New petition on Whitehouse.gov: Strip the Citizenship from Everyone who Signed a Petition to Secede

Here's everyone that has signed this petition.

Check out your state.

petitions.whitehouse.gov...

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
reply to post by wirefly

 

It was the moronic loud vocal minority secessionists that started the anger.

Secession will fail simply because USA does NOT belong to the secessionists, Congress or the President. It BELONGS to the People.

You are entirely correct. It belongs to the people...even the moronic loud vocal ones. Geeesh.

Sessession is a constitutional right. Texas has has a sepertist group since forever...no news here folks.

Plus..If it did ever happen...Canada will take you in....LOL !

reply to post by wirefly


Since it belongs to the people, if they choose to dissolve this joke of a union, that is perfectly within their rights.

Unless of course you believe people should not be allowed to do whatever they choose to do with their own property.

Dear secessioinists,

You are a widely scattered group. Perhaps your sentiments would be taken more seriously if you simply renounce your citizenship; then you could have a diaspora like Gypsies/Travellers, or Jews! Make your own "diasporic constitution", and carry on.
The rest of my thoughts are at this post from another thread this morning:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I didn't see this thread before I thought about stripping citizenship from those folks, or, alternatively, them simply RENOUNCING their citizenship.

Not as fun as it might seem. Renouncing your Citizenship: Madness or Sanity? from Forbes.com, late May this year.

Whether sane or mad, it is NOT cheap and easy.

Originally posted by TheAngryFarm
reply to post by wirefly

 

Since it belongs to the people, if they choose to dissolve this joke of a union, that is perfectly within their rights.

Unless of course you believe people should not be allowed to do whatever they choose to do with their own property.

Yes...wait, what?
I'm all for something taking place on this. I don't think it's going to happen because people are too lazy and sheepified, however, when they do get enough, things will change. If anything happens from this, at least it will be a sign that people are waking up. But, alas, I think they are just going to roll over and hit the snooze button again.

reply to post by TheAngryFarm

Unless of course you believe people should not be allowed to do whatever they choose to do with their own property.

Dude, you're going to give yourself a stroke with all your tantruming. Your face is turning purple.

You think you can secede, take all your toys and leave? Not reality.

Not trying to spam here, mods, but, the article deserves to be perused by these pipe-dream quitters:
Here's what you can expect:
Renouncing Your Citizenship: Madness or Sanity? from Forbes mag, back in the spring.

If you don’t like it, go somewhere else! With all of the options available to you, why settle for subpar service? That’s great advice when you’re evaluating where to eat dinner, but does that same advice hold true for your citizenship?

That's effectively what you're asking for, right? "I want out!"
Keep reading:

Not Tax-Friendly

According to experts, the United States is getting far less tax-friendly as the country finds itself in serious economic trouble. U.S. taxes are almost sure to rise in the coming years and with the political climate favoring taxing the wealthy even more, the nations wealthy are finding it more advantageous to take their family, and their money, elsewhere.Before you consider renouncing your citizenship and moving out of the country, you’ll probably want to earn your way out of the 99%. Some countries don’t make it easy for you to move in. One Caribbean island requires that you purchase a home of at least $400,000 or make a minimum contribution of $250,000 to a public charity. Italy, as well as other nations, make it easier to become a resident, but the cost of moving out of the United States will be high.

But wait, there's MORE!

Exit Tax

If you were to liquidate every investment you have today, what would you owe the IRS? Even the median income earning citizen may have a 401(k) of six figures or more. In order to renounce your citizenship, you have to pay an exit tax equal to the taxes you would owe on all of your investments.

and, and.....are you taking your whole family with you?

Don’t Expect to Come Back

If you’re hoping to become an official citizen of another country, but still spend the majority of your time in the United States, that probably won’t work. In order to come back, you’ll likely need a visa and that will likely give you a maximum of 120 days in the country. If you’re found to be acting as a resident instead of visitor, expect that visa to be revoked.

Your Family’s Tax Bill

In the eyes of the IRS, once you renounce your citizenship, the IRS treats you as if you passed away. If you leave family or friends any money, they will have to pay tax equal to the current estate tax rates. If you left a family member $10 million, the IRS will take $3.5 million of it in taxes.

The Bottom Line

Is it worth the hassle? People with a lot of assets, a love of another country and its culture, and a good attorney may find that renouncing their United States citizenship may have some advantages, but for most citizens moving abroad for financial reasons probably isn’t a practical or financially sound choice.

Think about it!!!
But, hey, you don't want to? You're mad as hell and you're not going to take it anymore? Okay then....
no one can make you think about it.
Just don't say you weren't warned.

reply to post by wildtimes


I dont believe the secession is by any means a rude thing at this point i believe its the only way to get attention that 14 states have people some of which are democratic states that THEY FIRMLY disagree with what the GOVERNMENT is doing. Writing to your congressman will get you a computerized generic letter with a fill in the name blank thank you for your concern. we will file this in the idgafra (I dont give a flying rats a) box, we will shortly send you a letter denying the crediblity of your concern, thank you again for wasting our time its much appreciated.c
It isnt about the woman in congress its not about the black man in office its not about the gay senators.

