So who determined that Majestic 12 is fake?

I know many threads exist about Majestic 12, but I'm wondering if anybody noticed this contradiction on the FBI website?

In one place on the FBI website they say that Air Force asked FBI to look into Majestic 12 and the FBI determined that it's fake.

FBI and UFOs: Flying Flapjacks

A July 1950 FBI statement said that “the jurisdiction and responsibility for investigating flying saucers have been assumed by the United States Air Force. Information received in this matter is immediately turned over to the Air Force, and the FBI does not attempt to investigate these reports or evaluate the information furnished.” From this point, the FBI’s cases on UFOs dropped off dramatically. Neither the public nor the Air Force sought our expertise as they had during the first few years of the Cold War. There were a few exceptions. In 1977, for example, the Air Force informed us of the end of their “Project Blue Book” investigation of UFO reports. And in 1988, we were asked to look into the release of what appeared to be a 1952 classified document concerning a UFO-related top secret government group called “Majestic 12”—we determined that the document was a fake.

Here they say that Air Force determined that it's fake.

FBI Records: The Vault

Majestic 12 In 1988, two FBI offices received similar versions of a memo titled “Operation Majestic-12…” claiming to be highly classified government document. The memo appeared to be a briefing for newly-elected President Eisenhower on a secret committee created to exploit a recovery of an extra-terrestrial aircraft and cover-up this work from public examination. An Air Force investigation determined the document to be a fake.

Probably just a mistake right?

Internal investigations don't solve anything. I really don't know how these government alphabet agencies are allowed to investigate each other, or anything seeing how they run things.

Of course a federal agency will find no evidence while investigating another federal agency. Any crimes committed would basically be like finding dirt on your boss. Your boss isn't going to send you on an errand if the bread crumbs lead back to him.

Some of the MJ 12 documents have been examined by an forensic linguistics expert and the ones being examined determined to be fake. Doesn't mean all of them are, but the ones examined seem to be. I have no opinion on the validity of the examination, but since you asked, I thought I post it.

You can check the report of the examination here:

MJ-12 Forensic Linguistics Report

The PDF in nv4711's link is a good resource. Dr. Friedman has answered all your questions in great detail, but you have to buy his books.

The main thing you have to keep in mind is that the FBI has no reason or incentive to tell us citizens the unvarnished truth. Sometimes their lies are inconsistent....

Who? Not anyone we can trust, thats for sure. Same with all the other issues. Though you'll find some on here that thing their humble little opinions should debunk issues and conspiracies left right and center, they are also not the authority. And the Mahatma Ghandi said something I always liked: Even if you are a minority of 1, the truth is still the truth.

I bet they don't call themselves that any more however.

More cover-ups, if anything.

And even if some documents do get debunked, it doesn't mean that the incidents reported/witnessed never took place. Lies, upon more lies.

So far what I'm getting is that the document has been proven to be a fake but the FBI is still lying? Not that I believe the FBI but I'm confused is Majestic 12 a hoax or no?

Originally posted by maxella1
So far what I'm getting is that the document has been proven to be a fake but the FBI is still lying? Not that I believe the FBI but I'm confused is Majestic 12 a hoax or no?

IMO - - its one of those conspiracies that makes sense to me.

I believe 100% that off-planet beings have been in contact with certain humans.

One thing that made me laugh about that FBI statement that it was a fake, is that the FBI never had or will have the clearance to see those top secret documents in the first place.

Originally posted by maxella1
So far what I'm getting is that the document has been proven to be a fake but the FBI is still lying? Not that I believe the FBI but I'm confused is Majestic 12 a hoax or no?

I'm not speaking for anyone else here, but let me clarify what I was getting at. According to Stanton Friedman, who has dedicated many years to the MJ-12 documents, SOME of the material is faked in an attempt at disinformation to make the other materials look faked. That is, after all, the purpose of disinformation: To obscure the truth in such a way that you don't know what to believe.

You can find some of his investigative work on his site; but to get the full effect of what he's saying you have to read his books on the subject. I said earlier that you need to buy the books. But I suppose some of them are available at local libraries.

