The Republican base was so wrong about Romney, and that's just the tip of the iceberg...

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posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 09:59 AM
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First watch this



If you don't want to watch the whole thing, start at 11:15.

David Frum states that the Republican party has no leaders, and is a party of followers. He further states that the right in America has been lied to by the right-wing entertainment industry (by everyone from blogs to Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck to Fox News), who have made the base of the party impossible to deal with, as they don't live in reality, but in a paranoid fantasy. Frum calls this decision to push paranoid, delusional lies a "business model, not a campaign strategy".

In other words, all of those birthers, and people that think Obama is a Marxist or a Communist (without knowing what those works mean) and anyone else that's been convinced, but the right-wing entertainment industry's "business model" to believe that, as Frum states, Obama is bring some sort of liberal apocalypse, those folks are the reason why Romney lost.

Why?

Because those folks are the "base" now of the Republican party. They are pushing candidates, as Karl Rove said, that aren't capable of winning.

They are also basically forcing the "grown up" Republicans, those that used to win elections, to say things as drastic as what Herman Cain recently said, which is that there needs to be a viable mainstream third party, not infested by those living in a fantasy world.

It would be great to think that, after all of these guys on the right, so shocked by Romney's loss, that after they had a chance to recover from their grief and anger they said, "if I was so wrong about this, and if people like Beck and Limbaugh lied about this, what else am I being lied to about?"

And that's Frum's point; until the base of the Republican party stops being followers, and learn to think for themselves, the right-wing entertainment industry will continue to be the driver of the GOP and the GOP will continue to lose elections.

If they don't start living in reality, we'll all suffer.

edit on 12-11-2012 by longlostbrother because: (no reason given)
edit on 12-11-2012 by longlostbrother because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 10:02 AM
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COME ON!!! It's from MSNBC!!!!! That's like Communist China declaring that Democracy is bad and YOU believing it!

JESSSSSSSSSSSSUS H. CHRIST! The ignorance of the masses is shocking!!!!
edit on 12-11-2012 by kozmo because: spelling



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 10:08 AM
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reply to post by longlostbrother
 


This was an excellent example of the new direction the GOP must face before even considering the next. I especially like how he said the GOP has been swindled and lied to and that currently they are cowards and followers.



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 10:09 AM
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Hey, I'm just curious here..... If people were to want to take a break so they could miss all the right/left bash each other 'just for the sake of bashing' threads.... How long do ya figure they'd have to stay offline? I mean I figured a few days of gloating and revenge city...but this is getting a bit absurd. Is this to go on for weeks? Months? Years?



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 10:23 AM
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now.msn.com...

Your choice of sources says more than the "subject material".



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 10:29 AM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


I still haven't logged back in to Facebook, going to give it another week.

But anecdotally, the Democratic folks I know are gloating while the die hard Republicans are acting. I know of at least two companies shutting down completely. The owners don't feel the effort is worth the reward anymore. I know of a couple of others that are going to lay off a couple of workers and/or not expand/invest in the business at this time. Had one client who went from talking about adding to some of the services I sell after the election now he's dropping some of his existing services.

I voted for Johnson, so I really don't care what either head of the one-party-system we have feels right now, but the GOP has multiple problems that I don't think they've even identified yet. A monochrome party, rejection of Liberty for all to see (ie response to Ron Paul), foreign adventurism, no vision on a real energy policy, and probably a score more. If they don't address them in a hurry, at best they are going to spend as long out of power as they did during and after the New Deal and at worst going the way of the Whigs.

The two things that are going to crush this country economically are: medical costs (the underlying medical costs that drive the costs of medicaid and medicare not those programs specifically) and defense spending (which could be halved with a real energy policy). Both sides talk around the edges of these issues, but never get into real solutions because big pharma, big oil, and the MIC frankly own both parties.



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 10:29 AM
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Originally posted by kozmo
COME ON!!! It's from MSNBC!!!!! That's like Communist Chine espousing the Democracy is bad and YOU believing it!

JESSSSSSSSSSSSUS H. CHRIST! The ignorance of the masses is shocking!!!!


