The Golden Rule!

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posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 05:04 PM
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reply to post by ButtUglyToad
 


I don't know.... is it possible to not percieve?
And I am capable of attaching no value (I don't believe anything has inherent value or meaning)
But then I remain indifferent.... and somewhere I came to the conclusion that that is a waste of my experience here......

I think......simply being aware that my values are my values, that my preferences and ethics are mine (not universal) helps.




posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 10:31 PM
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Originally posted by Bluesma
reply to post by ButtUglyToad
 


I don't know.... is it possible to not percieve?
And I am capable of attaching no value (I don't believe anything has inherent value or meaning)
But then I remain indifferent.... and somewhere I came to the conclusion that that is a waste of my experience here......

I think......simply being aware that my values are my values, that my preferences and ethics are mine (not universal) helps.



The correct question is:

"Is it possible to Perceive without Perception?"


The answer is Yes but then, HOW?

Ribbit



posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 01:05 AM
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reply to post by ButtUglyToad
 


Do you mean percieving without bias?
Or perceiving without subjectivity?

Because I can't grasp perceiving without perception- the word perception refers to "the act of percieving"......



(i hope nobody is going to get upset because we're slightly off topic, I enjoy organic exchanges.....)



posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 01:11 AM
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reply to post by Bluesma
 


Your Golden Rule is based upon the concept that it is applicable to everyone. It is not. Not all things are equal or are even of the same concept or material. Such is the state of Human Thought and Concepts.

You were right when you stated that People do not think the same nor do they even have the same values placed upon concepts or ideas.

People are very much different from one another even in the same country. They are completely different when we get into different cultures. Split Infinity



posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 01:54 AM
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Originally posted by Bluesma
reply to post by ButtUglyToad
 


Do you mean percieving without bias?
Or perceiving without subjectivity?

Because I can't grasp perceiving without perception- the word perception refers to "the act of percieving"......



(i hope nobody is going to get upset because we're slightly off topic, I enjoy organic exchanges.....)



To understand it, be a toad and lose the pee.


To perceive withut perception is to RECEIVE.

Negative Perception (bad/wrong/etc.) Zero Perception Positive Perception (good/right/etc)

Zero Perception = NO perception

Zero Perception = Neutral/Neither

Ribbit


edit on 14-11-2012 by ButtUglyToad because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 03:37 AM
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Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by Bluesma
 


Your Golden Rule is based upon the concept that it is applicable to everyone. It is not.



That was exactly my point. We see and hear often people saying that this is the "Golden Rule" because it is applicable to all situations, and really all you need to determine ethical behavior.
I refute that.



posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 03:47 AM
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reply to post by ButtUglyToad
 


Positive perception? Negative perception? I cannot fit that into my understanding!
Perception is neutral. The application of values (good/bad: positive/negative: right/wrong) is a separate process, done within the mind, according to the individual preferences and values.

The perception itself is just reception of what is.
I perceive an object, in space, with certain characteristics- color, shape, smell, texture....
That is the perception.

Then the digestion begins and my mind determines I call it an apple, the location is three feet in front of my body, that color is red, that shape is round, that texture is smooth....

THEN the application of values- I want (or don't want) the apple.... apples are good for one to eat, good for health, this apple should or shouldn't be there right now, it is good or bad to take it ......

I do not experience positive/negative application as being simultaneous with perception!

And yes, I can experience the perception without the application of values ( and even without the application of language) but like I said, then I become indifferent. I am inert. I have no reason to do anything, I have no direction, I point my intent in no direction. Fine while meditating... but to spend a whole life? You'd have to be hospitalized so that someone would determine it is a "good" thing to feed your body, or cover it from the cold!



posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 05:44 PM
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Originally posted by Bluesma

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by Bluesma
 


Your Golden Rule is based upon the concept that it is applicable to everyone. It is not.



That was exactly my point. We see and hear often people saying that this is the "Golden Rule" because it is applicable to all situations, and really all you need to determine ethical behavior.
I refute that.


It is also written that we are suppose to love our neighbor as ourselves but when one hates one's self, the equation dictates you WILL hate others. So the correct way to do it is to Love thyself as thy neighbor, since you MUST love yourself before you can love everyone else.


So you are correct to refute that but all of this should be making you wonder about the bible. Is it the truth or is its purpose to confuse the issue? If you look closely at this Construct, you'll find out that it is full of Entropy, such as what you pointed out and if people actually believe the crap they are being programmed with, this Construct will collapse because science has proven that Closed Systems will continue to collapse/explode until it becomes an Open System, then it is eternal.

Now, back to Perception. If you Perceive something, the first filter is Perception but if you eliminate Perception by being Neutral when viewing something, then the first filter is Logic and the errors created by Perception are bypassed and you have a much better chance of being correct but it isn't a given, you still have to be alert to possible errors.

