posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 05:05 AM
Originally posted by chinaski77
reply to post by ANOK
Yes and any proceeds would go back into public services where it is needed. I don't have a problem with the Denmark model the quote describes, as I
didn't with the Swedish model of the 70s. While I personally have socialist ideals, I don't think the term is constant; it is 'socialisms'.
Liberalists sit on the fence and will not commit, I think that is the practical difference, but to be realistic we cannot believe that the capitalist
world will change - it is too reliant upon the current system; all we can hope for are more socialistic policies within capitalism, hence my previous
Again though you mean liberal policies. What are socialist policies?
Socialism is the workers ownership of the means of production, as capitalism is the private ownership of the means of production. Other than that any
so called "socialist policies" are polices of the organization, not of socialism. For example Marxism has it's own ideology, but that doesn't
make that socialist ideology just because Marxism is a socialist movement. Capitalism is still the private ownership of the means of production
regardless of anything else anyone decides to attach to it's meaning.
Point is what is important is the original definition of the term, not what has been attached to it over the decades.
The original definition of capitalism, for example, by Louis Blanc was, "The appropriation of capital by some to the exclusion of others."
Proudhon defined it as, "Economic and social regime in which capital, the source of income, does not generally belong to those who make it work
through their labour." Marx refined the definition to "The private ownership of the means of production". A system whereby the private owner
hires labour, and makes their living from the 'surplus value' created by paying the worker for less than they produce. All the definitions fit, but
Marx defined it more distinctly.
One way to prove this is by looking at Anarchism. Anarchists were socialists, obviously not pro-government.
"Anarchism is stateless socialism" Mikhail Bakunin. Marxism was considered state-socialism by the anarchists, even though the Marxist state was
supposed to be temporary, and the final goal a stateless society. The only way we can have a stateless society is with worker ownership.