It's David Frum, speechwriter for George W Bush, arch liberal.

en.wikipedia.org...

Dismissing it because it's on a conservative's show on MSNBC is pretty much the definition of the ignorance you were bashing with all your caps and exclamation points.



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 10:31 AM
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Originally posted by rlnochance
now.msn.com...

Your choice of sources says more than the "subject material".



Yeah, this is exactly the braindead behaviour Frum is talking about. ^^^

Frum, a hard-core Republican, on Joe Scarsborough, another Republican's show.

But it's on MSNBC, so you know, those two Republican's are pushing a liberal agenda.

Sure.



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 10:33 AM
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Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Hey, I'm just curious here..... If people were to want to take a break so they could miss all the right/left bash each other 'just for the sake of bashing' threads.... How long do ya figure they'd have to stay offline? I mean I figured a few days of gloating and revenge city...but this is getting a bit absurd. Is this to go on for weeks? Months? Years?


Should we go back and look at the months and month and months you've spent lying to yourself about Romney? And the months and months and months you've spend bashing the left? And then hold you to the same standard as you're holding the left?

Or should we ignore this post in the same way that we ignored your delusional claims that Romney was going to win because all the polls were skewed? How'd that fantasy work out for you?



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 10:37 AM
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Originally posted by jefwane
The two things that are going to crush this country economically are: medical costs (the underlying medical costs that drive the costs of medicaid and medicare not those programs specifically) and defense spending (which could be halved with a real energy policy). Both sides talk around the edges of these issues, but never get into real solutions because big pharma, big oil, and the MIC frankly own both parties.


This is true. Now of the two major parties, which one is more likely to attempt to address these, if only modestly?

edit on 12-11-2012 by mbkennel because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 10:37 AM
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Of course, and I was expecting this, many of those on ATS that are destroying the Republican party, by living in a paranoid fantasy, are the first on this thread to bash it's content.

Look at the folks screaming that this is a lie because it was on MSNBC, even though it's a conversation between two prominent mainstream Republicans.

That's the sort of insanity Frum is decrying, and it's here in front of your eyes...



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 10:43 AM
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reply to post by longlostbrother
 


Get a clue!!!
MSNBC is a LIBERAL network and Frum is a RINO there to placate fools like you who desperately want to cling to some notion that the network is moderate and balanced.


With a crash, a bang, a boom and a BIG taste too, OH YEAH - HEY KOOLAID!!!



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 10:44 AM
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Originally posted by mbkennel

Originally posted by jefwane
The two things that are going to crush this country economically are: medical costs (the underlying medical costs that drive the costs of medicaid and medicare not those programs specifically) and defense spending (which could be halved with a real energy policy). Both sides talk around the edges of these issues, but never get into real solutions because big pharma, big oil, and the MIC frankly own both parties.


This is true. Now of the two major parties, which one is more likely to attempt to address these, if only modestly?

edit on 12-11-2012 by mbkennel because: (no reason given)


Only one party is willing to even address alternative concepts in energy production - the other keeps electing oil men.

Defense? Well... one party is clambering for more war, another is telling countries like Israel to cool it's jets... literally.

One party has historically been more open to defense cuts as well..

So... if those are your issues, just figure out which party I'm talking about and ... bam. you're sorted.



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 10:47 AM
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Originally posted by kozmo
reply to post by longlostbrother
 


Get a clue!!!
MSNBC is a LIBERAL network and Frum is a RINO there to placate fools like you who desperately want to cling to some notion that the network is moderate and balanced.


With a crash, a bang, a boom and a BIG taste too, OH YEAH - HEY KOOLAID!!!


Frum is a RINO? Are you crazy pants?

Frum, Bush's speechwriter?

Frum, one of the directors of the Republican Jewish Coalition?

The guy who wrote a book defending the Invasion of Iraq?

Only in delusionville could David Frum be seen as anything but a conservative Republican.

