What's wrong with being chipped?

Originally posted by foodstamp

Rival, all BS aside here a realistic scenario for the implementation of the RFID chip.

Except - it's not.

You call up Pizza Hut and order a pizza. Pay for it VIA chip. Next month you health insurance premium is doubled six months because they saw your pizza purchase and have now decided you pose a higher risk for heart attack. So in order too make you stop eating pizza, they double your insurance for six months.

Only, there's not much point using a chip to pay for pizza over the phone. You could, I suppose. However, whether you pay for it "via chip" or with a credit card, or hell, even with cash, if "they" want to know you ate a pizza, it's easy as pie. This isn't happening, though. So the addition of an implanted serial number isn't really going to change that one. If they want to do it, they would anyway, the data's there for the using.

So, now, let's say your having financial problems cause your health insurance doubled. So you don't pay your car insurance, again VIA your chip.

And again, that info is stored in the insurance company's computer system. If "They" want to do this, all they have to do is notify the cops to pick you up.

So, next week you get onto the highway to go to work and your car chip (which works in concert with your RFID chip) now triggers a police response because your RFID chip says you missed your car ins payment 7 days ago and you should not be driving.

Only your RFID chip doesn't have that info. And it doesn't take action on its own because...it's a serial number that doesn't even do THAT unless it's interrogated.

So now the police are behind you within a mile of you getting on the highway that now taxes you per mile Via your car and RFID chip instantly every time you access an on ramp. So anyway, there behind you. And they cut off your car/RFID chip so you stall and pull over. Now, the police arrest you, book you, and seize all monies on your RFID chip instantly because you forfeited your right to use the chip because you committed a misdemeanor.

Only, your car doesn't have RFID. And YOUR RFID can't be interrogated by the road. And since cars don't have RFID, and since the function of RFID isn't to cut off cars, that won't happen either. Not all radio devices are RFID, even if you don't like them. And if the law wanted to "seize all monies instantly" they could do that with your bank account and cards NOW, but they don't, because it's not lawful.

Do you get the picture? It's ALL about government and is business control.

None of these things are related to or specific to RFID, most would require massive Hitlerian legal overhaul to implement, and if it's that bad, well, it won't matter if you have an implant serial number or not, they will be able to do it far more easily in other ways.

Originally posted by Bedlam
Facial or iris recognition will start rolling out soon, and the whole implant thing's moot, at least until people figure out that they can wear scleral lenses with iris prints on and face appliances.

Obscuring your biometrics is not the point at all, its about giving your biometrics to your government to begin with. You can dig an implanted chip out from your skin with little more then an exacto blade and a bit of pressure, but you're never getting your biometrics back out of the governments new database system.

Originally posted by Bedlam
in which are described what are known as tefillin. A purpose of tefillin is to demonstrate you carry God's word in your deeds and thoughts. The mark would then more likely consist of your willing vow to do the work of the anti-Christ than any physical mark or little gold star on your drivers' license.

That “little gold star on your drivers license” means more than you are giving it credit for.
Its demonstration of your willingness to surrender your rights, in order to prove your citizenship in a worldly system (the new roman empire and final beast), so that you may receive protection and security from your government. You are not supposed to be looking to your government for either your physical protection or fulfillment of your needs, you are supposed to look to God for these things. By accepting that “little star” you are signaling your willingness to put your faith in your government over your God, and are thereby making a god out of the government.

You should look into the meaning of being a Roman Citizen, and what that “rights” that conveyed, as well as why God had issue with the Roman Empire, to better understand.

reply to post by rival


We were not born automatons. We are born human and of flesh with our free will intact. Born with a soul inside that free will. To be chipped is to have given away all of this and more. Your freedom, your free will and your soul.

Is there anything natural about that? It is quite the reverse and the cost of which you can't possibly imagine because it is eternity lost.

reply to post by Bedlam


In a situation where you are using those things for every day life, I think it is naive to think that there wouldn't be a significant amount of radiation going on.

Thieves are able to target credit cards and the like because of RFID chips inside them, so please do not tell me that there is no risk involved in having one of those things implanted inside me as far as identity theft goes.

Also, glass and hard plastic, huh? Didn't know that, but it actually makes it worse. Nothing like having glass and a petroleum by product inside me. Sounds like a great idea.

Frankly, those chips just seem a little too much like how they tag cattle for comfort. I'm sorry that not wanting to be tagged like an animal offends people, but that's how I feel. And I think it's perfectly reasonable to wonder why we need a chip when we already have the technology to be able to use things like fingerprints and iris scans.

