New petition on Whitehouse.gov: Strip the Citizenship from Everyone who Signed a Petition to Secede

reply to post by muse7


But there are many places they can go that are better? I think you need to realize that they aren't savages that your country has taken in and allowed to deport at will. It intrigues me you think that way.

To all of you who oppose this movement, it is you who does not belong here! If you side with the PTB, that means you stand against the very idea of this nation. You need to man up and take responsibility for yourself. Ween yourself from the safety nets. If you oppose the principles this nation was founded on, then put your name on a list and when this nation is truly free, the free will make sure you will not have to suffer the indignity of self responsibility!

Originally posted by muse7
I like that, let's see these fake secessionists put their money where their mouth is

I'm sure there are many right wing paradises where these nuts can go live! Where there are no social safety nets, no health care and where they can get into daily gunfights

There are many immigrants waiting to be part of this great union, we won't miss these crybabies

So you are in favor of political censorship? Nay, you are in favor of out casting political opposition? Regardless of their intentions, motives or desires; as misguided as they may be; your outright jubilation to enact complete censorship is quite fitting Muse. Democracy for you, tyranny for all.

It's good to see some true colors popping out in threads like this. Don't agree with me? Well go move to North Korea or something! When my side wins, you are dead!

Oh the humanity is astounding.

Go freedom, but only for those that agree with me! The rest of you can go to hell!

The reactionaries who are treating this as some true, valid drive to actually secede from the Union are really disappointing. I'm sure ATS has it's share of 12 yr olds but I really didn't expect this to be the issue to fire them up.

The odds of there being another civil war in this country, especially now are so low as to be almost impossible. We've done a really bang up job of re-inventing the history of the last one to the point where most people don't really understand why the last one was fought let alone comprehend the nature of our society at that time vs. today.

It took a huge, extremely divisive issue to create the events that led to our civil war. America was a different place then made up of different people. There were people alive to see the creation of the country still around to see the civil war take place and the population was still made up of immigrants and the first two generations of immigrants. The identity of being "American" and "American Only" did not exist then and the violent tyranny of various places in Europe was still a fresh, painful memory for quite a large number of the populace.

Regardless of attempts to state otherwise for various reasons the civil war was fought over slavery first and the encroachment of the federal government into state governments in ways that represented drastic, life changing impact second. People in positions requiring them to know better were far too willing to make sudden, passion based decisions such as wanting to abolish slavery overnight and damn the consequences to the lives of a large number of people. There was no plan to transition and had that change taken place outside of a war and the harsh realities of it to the people in the South that change could have thrown the entire country into an economic collapse. This is why you had people in the South who supported ending slavery but were willing to fight to protect their families from enforced poverty.

Yes, the Federal government did not make the ending of slavery an immediate "war goal" but people forget the entire reason for the secession was the issue of slavery. Lincoln had campaigned as a new Republican (the democrats were the pro slavery party of that time so he switched) and ran on a vast tour of speaking events where he gave impassioned pleas for the abolition of slavery in America. Everyone knew what his election meant and when he gained office without carrying a single "slave state" the reaction of those States was secession.

There is no issue recognized by the entire population of such large and moral consequence to make taking up arms against your fellow Americans right now a viable option. I don't know that even the application of more abuses of freedom by the Feds will create that atmosphere.

What these petitions really represent for most of the participants is making a statement to the Federal Govt and the President that people are extremely upset. Take your pick about what, there are numerous possibilities.

Unfortunately Obama will ignore that fact and will make this into a racial issue or a similar diversion, IMO.

reply to post by TKDRL




Yeah because they are being kicked out

They signed a petition saying they wish to leave the union.

I'm simply encouraging them to follow through and move to wherever they want.

I heard Somalia had a small government with no regulations. I'm sure they'll love it there

reply to post by ecoparity


If you are fed up with the government then come out and say it, instead of beating around the bush making empty threats to secede.

reply to post by muse7


Blah blah blah, just like a republican sheep will give you the suggestion of moving to cuba if you want communism. Same crap, different pile.