Here's more about Frum:


Writing for New York magazine in November 2011, Frum described his reaction to fellow Republicans, who had distanced themselves from him, saying, "Some of my Republican friends ask if I’ve gone crazy. I say: Look in the mirror." He described the development of an "alternative reality" within which the party, conservative think-tanks, and right wing commentators operate from a set of false facts about the economy and nonexistent threats to their traditional base of supporters. He expressed concern over the inability of moderate Republicans to criticize their conservative brethren, contrasting this to the 1960s split between moderate Ripon Republicans and conservative Goldwater Republicans, when moderates such as Michigan governor George Romney were publicly critical of the conservatives.




I’ve been a Republican all my adult life. I have worked on the editorial page of The Wall Street Journal, at Forbes magazine, at the Manhattan and American Enterprise Institutes, as a speechwriter in the George W. Bush administration. I believe in free markets, low taxes, reasonable regulation, and limited government. I voted for John ­McCain in 2008, and I have strongly criticized the major policy decisions of the Obama administration. But as I contemplate my party and my movement in 2011, I see things I simply cannot support.

-David Frum


nymag.com...
edit on 12-11-2012 by longlostbrother because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 10:55 AM
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reply to post by longlostbrother
 


Let me first begin by pointing out that I am a Constitutional Libertarian. Therefore, I hate each of the two major parties equally. Also, I am not easily duped into being divided and conquered by the theatrics of the two-party false dichotomy.

MSNBC, FOX, CNN et al. are there, not to enlighten you, but to keep you in the dark. Divide and conquer! The two parties are, in fact, different sides of the same coin. The "politics" of the day are mere theatrics to trick you into believing that there is a difference. The networks are part of the charade. Since they are out to make money, they need an audience. How do you get an audience? Well, simply stated, by playing to them and giving them what they want - just as MSNBC has done here.

We can agree to disagree, but I see right through Frum and countless other "pundits" whose worthless drivel is parroted about by both parties.



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 10:58 AM
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Originally posted by longlostbrother

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Hey, I'm just curious here..... If people were to want to take a break so they could miss all the right/left bash each other 'just for the sake of bashing' threads.... How long do ya figure they'd have to stay offline? I mean I figured a few days of gloating and revenge city...but this is getting a bit absurd. Is this to go on for weeks? Months? Years?


Should we go back and look at the months and month and months you've spent lying to yourself about Romney? And the months and months and months you've spend bashing the left? And then hold you to the same standard as you're holding the left?

Or should we ignore this post in the same way that we ignored your delusional claims that Romney was going to win because all the polls were skewed? How'd that fantasy work out for you?

Nawww... I don't recommend we go backward. I did my time and I put my effort and hours in for Dr. Paul's candidacy. I know as well or better than most how screwed up the Republican party is.....recall St Charles Missouri? That was just one of many examples of the GOP in Missouri burying Ron Paul whether he had proper numbers or support or not. The point is...yeah, the party has major issues. THEY BOTH DO.

I'm just wondering what is served by starting fights and throwing things in each other faces day in and day out? It's a time for healing....yet it's as though the fight to hurt each other is JUST starting. That's all. Your reply to my message shows the true depth of your emotion and venom.....which removes any doubt I might have had about my first post. Hopefully....the revenge nonsense doesn't go on too long. The OTHER HALF of the nation is about sick of it, frankly.



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 11:28 AM
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I think the Republicans lost because they really didn't have a platform or message other than to be "against" whatever Obama and the Democrats are for.
Nor does it help to field a candidate who is one of the 1%, known to have personally benefited from Shipping GM overseas and destruction of other American industries.
How many people of color can relate to someone like Romney?
The demographics were the tidal wave buried him and Republicans better wake up and smell the coffee here. What hope did they offer to the poor, students or minorities?
What gripes me is that they have transformed conservatism in to a dirty word while claiming they are exactly that is the farthest thing from the truth.
Once the Neocons took charge the rhetoric of fear replaced fiscal responsibility, limited foreign entanglements became wars overseas and family values were chucked altogether.

Not that my little rant here says anything good about the Democrats; they've had control for 4 -6 years and Obamacare is all they have to show for it? Hope and change was empty rhetoric to sucker people in to thinking things would change when in fact all they've done is accelerate the problems left by the Bush administration.