In any event, there is no one simple answer to your question. It's a very complex subject, with a lot of detractors and a lot of obfuscation and a lot of points of view. The one thing you can be sure of is that the FBI is not in the business of telling us the truth; they are in the business of justifying their existence and making themselves look like the big hero....

This is just my uneducated opinion, but the FBI and the Air Force are only reporters of activity and convenient scapegoats.

We should really be looking at the Navy and the Office of Naval Intelligence.....they know something.

reply to post by Ex_CT2

The one thing you can be sure of is that the FBI is not in the business of telling us the truth; only in the business of justifying their existence and making themselves look like the big hero....

Can't even make sure they use the same story on their own website. Pretty funny.

I'm intrigued now so I'll read the book.

Thanks

Originally posted by maxella1
reply to post by Ex_CT2

 

The one thing you can be sure of is that the FBI is not in the business of telling us the truth; only in the business of justifying their existence and making themselves look like the big hero....

Can't even make sure they use the same story on their own website. Pretty funny.

I'm intrigued now so I'll read the book.

Thanks

Good. I think this is the one you're looking for:

stantonfriedman.com

TOP SECRET/MAJIC by Stanton Friedman

Includes new 5000-word afterword demolishing MJ-12 attacks and showing some documents are frauds. 10 page bibliography. 2nd edition, autographed by Stanton Friedman. 2005, 296 p.

reply to post by Ex_CT2


Thank you

I seem to recall that a favorite argument against the MJ-12 documents is that President Truman’s signature is too perfect a match for an example found on a document known to be legit, citing the norm of variations in genuine signatures of the same person. But what that argument fails to take into account is use of an autopen, which is actually routine practice of U.S. presidents. The signature produced by such a device looks as though it was written by hand, and it is the legal signature of the person. The only thing strange about it is lack of minor variations from one sample to another, raising possible suspicion of forgery if not taking the use of such a machine by the signatory into account.

Wikipedia—Autopen

Actually, despite the wording of the Wikipedia article, the word Autopen is a registered trademark of the manufacturer, who refers to its products generically as signature-signing machines.

Originally posted by maxella1
I know many threads exist about Majestic 12, but I'm wondering if anybody noticed this contradiction on the FBI website?

In one place on the FBI website they say that Air Force asked FBI to look into Majestic 12 and the FBI determined that it's fake.
snip

UFOlogy is riddled with holes bored by charlatans and get-rich-quick authors who see the gullible as their path to riches. The gullible fill this forum with threads garnered from these authors questionable research and claims. Don't let the name Klass stop you from enjoying the fruits of his research.

Skeptical Inquirer
The New Bogus Majestic-12 Documents
Special Report
Philip J. Klass
Volume 24.3, May / June 2000

“Majestic Twelve"-better known as “MJ-12"-first achieved international fame in the world of UFOlogy in mid-1987. It was then that UFOlogist William L. Moore and two associates made public three (purportedly) “Top Secret” documents which indicated that President Harry Truman had created a super-secret MJ-12 group forty years earlier to deal with extraterrestrial (ET) visitors. Truman’s (alleged) action was prompted by an alleged crashed-ET craft that had been covertly recovered near Roswell in mid-1947.

The Roswell crashed-saucer claim had been the centerpiece of a book published seven years earlier (1980) which Moore had coauthored with Charles Berlitz. (Berlitz previously authored a book describing the “mysterious dangers” of the Bermuda Triangle.)

Recently, a large batch of additional “Top Secret Majestic Documents” have emerged, provided by another UFOlogist named Tim Cooper, who claims he obtained them from several covert sources. Their authenticity has been endorsed by Robert Wood, a respected, retired McDonnell Douglas scientist and his son Ryan. (Wood is a member of the nine-person Executive Council of Peter Sturrock’s Society for Scientific Exploration.) Based on the Woods’ assessment, wealthy Silicon Valley software expert Joe Firmage, who recently revealed his conviction that some UFOs are extraterrestrial visitors, also endorsed Cooper’s documents in mid-1999.

However, on November 25 the International Space Sciences Organization (ISSO), which Firmage recently created to pursue his UFO interests, issued a statement that “ongoing research indicates that many, possibly all, the so-called MJ-12 UFO documents were officially fabricated as instruments of U.S. covert psychological warfare . . .” (emphasis added). This is ridiculous! The new Cooper documents, like their 1987 predecessors, are so riddled with flaws that they could never fool Soviet or Chinese intelligence experts. Even some long-time pro-UFOlogists have denounced them as obvious counterfeits.

