottom at 7 an hour doing construction in a few years I’ve tripled my money, the drafting position he wanted me take was for 12 and entry level, and that if worked as hard there I could triple my money again in another 4 years. So I told Chip, I was going to try it. I couldn’t put up with the stress of estimating and help him run the company.
So at 22 I became a drafter, for 12 an hour. Within 6 months I got bump up 15 an hour. A year and haft later was a new title and a raise, junior designer 20 and hour. Then few years later a designer, by the time I was 30 I was senior E&I designer, and was making that 48 an hour. Then a wonderful happen, you see a few years back windows 95 came out and the internet was coming of age. Everybody want to go to school for something to do with computers. Nobody was going to school for engineering and design degrees. So as a lot the older engineers and designer where retiring there wasn’t that many people coming up to take their places. Still have that going to this day. Supply and demand, now engineering firm are needed good engineers and designer and market is very completive. It drove the wages up, with in 5 years It went from 48 to the mid 60’s and lots of overtime. Now on the low end high 50s on the high end 70s some companies will pay in 80s if you know the right drafting software
edit on 14-11-2012 by Tbrooks76 because: pasted wrong thing.
edit on 14-11-2012 by Tbrooks76 because: (no reason given)





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