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 11:36 AM
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Originally posted by kozmo
reply to post by longlostbrother
 


Let me first begin by pointing out that I am a Constitutional Libertarian. Therefore, I hate each of the two major parties equally. Also, I am not easily duped into being divided and conquered by the theatrics of the two-party false dichotomy.

MSNBC, FOX, CNN et al. are there, not to enlighten you, but to keep you in the dark. Divide and conquer! The two parties are, in fact, different sides of the same coin. The "politics" of the day are mere theatrics to trick you into believing that there is a difference. The networks are part of the charade. Since they are out to make money, they need an audience. How do you get an audience? Well, simply stated, by playing to them and giving them what they want - just as MSNBC has done here.

We can agree to disagree, but I see right through Frum and countless other "pundits" whose worthless drivel is parroted about by both parties.


This is EXACTLY the sort of paranoid and wholesale attitude that Frum, who is a conservative, and not a nut-case, is talking about.

Talking the ENTIRE media, lumping them together and all of their staff, together, into a monolithic entity, and then casually dismissing it, because you know better... it's Prima facia absurdism...

It's unsubtle and means you miss out on any good because of your wholesale assumptions of a conspiracy... it;s the opposite of clever.

As for you being a "constitutional libertarian" - all I can do is laugh. Most of the founding fathers would look at the extreme views held by most folks who choose to label themselves and "constitutional libertarians" and wonder what constitution you were reading. They themselves couldn't agree, before, during and after the writing of the constitution, on what whole chunks of it even meant. To that end, the courts have defined and redefined it;s meaning repeatedly, because it often doesn't have a single absolute meaning.

Which means that the term constitutional libertarian is less about the constitution, as a document, and more about your BELIEF in what it means. Making your beliefs no more pure than any other partisan.



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 11:38 AM
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Wow just wow.

Republicans lost 2 elections in a row they ran RINOS social conservatism does not work for the right.

They tried to pander by running a "moderate" hell I am so disgusted by both sides trying to spin the election, and it is nothing but spin especially coming from MSNBC.

They have a platform that won them the House in 2010 won them Wisconsin, and maintained control of the House.

The Republican base was not happy with the choice of Romney, but that is what they were given some said to hell with it, others voted for Romney because they had no choice.

Those who nominated Romney were wrong, just as they were wrong about McCain.
edit on 12-11-2012 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 11:39 AM
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Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

Originally posted by longlostbrother

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Hey, I'm just curious here..... If people were to want to take a break so they could miss all the right/left bash each other 'just for the sake of bashing' threads.... How long do ya figure they'd have to stay offline? I mean I figured a few days of gloating and revenge city...but this is getting a bit absurd. Is this to go on for weeks? Months? Years?


Should we go back and look at the months and month and months you've spent lying to yourself about Romney? And the months and months and months you've spend bashing the left? And then hold you to the same standard as you're holding the left?

Or should we ignore this post in the same way that we ignored your delusional claims that Romney was going to win because all the polls were skewed? How'd that fantasy work out for you?

Nawww... I don't recommend we go backward. I did my time and I put my effort and hours in for Dr. Paul's candidacy. I know as well or better than most how screwed up the Republican party is.....recall St Charles Missouri? That was just one of many examples of the GOP in Missouri burying Ron Paul whether he had proper numbers or support or not. The point is...yeah, the party has major issues. THEY BOTH DO.

I'm just wondering what is served by starting fights and throwing things in each other faces day in and day out? It's a time for healing....yet it's as though the fight to hurt each other is JUST starting. That's all. Your reply to my message shows the true depth of your emotion and venom.....which removes any doubt I might have had about my first post. Hopefully....the revenge nonsense doesn't go on too long. The OTHER HALF of the nation is about sick of it, frankly.


Jesus, man.

I have seen you spout some of the most vile partisan rhetoric on ATS. It's funny how all it took was you to be exposed as a delusional windbag and your endless predictions shown to be complete and utter nonsense, to make you interested in "healing".

Healing.

More like begging for scraps now that your team has been shown to be a big ol' shaggy dog.





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