So which has the best chance of being correct? Filter with Perception first or Logic?

To perceive creates perception, whereas, to receive creates Reception. A satellite dish RECEIVES a signal and it does not filter it with outside filters that can muck up the data being received, so why should a human be any different?

Ribbit


edit on 14-11-2012 by ButtUglyToad because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 05:54 PM
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Originally posted by Bluesma
reply to post by ButtUglyToad
 


Positive perception? Negative perception? I cannot fit that into my understanding!
Perception is neutral. The application of values (good/bad: positive/negative: right/wrong) is a separate process, done within the mind, according to the individual preferences and values.

The perception itself is just reception of what is.
I perceive an object, in space, with certain characteristics- color, shape, smell, texture....
That is the perception.

Then the digestion begins and my mind determines I call it an apple, the location is three feet in front of my body, that color is red, that shape is round, that texture is smooth....

THEN the application of values- I want (or don't want) the apple.... apples are good for one to eat, good for health, this apple should or shouldn't be there right now, it is good or bad to take it ......

I do not experience positive/negative application as being simultaneous with perception!

And yes, I can experience the perception without the application of values ( and even without the application of language) but like I said, then I become indifferent. I am inert. I have no reason to do anything, I have no direction, I point my intent in no direction. Fine while meditating... but to spend a whole life? You'd have to be hospitalized so that someone would determine it is a "good" thing to feed your body, or cover it from the cold!


Perception is NOT neutral!


I just got through watching a police officer talking with someone they just arrested for public indecency, all because the person was hanging out at a local hangout in the desert where gays hangout and they do some interesting things back in the bush but they are hidden behind the bushes, so it does not qualify as public so the man did no wrong but the officer was part of a police sting to arrest the gays in their hangout and what got the man arrested is the officer asked him to show him his penis and the guy did and the officer arrested the man for public indecency and although the situation clearly qualifies as entrapment, that's not the issue. The officer looked at the man and asked: "Do you always pull out your dick and show it to anyone that asks to see it?" As the officer was saying it, the disgust in his face was obvious and that disgust is PURE perception because he sees homosexuality as wrong, so anything gay is automatically wrong in his mind, in his Matrix.

There's no such thing as automatically wrong but you can sit there and give me a long list of what's right & wrong and it's that list that you use to filter everything with FIRST and when you do that the end result is corrupted and prone to error.

So Perception is NOT neutral, but Logic IS!


Ribbit


Ps: For the record, I was not arrested in the Pickle Park Sting.
I'm not gay but there's nothing wrong with being gay. I was arrested for trespassing on the railroad.
They made a mistake by arresting me on that day. I got to watch everything from the inside-out and with me being me, I can promise you there wasn't a single cop there that day that liked me and they eventually locked me in the transport van by myself so they wouldn't have to listen to me explaining how to beat the charges against them to the guys that were arrested.
I'm a bigger pain in the ass in the real than on here, when warranted.


edit on 14-11-2012 by ButtUglyToad because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 06:36 PM
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Originally posted by Bluesma
reply to post by ButtUglyToad
 


Positive perception? Negative perception? I cannot fit that into my understanding!
Perception is neutral. The application of values (good/bad: positive/negative: right/wrong) is a separate process, done within the mind, according to the individual preferences and values.

The perception itself is just reception of what is.
I perceive an object, in space, with certain characteristics- color, shape, smell, texture....
That is the perception.

Then the digestion begins and my mind determines I call it an apple, the location is three feet in front of my body, that color is red, that shape is round, that texture is smooth....

THEN the application of values- I want (or don't want) the apple.... apples are good for one to eat, good for health, this apple should or shouldn't be there right now, it is good or bad to take it ......

I do not experience positive/negative application as being simultaneous with perception!

And yes, I can experience the perception without the application of values ( and even without the application of language) but like I said, then I become indifferent. I am inert. I have no reason to do anything, I have no direction, I point my intent in no direction. Fine while meditating... but to spend a whole life? You'd have to be hospitalized so that someone would determine it is a "good" thing to feed your body, or cover it from the cold!


Just one more tidbit.

Positive & Negative reception is Perception.

Neutral reception is Reception.

The reason why is neutral pre-expects nothing but Positive & Negative Reception already has an opinion and that opinion will adversely/inadvertantly affect the outcome almost every time because it will insert its opinion into what was received by the viewer.

Ribbit


edit on 14-11-2012 by ButtUglyToad because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 02:51 AM
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Okay... what you are describing is bias.... personal opinion and judgment.
I insist that I experience perception without that, and that it is another layer of processing I can choose to place upon what I percieve or not.

But I will not insist that all people experience that, I cannot speak for all people.

The judgement of personality, or bias, makes it a more personal view, and infuses individual will into events (and as you say, influences following events) . But not adding that part is what being passive is- it is being feminine- yeah, a receptor, if you will.

