Teachers Flock to Northwestern University for 'Marxist Conference', page 5


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reply posted on 13-11-2012 @ 06:50 PM by UmbraSumus
reply to post by ANOK




Capitalism is an exploitative economic system based on property ownership.



I think the sad truth is that a lot of people accept this - and fantasize about one day being the one doing the exploiting.


reply posted on 13-11-2012 @ 07:10 PM by John_Rodger_Cornman
reply to post by PsykoOps


They threw him out of a journalist meeting that he was invited to for no reason.


reply posted on 13-11-2012 @ 07:12 PM by John_Rodger_Cornman
Originally posted by PsykoOps
reply to post by mark1167


Of course it doesn't work... or you could ask scandinavians...



Scandinavians are not marxist.

Nice try.

What about China,Cuba and the USSR.



reply posted on 13-11-2012 @ 07:15 PM by John_Rodger_Cornman
reply to post by ANOK


What do you think about stateless socialism?

Is it not better than statist socialism(marxist socialism).


reply posted on 13-11-2012 @ 08:26 PM by TheAngryFarm
reply to post by Ghost375


The world would in fact be better off without creationists and marxists. They both believe in insane ideas that have no place in public policy.


reply posted on 14-11-2012 @ 12:19 AM by xuenchen
reply to post by ANOK


Maybe some quotes from the "Masterpiece" books themselves might help.

Where in "the books" are the "transitions" explained ?

And how do the "transitions" begin ?


reply posted on 14-11-2012 @ 12:46 AM by ANOK
Originally posted by John_Rodger_Cornman
reply to post by ANOK


What do you think about stateless socialism?

Is it not better than statist socialism(marxist socialism).


I am not a Marxist, why do people keep thinking that?

Yes stateless socialism is the ideal. Marxism is not actually state-socialism either though. The Marxist state was a temporary period of a worker ran state, which is supposed to eventually dissolve once industry is moved from capitalist to socialist.

The goal of all the socialist movements, from Marxism to Anarchism, was the same thing, 'free association'.
The difference is in the method to achieve that goal, Marxism being a political path, Anarchism being a direct action path.

What is important is the final goal, worker ownership. We don't need to follow Marx, or anyone, to achieve that gaol. But people want to argue against that based on misinterpretations and lies, so I end up having to explain Marx in order to explain what socialism/communism is. You can't really discuss socialism without bringing up Marx, and other socialists.

In the anarchist, Marxist and socialist sense, free association (also called free association of producers or, as Marx often called it, community of freely associated individuals) is a kind of relation between individuals where there is no state, social class or authority, in a society that has abolished the private property of means of production. Once private property is abolished, individuals are no longer deprived of access to means of production so they can freely associate themselves (without social constraint) to produce and reproduce their own conditions of existence and fulfill their needs and desires.


Free association (communism and anarchism)


reply posted on 14-11-2012 @ 12:53 AM by ANOK
Originally posted by xuenchen
reply to post by ANOK


Maybe some quotes from the "Masterpiece" books themselves might help.

Where in "the books" are the "transitions" explained ?

And how do the "transitions" begin ?


You mean the 'transition period'. Why do want me to keep explaining Marx? We were discusing worker ownership I thought? You can buy the book yourself and find out all about it mate, and stop trying to pretend you know anything about it. Go read it, and then you come back and tell me I was right.

I am not a supporter of the Marxist transition period, I just explained what it was, and why people are confused.
So stop trying to get me to espouse Marxism.

“Between capitalist and communist society lies the period of the revolutionary transformation of the one into the other. There corresponds to this also a political transition period in which the state can be nothing but the revolutionary dictatorship of the proletariat” K. Marx, From "Critique of the Gotha Program", 1875.

As I said the Commie Festo is not an explanation of communism. I even quoted what it says on the cover of my copy, did you read that? Do you just simply dismiss anything that doesn't fit your preconceived assumptions?

BTW "Critique of the Gotha Program" Is the book where Marx talks about what communism could look like. It's only 23 pages long, but is also filled with letters from people to Marx who failed to understand those 23 pages. Marx was even misunderstood by most people in his own lifetime, let alone a hundred odd years later.

edit on 11/14/2012 by ANOK because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 14-11-2012 @ 01:02 AM by ANOK
reply to post by Dr Expired


But to understand the reality you have to understand these terms imo. If people don't understand what socialism is then they will simply keep believing what the state says it is. That makes you just as much a slave as working for the man.

An educated working class is a real threat to the 'man', that is why society has been conditioned to dismiss socialism and support capitalism, against their best interest.
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