If you think its about that thats just funny and i thing your stuck back in time.
Its about the rights being violated...just think of it this way its the people more awake than you are.

reply to post by wildtimes


Mock "secessionist" reply.

Dear Socialist

You make up the vast majority. but your ideology is in direct conflict of the Constitution, which is the law of the land. I would like to offer you the opportunity to renounce your citizenship. If you intend to stay you are expected to take up the cause of liberty. Rest assured "I" will be leaving no time soon.

So what exactly did that accomplish.

Make no mistake - in America - 51% of the people do not tell the other 49% how to live...

Originally posted by rockintitz
reply to post by muse7

 

It is not about who won!
Everyday the federal government creeps more and more into our lives.
This is not the way it is supposed to be, according to the laws set forth by the people who created our great nation. And MOST Americans are not only compliant with this, but they applaud it!
This nation was founded on the beliefs that tyrannical government will always seek power, and that the citizens should always have the right to espouse it.

So please, don't turn this into a left/right thread. Turn it into an individual rights system of beliefs. If you love this country, as I do, it should be that simple.

the people that created our great nation allowed slavery to exist...i guess that WASN'T a tyrannical government to you. if we went back to our founding fathers way of "liberty" and "freedom" , we would be able to own slaves.

reply to post by muse7

Well I must say I agree with the better candidate thing for sure !

Originally posted by muse7
I like that, let's see these fake secessionists put their money where their mouth is

I'm sure there are many right wing paradises where these nuts can go live! Where there are no social safety nets, no health care and where they can get into daily gunfights

There are many immigrants waiting to be part of this great union, we won't miss these crybabies

Funny you talk about social safety nets, health care, and gun fights as if Republicans and conservatives don't want peace, or people to be taken care of, yet your avatar is a typically liberal, Democrat picture of violence, of a person who is obviously used to forcing others to do what he wants them to do, whether they want to or not.

Very accurate of your kind.

/TOA

reply to post by MissCoyote

If you think its about that thats just funny and i thing your stuck back in time.
Its about the rights being violated...just think of it this way its the people more awake than you are.

Where did that come from??

I know what it's about, but thanks. I'm plenty awake and informed. That doesn't change what secession entails, or renunciation of your citizenship. You don't get to just "quit" and clear out with all your "stuff" intact. They'll take lots of it from you on the way out. Check out the article. I didn't write it, I just looked it up this morning while pondering this post-election frenzy.

Originally posted by muse7

Originally posted by cconn487
One could say those who want their states to stay slaves to the federal government's rules and regulations that supersede their own are unpatriotic to the country our forefathers created and died for numerous times.

The United States of America

not

The Federal United States of America

edit on 13-11-2012 by cconn487 because: (no reason given)

That's funny considering the fact that the founding fathers realized states had too much power, and got rid of the Articles of Confederation

That's funny considering they included the 10th Amendment to the Bill of Rights.

Strike two!

/TOA

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by MissCoyote

 

If you think its about that thats just funny and i thing your stuck back in time.
Its about the rights being violated...just think of it this way its the people more awake than you are.

Where did that come from??

I know what it's about, but thanks. I'm plenty awake and informed. That doesn't change what secession entails, or renunciation of your citizenship. You don't get to just "quit" and clear out with all your "stuff" intact. They'll take lots of it from you on the way out. Check out the article. I didn't write it, I just looked it up this morning while pondering this post-election frenzy.

What Wildtimes posted is true. If you try to expatriate yourself they make it EXTREMELY painful to do so.

If you have such misgivings about our country, as I do, then attempting to leave rather than attempt to make things better... or at least more of how you believe it should be... does no good. The only time I would leave this country... a nation that I have bled, sweated, and cried for... is if we had completely become a USSR-style socialist nation, and that hasn't happened yet.

But if everyone who disagrees with this administration just up and leaves, then no one will be left to speak against the socialization of America. Because once you leave, you're gone and unless what I've read is not accurate, there is practically no coming back. Once American, always American unless you renounce... then se le vie for good.

I don't like this administration, or what it stands for. But until I'm certain that a fiscally conservative, socially liberal America is lost I won't give up on it.

reply to post by WWJFKD


Dear MissC(WOOPS! Wrong member). Dear WWWJFKD,

I appreciate your response. Rest assured that I understand your fears that the Constitution is being blatantly ignored if not downright eliminated/poisoned.

We already have, for generations now, a socialist infrastructure. I can't afford to leave, although over the years, I have wanted to.

