being trained to lie and decieve is not healthy

Originally posted by MysticOfRadiance
being trained to lie and decieve is not healthy

Hey, Necros, Twitchy, Gadfly, Morgan... ya listenin'?

Originally posted by theron dunn

Originally posted by MysticOfRadiance
being trained to lie and decieve is not healthy

Hey, Necros, Twitchy, Gadfly, Morgan... ya listenin'?

i was talking about freemasonry, "being trained to lie and decieve is not healthy"


[edit on 9-11-2004 by MysticOfRadiance]

On what concrete proof do you base your argument that Masons are "trained to lie and deceive"?

At exactly what point in Masonry does this "training" occur? Have you witnessed this "training" in Lodge? When exactly was it? What is the name of your Lodge?

Are you a Mason? Have you experienced Msonic ritual firsthand? Or do you just like getting shot down for making silly, unfounded claims?

no need to prove to make the point, ltd602 would you agree lieing and deciept is not healthy, for anyone?.

[edit on 9-11-2004 by MysticOfRadiance]

Originally posted by MysticOfRadiance
no need to prove to make the point, ltd602 would you agree lieing and deciept is not healthy, for anyone?.

[edit on 9-11-2004 by MysticOfRadiance]

That's obvious. But why do you connect it with Masonry?

one example is masonry uses 'any' means to protect its secrets, this is understandable, but in using deceptive etc means you will be left with moral problems.

nearly everybody lies/decieves etc for one reason or another, and maybe there are big lies and little lies, but still this could result in moral problems, for the individual and many alike?.

Originally posted by MysticOfRadiance
one example is masonry uses 'any' means to protect its secrets, this is understandable, but in using deceptive etc means you will be left with moral problems.

nearly everybody lies/decieves etc for one reason or another, and maybe there are big lies and little lies, but still this could result in moral problems, for the individual and many alike?.

"Masonry will do anything to protect its secrets? Such as? have you witnessed any of this? What are your sources for this? Have you witnessed such a thing in Lodge?

The rest of your post consists of abstract generalizations.

If you are not a Mason, you do not, by default, have any basis to make such an argument. Although you are of course, perfectly free to make it.

ltd602, i am not a mason, ltd602 says (quote) "The rest of your post consists of abstract generalizations."

why is truth you agree on a abstract generalization?.

Look up Captain Morgan, the book he published then what happened to him. Speculation from outside is harmless, exposure from within is often fatal. You don't keep secrets for thousands of years by being nice guys.
His death launched the first and indeed only real anti-freemasonry movement in the US. The most recent anti-freemasonry movement was Germany circa late 1930's.
"It's a sin that somehow, light is changing to shadow, and casting a shroud over all we have known."
-Pink Floyd

i find masonry a intresting subject and can appreciate why people join masonry, if i complain because i think that there are potential grey areas involved in masonry, it can be argued either way, but is also probably good to be taken on board/reflected on as well?.

Originally posted by MysticOfRadiance
i find masonry a intresting subject and can appreciate why people join masonry, if i complain because i think that there are potential grey areas involved in masonry, it can be argued either way, but is also probably good to be taken on board/reflected on as well?.

A reasonable attitude. Can't argue with that. Thatt's why we're here . . . to discuss those grey areas, and whatever else, really.

[edit on 12-11-2004 by LTD602]

Originally posted by MysticOfRadiance
one example is masonry uses 'any' means to protect its secrets, this is understandable, but in using deceptive etc means you will be left with moral problems.

Really? ANY means? Would you like to list those? What masonry does to protect its secrets is not talk about them. What are YOU thinking of?

Nearly everybody lies/decieves etc for one reason or another, and maybe there are big lies and little lies, but still this could result in moral problems, for the individual and many alike?.

Of course, hence the statement that we are striving to be better men. No one has ever claimed masons are perfect. We try to follow masonic teachings, we strive to be honorable men, upright in our several stations before man and g-d... what you state is precisely why masons are enjoined to truth, justice, fortitude, prudence, temperence, and to circumscribe our passions and desires...

Mystic radiancer:

for ANYONE, including the few masonic critics, yes, it is wrong to lie. But since masons are enjoined against lying, and are NOT trained to lie, I do not see you have a point.

Moreover, NOT answering certain questions is NOT lying. My obligation requires that there are certain things I keep private, and I will not divulge them... but again, not answering is not the same as lying. to lie takes a positive act, that is, knowledgeof the truth and a deliberate falsification.

the whole Morgan thing is nonsense,a dn the "antimasonic" party died after just four years...

[edit on 11/12/04 by theron dunn]

Originally posted by theron dunn
Mystic radiancer:

for ANYONE, including the few masonic critics, yes, it is wrong to lie. But since masons are enjoined against lying, and are NOT trained to lie, I do not see you have a point.

Moreover, NOT answering certain questions is NOT lying. My obligation requires that there are certain things I keep private, and I will not divulge them... but again, not answering is not the same as lying. to lie takes a positive act, that is, knowledgeof the truth and a deliberate falsification.

the whole Morgan thing is nonsense,a dn the "antimasonic" party died after just four years...

[edit on 11/12/04 by theron dunn]

This is a clear and powerful truth, one that is foremost in the minds of all Masons.
-----------------------------------------

Originally posted by theron dunn

Of course, hence the statement that we are striving to be better men. No one has ever claimed masons are perfect. We try to follow masonic teachings, we strive to be honorable men, upright in our several stations before man and g-d... what you state is precisely why masons are enjoined to truth, justice, fortitude, prudence, temperence, and to circumscribe our passions and desires...

i think they are some good codes to live by.

[Is it Hindustan (INDIA) turning into Pakistan because all the UPA GOVERNMENT giving support to Muslim in the name of minority they don’t obey our law of our country they got their on laws does it make any sense for it they marry as much as possible
1 to 10 or give berth to children from 5 to 10 but they cant be stopped ?
In history they destroyed lacks of old temples in all over the India mainly the temple in kashi varanasi , somnath in Gujarat, present Tajmahal is shiv temple at Agra the whole Hindu culture has be changed due to their fanatic ideology they start their brain wash there new young one Childs and preach against all other religions in their mdarsa and Musjit that’s Y most of the Muslim turning into terrorist activities across the country ?

we just want A land to shrine Amaranth yatra for the stay of the pilgrimage purpose y the Muslim don’t agree for it we should not leave them so easily ?
always Hindus were given the bad name we ask from our country not from
Pakistan or Arab y these Muslims get aggravated so quickly ?

They should be throne out of our country that is the only solution