But I still consider it perception because of this-
I suspect that subconsciously we create this world, down to the forms in matter.
So that, even before we get to the conscious levels of positive/negative judgment,
we have earlier helped to create the existance of the object we call "apple"
So that suggests a projection, though subconscious and perhaps fitting differently into time



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 04:51 PM
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reply to post by Bluesma
 

OK...sorry for the misunderstanding. Split Infinity



posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 02:35 AM
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edit on 16/11/12 by chloe2850 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 02:53 AM
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Originally posted by Bluesma
reply to post by Sissel
 



People here DO offer what they would like to recieve, but in many cases, I didn't want the same, so at first, I didn't recognize that. I thought they were not following that Golden rule- but they were.


That is so typical everywhere, I grew up with the Golden rule that you should never give and expect something in return. Nearly everyone expects something for free, or if they do something you should repay the favour which I think is wrong.

What ever happened to the give from your heart!!!



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 01:58 AM
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Originally posted by chloe2850


That is so typical everywhere, I grew up with the Golden rule that you should never give and expect something in return. Nearly everyone expects something for free, or if they do something you should repay the favour which I think is wrong.

What ever happened to the give from your heart!!!


I think there's been a misunderstanding- perhaps the words I used confused things- this is refering to the concept of choosing your actions ethically- not giving gifts specifically, though that is an act that could be included.

More like, in trying to decide what you should do, imagine yourself in the shoes of the other person involved.

Like if you had a choice between stealing from someone, or giving them a gift, you would first ask yourself, "Which of those things would I rather someone do for me?"
-Not because you hope they will do it in return, but just to attempt at choosing the kindest and most ethical choice!

My point was that this becomes a problem because we are not all the same- we assume the other person is like ourself and would rather have a gift than be stolen from... what if that is mistaken? (maybe they don't want the object anymore and would love to get the insurance money for it instead!)

Or what if you decide they want a gift, and since you think My Little Pony's are really cute and love getting them as gifts, you get one for them.... but they hate those! That means the Golden Rule failed in making the best choice.



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 02:18 AM
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reply to post by Bluesma
 


The golden rule?
Here you go:



Still relevant to this very day...

- Lee



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 07:32 AM
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reply to post by Bluesma
 


Ok I understand what you are saying, however in situations like that when I see that happen also, what I had learnt is " it's the thought that counts". I guess you are right the golden rule does not apply to all because; of there circumstance, how they were raised, and there perception of law, and life is completely different. It's what they have perceived as good or bad, right, wrong.

In life there is no right or wrong way for the individual, letsvhope we find out at the end......



I hope I'm on your track now.




posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 10:01 AM
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reply to post by chloe2850
 


Well, yeah, you get it... but you don't have to be on the same track- it's okay if you aren't !


But yeah, the idea is pretty simple, I might confuse it a bit by using too many words at times, while I am contemplating, and going in circles...



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 10:55 AM
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Originally posted by lee anoma
reply to post by Bluesma
 


The golden rule?
Here you go:



Still relevant to this very day...

- Lee



Dude/Dudette .. you Might want to Warn peeps that there are Explisid words in your Vid link .. of course you cant say/type them here .. be aware that Your link has the F bomb in it..and my kids like to watch what I open .. choose your link carefully next time please.

Back to subject ..

I would suggest that you WILL "Do to others the way YOU WANT to treat Others" .. NOT "treat others the way you want to be treated". I completely agree with you OP.

Its a one way street..

You choose to be who you Are .. Or you choose to be who you are NOT at any given time just to be accepted.

I am ME .. Period ..

If you dont like me .. fine .. Im not here to please YOU.

I will treat you however the way I want to treat you. Im not here in this life to cowtoe to anyone.

I have to remember that there are reprocusions (sp) to my actions/words .. but I am who I am. ..

Peace.

JG.



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 11:05 AM
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Originally posted by jaduguru


I would suggest that you WILL "Do to others the way YOU WANT to treat Others" .. NOT "treat others the way you want to be treated". I completely agree with you OP.

Its a one way street..

You choose to be who you Are .. Or you choose to be who you are NOT at any given time just to be accepted.

I am ME .. Period ..

If you dont like me .. fine .. Im not here to please YOU.

I will treat you however the way I want to treat you. Im not here in this life to cowtoe to anyone.

I have to remember that there are reprocusions (sp) to my actions/words .. but I am who I am. ..

Peace.

JG.


I do not, I guess that gives me something to think about. I definately get very caught up in trying to figure out how I should treat others. Mostly because I don't feel I have a desire or preference most of the time.

Or my desire is to get across a certain sentiment or intent, and how exactly that is communicated doesn't really matter to me. All that matters is that it is in a form that they grasp and comprehend. So that means looking for the guesture, word, or act that is specific for them.





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