Originally posted by defcon5
Obscuring your biometrics is not the point at all, its about giving your biometrics to your government to begin with. You can dig an implanted chip out from your skin with little more then an exacto blade and a bit of pressure, but you're never getting your biometrics back out of the governments new database system.

If the government really wants your biometrics, they'll have them, at least on a case by case basis.

All they'll have to do is make it mandatory for using the 'net or having a drivers' license and 99% of people will readily give them up.

But if you want the biometrics just for monitoring purposes, you could rig ATMs to collect that for you. Hell, the banks will even bear part of the costs. A nice facial parameters and iris scan for free. Stand in front of the ATM, citizen, and identify yourself by entering your PIN. Ignore the little opening...

You should look into the meaning of being a Roman Citizen, and what that “rights” that conveyed, as well as why God had issue with the Roman Empire, to better understand.

Of course, speaking of Romans, you've always got Romans 13 to deal with, you scofflaw:

Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.

For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.

Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

Originally posted by Egyptia
We were not born automatons. We are born human and of flesh with our free will intact. Born with a soul inside that free will. To be chipped is to have given away all of this and more. Your freedom, your free will and your soul.

Why do you think a serial number implant will turn you into an automaton? Would you think the same thing of a tattoo?

Originally posted by AnIntellectualRedneck
reply to post by Bedlam

 

In a situation where you are using those things for every day life, I think it is naive to think that there wouldn't be a significant amount of radiation going on.

They're not radioactive. What sort of radiation do you envision would be going on?

Thieves are able to target credit cards and the like because of RFID chips inside them, so please do not tell me that there is no risk involved in having one of those things implanted inside me as far as identity theft goes.

If someone steals your wallet, can they get your money from an ATM? Or is there another component involved to verify the wielder of the card is you? Hmm. What might that be. Hmm.

Also, glass and hard plastic, huh? Didn't know that, but it actually makes it worse. Nothing like having glass and a petroleum by product inside me. Sounds like a great idea.

How are you with pacemakers and insulin pumps? They're not made out of unicorn poots.

And I think it's perfectly reasonable to wonder why we need a chip when we already have the technology to be able to use things like fingerprints and iris scans.

Oh, I'm sure that biometrics will be used instead of a widescale deployment of implants. It'll be the same thing, only less overtly beasty.

Speaking of which, of course, it'll easily be in the scope of a large corporation to snag your iris prints, much less a government. One set of scleral lenses, and I become YOU, at least as far as the biometrics know. Eventually that would trickle down.

reply to post by rival


To start with the EMF pulses that the current RFID chips cause cancer.
Second, why would you want to be tracked like a unit of livestock.
If you don't think the criminals are two steps ahead of the government you are wrong. Do you not think a pedophile will use the tracking information to establish a pattern of how a child walks home?
It is a stepped up version of a SSN and check the downside to having one of those there are pages and pages on that here on this board alone.

Originally posted by rival
What's the downside to having a personally implanted RFID chip?

No need to carry ID

So what's the downside?

edit on 12-11-2012 by rival because: (no reason given)

The downside is implicit in the thing you quote as a positive.

There should be no 'need' to carry ID at all unless you want to. If you have it implanted the choice is removed.

A society with the mandatory cataloguing of its people with implanted tags can not pretend its a free one. National ID cards are a bad enough idea.

We used to laugh at the Nazis and Soviets with their 'Show me you papers' culture. People seriously contemplate a society they can read your 'papers' from across the street?

reply to post by Bedlam


In conjunction with a Universal ID number and RFID implantation everything is automated for the Insurance companies and whomever else has that has the money to do so. Your going to get your RFID chip. I think we all agree with that. Just remember what I said.... You'll see... I won't argue assumptions with you..

Originally posted by VforVendettea
reply to post by rival

 

To start with the EMF pulses that the current RFID chips cause cancer.

Not at all. It's not even a radio wave, just a fluctuating magnetic field.

Second, why would you want to be tracked like a unit of livestock.
If you don't think the criminals are two steps ahead of the government you are wrong. Do you not think a pedophile will use the tracking information to establish a pattern of how a child walks home?

You won't be doing any 'tracking' like that with an implant.

Originally posted by foodstamp
reply to post by Bedlam

 

In conjunction with a Universal ID number and RFID implantation everything is automated for the Insurance companies and whomever else has that has the money to do so. Your going to get your RFID chip. I think we all agree with that. Just remember what I said.... You'll see... I won't argue assumptions with you..