Originally posted by muse7
I heard Somalia had a small government with no regulations. I'm sure they'll love it there

Ah the extremist understanding of "small government"; as seen from the far left. Reduction of regulations and the review of regulations that are outdated or erroneous does not mean proponents of smaller government want a pure regulation free government (sure there are pockets that do, but they are ill-informed in my opinion, just as you are.)

In my opinion, if a state wishes to leave the union (funny how it is now a union; implying mutual understanding.....) they should do so only with a very high bar of public support. Sadly, the United States of America has shown its cards on how it feels about succession (regardless of how one feels about the Civil War or what it was fought for, the Federal Government made it clear that the tenets laid out in the Declaration of Independence were relative only to those who wrote it during the time they did.

In this matter a "petition" will not do anything. Heck even if fulfilled and the required amount of signatures are met, it only means that the White House "agrees" to look at the petition more.

So this "petition" (a farce in itself, along with the petition to secede) is calling for the quelling of political speech of those who are expressing their dislike of the current situation? Silence those who oppose and dislike the way things are going? Am I getting this right?

reply to post by ownbestenemy


I agree, these petitions will not accomplish anything. The only problem I have with this whole thing is people are beginning to assume that 25,000 signatures speak for the 25 million peoe living in Texas.

I hate to turn this into a democrat/republican thread, but I have a feeling that if Romney had been elected these petitions would not have been made.

Originally posted by ownbestenemy
So this "petition" (a farce in itself, along with the petition to secede) is calling for the quelling of political speech of those who are expressing their dislike of the current situation? Silence those who oppose and dislike the way things are going? Am I getting this right?

Nope, this petition is simply encouraging the people that want to secede to basically put their money where their mouth is.

Originally posted by muse7
reply to post by TDawgRex

 

25,000 signatures do not represent 25,000,000 people.

You realize that's the entire basis of our system of government right? That a fraction represents the whole.

Originally posted by muse7
reply to post by ownbestenemy

 

I agree, these petitions will not accomplish anything. The only problem I have with this whole thing is people are beginning to assume that 25,000 signatures speak for the 25 million peoe living in Texas.

I hate to turn this into a democrat/republican thread, but I have a feeling that if Romney had been elected these petitions would not have been made.

Probably so, but we can only assume. The notion of petitioning the White House is farce and tenuous at best. The Executive has no say in this other than levying the bully pulpit; in that case, the petitions are a direct 1st Amendment issue of petitioning their government.

To your statement about 25,000 not equaling 25,000,000; this is quite the statement. Since most laws enacted are derived from representative representation, they are but a fraction of the total population as is. There is nothing wrong with that. Most states provide this avenue to place questions on the ballot, why not succession?

Originally posted by eNumbra

Originally posted by muse7
reply to post by TDawgRex

 

25,000 signatures do not represent 25,000,000 people.

You realize that's the entire basis of our system of government right? That a fraction represents the whole.

yes of course, but the only difference is that these people were not elected to represent the state of Texas

Originally posted by muse7

Originally posted by eNumbra

Originally posted by muse7
reply to post by TDawgRex

 

25,000 signatures do not represent 25,000,000 people.

You realize that's the entire basis of our system of government right? That a fraction represents the whole.

yes of course, but the only difference is that these people were not elected to represent the state of Texas

Would your view on the matter be different if the petition was of a different subject? Does it not bother you that the White House is trying to take up the mantle of being the savior of the People by offering such petitions?

Originally posted by muse7
reply to post by ownbestenemy

 

I agree, these petitions will not accomplish anything. The only problem I have with this whole thing is people are beginning to assume that 25,000 signatures speak for the 25 million peoe living in Texas.

I hate to turn this into a democrat/republican thread, but I have a feeling that if Romney had been elected these petitions would not have been made.

I wholeheartedly disagree. Where you went wrong is when you threw in Rep. and Dem. That is the very reason this is going on. Not having a choice, a choice the people could believe in. The choice presented to us was no choice at all. The options were rammed down our throats with the idea of, "take it or leave it". A lot of Americans are choosing to leave it.

Secession again?
Are they nuts?

This is just another example of how religious fanatics get people behind them when they have a public platform paid for by religious fanatics to spout their anti-Islamic hatred.

reply to post by onecraftydude


I think you are in the wrong thread.......