I bet if you wanted to (which you said you don't), neither could you, or the vast majority of the people who think this is as easy as "going south of the border" and living "incognito."

I'm just pointing out what I learned about what it takes to "ex-patriate AND renounce your citizenship." You have to pay to leave (prorated taxes on what you own), and you have to pay (buy) your way into the other "nation" as well (by proving you can survive on your own for x number of months or years), or buying a house worth at least y, and becoming an ASSET to the place you're going. Not a liability.

Also, please keep in mind that the FOUNDING FATHERS were dealing with 4 million people in 13 states, not 52ish and 300-million plus.
www.constitutionfacts.com...

One of the enduring features of our Constitution is its flexibility. At the time of its ratification, the population of the United States was around 4 million and today that population exceeds 309 million. Since its adoption the Constitution has only changed 27 times! Actually, since 1791 (with the inclusion of the Bill of Rights) it has only changed 16 times. That is an amazing fact considering the changes in technology, infrastructure, population, etc. in this country in more than 200 years.

The framers of the Constitution realized that no document could cover all of the changes that would take place to ensure its longevity.

Here's some suggestions for amendments that never made it:

The following is a very limited list of some of those proposed amendments that never left the halls of Congress:

1876: an attempt to abolish the United States Senate

1876: the forbidding of religious leaders from occupying a governmental office or receiving federal funding

1878: an Executive Council of Three should replace the office of President

1893: renaming this nation the “United States of the Earth”

1893: abolishing the United States Army and Navy

1894: acknowledging that the Constitution recognizes God and Jesus Christ as the supreme authorities in human affairs.

1912: making marriage between races illegal

1914: finding divorce to be illegal

1916: all acts of war should be put to a national vote. Anyone voting yes had to register as a volunteer for service in the United States Army

1933: an attempt to limit the personal wealth to $1 million

1936: an attempt to allow the American people to vote on whether or not the United States should go to war

1938: the forbidding of drunkenness in the United States and all of its territories

1947: the income tax maximum for an individual should not exceed 25%

1948: the right of citizens to segregate themselves from others

1971: American citizens should have the alienable right to an environment free of pollution.

Yours truly,
a fellow uneasy 13th generation American

Succession, the act of the state trying to leave the union. This is not the first time that this talk has been discussed, or proposed or even suggested. But here is the question that must be asked with this thread:
When has dissention ever been considered disloyalty?
We are a nation of laws, and of freedoms, of which one such is the freedom of speech. People who are dissatisfied with the government, and there have always been those who do not like or are dissatisfied with the federal government.

While it is simple to state let them go, the reality is that you can not just separate nor can states go their separate ways, no matter how easy they believe it to be. The economies of the states are so intertwined, there is no real way to separate such, and then there are other matters to consider, and that would be the mass chaos that would ensue if such did ever happened.
The problem also arises with what would happen with those who want to remain in one place or another? Then there is the finances along with assets that are there. But there is one little stickler that is not so readily known: In whose backyard would you simply put material that could eliminate just about all life in a good 10 to 50 mile radius? Would you accept such? Currently there is worries about a nuclear armed Iran, well how about a state that decides to break away, could you accept them possessing and being able to launch a viable, tested nuclear weapon right in your back yard or neighbor?

And energy security, would you be so willing to give up such for letting one state go? How about food, how about those bread prices? It is not so simple or easy to just say go, not with the US as each state has something that would contribute to the country at large. Different resources that is used and shared, and ultimately making the entire counter interdependent on the other. Not to mention the logistics of such, as there would be a mass chaos of people moving in and out of the area for such.

And then there is one other group, that many fail to take into account, the Native Americans on their reservations. Consider this, they own/possess a good chunk of the country, would you then allow for them to separate from the US thus further separating and breaking up of the US, going from the southern most border on up to Alaska, fracturing it further.

It is a tricky road and ultimately futile. The States can not just simply disavow being a part of the Union, nor can the federal government just let them break away. Even if they did, it would take years before such could happen or it would be a total disaster on both sides.

sorry if its been posted before in this thread......im a few threads deep and cant keep up.

Link

This makes me so angry to see people so against secession that they would want to get rid of their own brothers and sisters because of a difference in opinion.

reply to post by clay2 baraka


ur wrong with ur data, close to 75,000 people now and with how its been growing im guessing we we be at 100,000 at the end of the day

we the people

Originally posted by boncho
reply to post by GD21D

 

25,000 out of the population of Texas is a drop in the hat. I seriously doubt this a representation of the population there. Also willing to bet you will find more American flags in that state than many others.

Hell, you could easily find 25,000 people that believe a whole ton of nonsense on just about any subject.

Gameday, any major football stadium in the country, you get more than 25,000 united in the cause to beat the other team. Yawn. Stop paying attention to a bunch of whiners.