So, when the implants don't happen and everything's done with biometrics, are you gonna gouge out your eyes and whack off an ear like vanGogh?

I guess in a literal sense, I DO have an RFID chip - two of them actually - one around my neck in my ID at the customer site and another in a butt-bumper in my wallet. Nope, three, one's on my keychain. I have to have them to get into my place of business or the customer's site.

Sort of handy, actually, if my hands are full, we have an interrogator at butt height, I can half-turn and butt-bump the reader and the outside door on the squeeze chute will open. That gets you in out of the weather, although you've still got to enter a PIN AND use a key, or be identified by camera if someone's already there to get out of the chute. It's sort of tiresome to be the first guy there in the morning if we're not working shifts.

Originally posted by Bedlam
All they'll have to do is make it mandatory for using the 'net or having a drivers' license and 99% of people will readily give them up.

No offense, but this is exactly what I was talking about above...
This is happening as we speak. In order to get a US Drivers license or ID card, in all states except LA, right now you have to give up your biometric photo in ICAO format. This goes into a database that is internationally usable, and is in the same format as the E-passport. It is a full tracking ID through the use of facial recognition. The only way to avoid this is to refuse a drivers license and ID card. Even the those who have refused ID's for religious reasons over the years, such as the Mennonite and Amish, are being forced to receive these ID's:
Mennonites leaving Missouri over photo requirement
Yet the government is still refusing to accept that this new ID is religiously discriminatory.

Even states that have passed laws against the Real ID act, are still secretly complying with it as a matter of DMV policy:
How close is Oklahoma to Real ID? Much, Much Closer Than It Ought To Be.
Obviously our puppet masters want this, and are doing everything in their power to make sure we have to get it:

The only thing is that no chip is going to be required. They know that no one will accept a chip, so they are doing the same thing with your drivers license/ID card.

I have personally refused mine so far, and its been over a year since I have driven. I have even been denied medical treatment, and prescription medication for not having an ID. Its getting more and more difficult to get by without one... Of course that is exactly what it says will happen with the 'Mark', culminating in those who refuse it being unable to hold the rights that are due to them as citizens of this country, and eventually becoming outlaws...

Originally posted by Bedlam
Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

This world is ruled by Satan:

2 Corinthians 4:4

4 In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Originally posted by Bedlam
For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

Yet, the Bible explains to us that in the “end times” there will be one last world superpower government who will start off as a Christian country but will become the biggest enemy of God in history. That last country will:

Revelation 13:
13 And it performed great signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to the earth in full view of the people. 14 Because of the signs it was given power to perform on behalf of the first beast, it deceived the inhabitants of the earth. It ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived. 15 The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. 16 It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, 17 so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name.

Originally posted by Bedlam

Originally posted by foodstamp
reply to post by Bedlam

 

In conjunction with a Universal ID number and RFID implantation everything is automated for the Insurance companies and whomever else has that has the money to do so. Your going to get your RFID chip. I think we all agree with that. Just remember what I said.... You'll see... I won't argue assumptions with you..

So, when the implants don't happen and everything's done with biometrics, are you gonna gouge out your eyes and whack off an ear like vanGogh?

I guess in a literal sense, I DO have an RFID chip - two of them actually - one around my neck in my ID at the customer site and another in a butt-bumper in my wallet. Nope, three, one's on my keychain. I have to have them to get into my place of business or the customer's site.

Sort of handy, actually, if my hands are full, we have an interrogator at butt height, I can half-turn and butt-bump the reader and the outside door on the squeeze chute will open. That gets you in out of the weather, although you've still got to enter a PIN AND use a key, or be identified by camera if someone's already there to get out of the chute. It's sort of tiresome to be the first guy there in the morning if we're not working shifts.

I think the general subject here is that privacy and citizen sovereignty will be further eroded here with RFID implementation. If I'm mistaken then forgive me. your arguing logistics, something that if I argue back, would be a never ending argument based on assumptions on both sides. But I will say. If you think that RFID will NOT bring about MAJOR privacy erosions then I think you are nieve to what's going on around you. And have been for sometime, that is, if you've been on this planet for 30+ years or so.

RFID Only serves the purpose of small convenience for it's users and MAJOR control for it's controllers. Otherwise the technology wouldn't be pushed in the first place. Someone has to profit there buddy, It's not there because it serves mankind.

Originally posted by defcon5
No offense, but this is exactly what I was talking about above...