One of the original MJ-12 documents released by Moore and his two partners (UFO lecturer Stanton Friedman and TV producer Jaime Shandera) purported to be a memo from President Truman to Defense Secretary James Forrestal, dated September 24, 1947, which authorized the creation of the MJ-12 group. My investigation revealed that the Truman signature was a pasted-on photocopy of a genuine signature-including accidental scratch marks-from a memo that Truman wrote to Vannevar Bush on October 1, 1947 (see “New evidence of MJ-12 hoax,” SI 14[2], Winter 1990).

[The article continues at: www.csicop.org... ]

Also do a Google search for "majestic 12 documents hoax" and you'll get About 455,000 results, though not all of them about the hoax. Change the search terms and you'll get more or less results.

Originally posted by maxella1
I know many threads exist about Majestic 12, but I'm wondering if anybody noticed this contradiction on the FBI website?

In one place on the FBI website they say that Air Force asked FBI to look into Majestic 12 and the FBI determined that it's fake.

...

Here they say that Air Force determined that it's fake.

Hi maxella1,

The FBI documents indicate that the FBI investigation involved asking the DOD and Air Force (Office of Special Investigations) about the some of the MJ-12 documents and that that the Office of Special Investigations responded on 30 November 1988 that those documents were "fabricated ... The document is completely bogus".

Originally posted by IsaacKoi

Originally posted by maxella1
I know many threads exist about Majestic 12, but I'm wondering if anybody noticed this contradiction on the FBI website?

In one place on the FBI website they say that Air Force asked FBI to look into Majestic 12 and the FBI determined that it's fake.

...

Here they say that Air Force determined that it's fake.

Hi maxella1,

The FBI documents indicate that the FBI investigation involved asking the DOD and Air Force (Office of Special Investigations) about the some of the MJ-12 documents and that that the Office of Special Investigations responded on 30 November 1988 that those documents were "fabricated ... The document is completely bogus".

When "highly classified" documents are investigated by parties who themselves actually hold classified documents for the government and practice secrecy for their government on so many levels as this very thing is their job to do so then i dare safely say that it is totally ridiculous to claim that these documents are as you say "bogus" just because these government bodies told you so.

They would be the least trustworthy investigative entities in the world in this particular case , to say the least.

What would you truly expect from them ,that they would say "hey we got these top secret documents from our government for who created this agency and whom we work for that leaked and you know what , they are all real people ! the government has been keeping incredible things secret from you" I suspect all agencies involved would be a few divisions lighter in a matter of hours.

I doubt you will convince many people based on what you just said.

Originally posted by Rubic0n
I doubt you will convince many people based on what you just said.

Where was I trying to convince anyone of anything??? I said what the FBI documents indicated in terms of the FBI investigation and the communication from the US Air Force. I didn't say that the conclusion reached by the FBI was valid.

In fact, I think my summary of the FBI documents shows that the FBI investigation was pretty limited and the FBI documents do not indicate what investigation (if any) was done by the US Air Force before it stated to the FBI that the MJ-12 documents were bogus.

Originally posted by IsaacKoi

Originally posted by Rubic0n
I doubt you will convince many people based on what you just said.

Where was I trying to convince anyone of anything??? I said what the FBI documents indicated in terms of the FBI investigation and the communication from the US Air Force. I didn't say that the conclusion reached by the FBI was valid.

In fact, I think my summary of the FBI documents show that the FBI investigation was pretty limited and the FBI documents do not indicate what investigation (if any) was done by the US Air Force before it stated to the FBI that the MJ-12 documents were bogus.

edit on 13-11-2012 by IsaacKoi because: (no reason given)

dont get me wrong here, im not looking for a fight. I now re-read your post several times to see if i was wrong in my response but i cannot say i was with your post being as it is.

That which you just said in your second post was not said or made clear in anyway in your first response. All you did was mention that the other parties were involved and concluded it with their claim of it being bogus, nothing more after that. You did not include anything else but the quote of them being "bogus" at the conclusion of your post.


Peace V