Actually, I'm not disagreeing with you on the gubmint's intent.

I'm not worried about RFID per se because it's unwieldy and provokes a kneejerk response, no one's ever going to implement it. It's way easier to get people to go with biometrics.

What I'm not so sure about is that even this is "the mark of the beast". My take on it is that you're going to have to overtly embrace the antichrist in a heads up sort of fashion, not buy a can of beans with a barcode or have an SSN.

Originally posted by foodstamp

But I will say. If you think that RFID will NOT bring about MAJOR privacy erosions then I think you are nieve to what's going on around you. And have been for sometime, that is, if you've been on this planet for 30+ years or so.

I see it as a technology that was superseded before it was implemented. While most of the posters on the thread are all worried about a minor boogeyman in the form of a chip implant, they're rolling out biometrics based on gait, frame, face structure and iris print.

Heck, on top of which there's a really big distributed computer network that already has a good handle on what your voice sounds like. I would not have believed how good it is at listening to a conversation and identifying people had I not seen it. Still sort of heavy on the computation, but that's why you need really huge new digital signal processor systems, I suppose.

The problem with being chipped by the government, is that it interferes with the chip the aliens installed in me.
the way i see it (first come first serve)

I've actually thought about getting a web site called something like "beastmark enterprises.com" and selling do it yourself chipping kits.

I bet someone would buy it. Especially if you sold it to the body mod/tat crowd as a way of emphasizing their individuality and free spirit. Nothing provokes a herd response like telling the cattle how unique they are, I bet.

Originally posted by Bedlam

Originally posted by foodstamp

But I will say. If you think that RFID will NOT bring about MAJOR privacy erosions then I think you are nieve to what's going on around you. And have been for sometime, that is, if you've been on this planet for 30+ years or so.

I see it as a technology that was superseded before it was implemented. While most of the posters on the thread are all worried about a minor boogeyman in the form of a chip implant, they're rolling out biometrics based on gait, frame, face structure and iris print.

Heck, on top of which there's a really big distributed computer network that already has a good handle on what your voice sounds like. I would not have believed how good it is at listening to a conversation and identifying people had I not seen it. Still sort of heavy on the computation, but that's why you need really huge new digital signal processor systems, I suppose.

I would have to agree with you 100%. I would have to say it's rather silly to be worried about taking a "Mark Of the Beat" when, if you think about it, the Bible never described a chip as a mark of the beat. If you think about it metaphorically, I would assume it means something along the line of following sin as your way of life. Not that I'm a Christian by any means, but, even if the "prophecy" were to be taken literally, it in no way implies and microchip.

I think in the end it is going to matter. You are going to have two choices. One choice is to choose to have money and stuff. With this choice, you need a chip. You will not be able to have money and stuff, that is material possessions either to buy or to sale. If you are worried about having material possessions then you will choose stuff and the chip. However, there is another way, the spiritual way, that is to give up thinking that money and material possessions are important at all. There is a whole other reality that doesn't even involve having to work in order to get stuff.

If you are worried about a material existance you will not be able to even understand or contemplate anything else. It just will not make sense to you. I tried talking about this to people who are materialistic and they simply do not get it. They can't understand life without working, without earning something, without having something to take pride in. They view the whole point of life as getting something to show for it. They don't think there is a point unless they can have something and hopefully something more, or at least the same or comparable to their neighbors. Everything evolves having something to show, something material. Without that life is not worth living.

I mean, literally, there are people in my own family who judge me as just a bum or worthless because I make very little money and have very little stuff. I could be very happy if they'd lay off. I want to have knowledge and grow spiritually and I want to care less about the material world. Just look at the shape it is in!


I believe that the Kingdom of Heaven is real, and that is already out there or in there or around there. It is another diminsion and it doesn't have to "come" really. It is already there. I mean really, I've read between the lines. If you really read the Bible and you read about the Kingdom, read between the lines a bit and it seems like there is a mystery there. The secret is it isn't far away off in the future or something. It is around but we just can't see into it. And for sure you will not see the Kingdom of Heaven if all you can see is your Ipad or your car or your house or anything that is material that you hold dear.

While everyone is looking at their stuff, perhaps a few people will actually see into the Kingdom of Heaven and this is what the Rapture will be. They'll just see it and other people won't because they are too materialistic to see it. Even if some people did see it, would they go? I mean really, if a door appeared and you saw Heaven, would you go right then knowing you couldn't take a thing with you and people would wonder where you went?