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Quantum Consciousness and the Classical Brain

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posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 12:28 AM
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I think 2 things are becoming clear. The human brain is classical and conscious is Quantum. The reason why people want to trap consciousness as an emergent property of classical physics, because as soon as you connect consciousness to Quantum Mechanics, it opens the door to life after death, psychic ability and more.

A great, scientific theory out there is Orch-OR by Sir Roger Penrose and Stuart Hameroff. Now, I don't think this theory is the final answer on this but it's a great start. There needs to be more research and more theories built around Orch-OR. Here's a good video explaining it:



The thing is, consciousness can't be an emergent property of a classical brain. For instance, how does the classical brain recall specific memories at will? How does the classical brain know the difference between specific memories and which memories I wish to recall?

One of the great things Penrose showed is that the brain is non computable. Therefore you can't just reach a level of computation and viola, consciousness.

They're starting to look at QM playing a role in everything from bird migration to the sense of smell. If QM gave the human species an advantage, then it could apply to consciousness. If a human species within a population evolved the use of things like Entanglement and Non Locality, they would have a clear advantage over every species on earth and would become immortal. This is because the quantum information that makes you, you would dissipate from the body at death and become entangled with space-time geometry at Planck scales.




posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 01:41 AM
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There was just a recent & very length thread on this.

Quantum Theory of Soul's Existence

I've been following Stuart Hameroff and the Orch-OR theory for a couple years now; I think he has a sound argument for how consciousness arises, & I don't find any noticeable holes in his theory. That said, a lot of people think the theory is complete hogwash, although usually I don't get precise reasoning for why.

Most of the cases made against it involve comparisons to religious dogma and the like.



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 08:32 AM
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Interesting that such a ground breaking theory with absolutely no flaws in either factual or logical reasoning; that can and does provide so many explanations both on a scientific and spiritual level; has received almost no attention here in the scientific forum on ATS( even from the usual debunkers). Nor very much in the wider scientific media as a whole...

I think this in itself speaks volumes about the present day attitudes of most of those within the established scientific community. Nobody raises an eyebrow when discussing the quantum phenomena of moving forwards or backwards in time, particles existing in more than one place at once or amazing experiments such as the double slit and the eraser experiments. But when it comes to the subject of human consciousness and many of the fundamental questions such as life after death no one wants to touch it with a 10 foot pole.

And to tell you the truth I think it's pathetic and one of the many reasons society today is so screwed up. Everyone's so busy sticking their heads in the sand studying their own insignificant piece of the puzzle that noone sees the larger picture and the possible ramifications these theories bring up. The strange thing is after so many years of slapping each other on the back while bagging out religious and new age types two well respected scientists have come up with a legitimate theory (and have the maths and reasoning to back it up) which may well see most of them many of them eating their own words. And yet they simply ignore it or click on fb to see which spiritual belief Richard Dawkins is bagging out now on 'I f---ing love science'.

THIS shows that the mystics were right (in their own way).

THIS explains why conscious can affect matter outside the confines of the human brain both backwards and forwards in time (double slit and eraser experiments)

THIS explains the placebo effect.

THIS explains the many recent experiments that show statistically significant responses in the human body prior to various large scale stimuli (i.e. the human body predicting the future)

THIS is the most logical explanation for a multitude of phenomena such as ghosts, ESP, clairvoyance, near death experience etc.

I myself have always suspected that consciousness resides mainly in the quantum world ever since I did a few physics subjects when studying for my science degree. The very fact we still cannot explain what consciousness is or even where exactly within the brain it resides only reflects the fact that the Newtonian world of classical science cannot not will not ever be able to fully explain human consciousness. The very fact that everything we see around us today when broken down to its fundamental level is merely quantum particles/waves and energy fluxes speaks volumes in itself. Yet for some reason most scientist believe that for whatever reason there's some magical divide between the quantum world and the macroscopic world with absolutely no overlap whatsoever. This is in itself a logically flawed concept.

I fully believe that one day science and spirituality will meet and finally agree though I wonder how many people will even take notice.

(Btw sorry for the high amount of grammatical errors but its quite tricky typing out such a long response on ones phone)

Peace out - 1lw

edit on 12/11/2012 by 1littlewolf because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 09:20 AM
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reply to post by 1littlewolf
 


That was a great post Littlewolf.

I full agree with you....again my friend.



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 09:34 AM
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reply to post by WoodSpirit
 


Lol cheers so much woodspirit, occasionally even I have my moments.


I realise none of this has been proven beyond the initial 'blackboard' phase but this should hail a major new avenue for scientific research.... and yet nothing but a bit of half hearted attempts to debunk it from anything that even closely resembles mainstream scientific media.

If it wasn't for the fact that I'm into some fairly weird websites I would never have even heard about this theory.

edit on 12/11/2012 by 1littlewolf because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 09:43 AM
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About 40% of identical twins have a psychic link that cannot be explained by classical physics. I recently wrote an article postulating that the only way that connection could work is if quantum entanglement is involved. You can read the full piece HERE. Below is a short excerpt from it...


Since the connection has been proven this started me thinking about how such a weak electrical signal as a brain wave could possibly have any influence beyond a few feet, never mind across a continent. The only thing that I could think of was the phenomenon known as quantum entanglement. Albert Einstein described it as “spooky action at a distance”. Quantum entanglement is a connection between two subatomic particles such as photons, which were created from the same event, which allows one of the particles to react to a state change in the other instantaneously over any distance. This seems to violate the universal speed limit of the speed of light. If you need an explanation of quantum entanglement read this article before continuing with this one.



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 09:43 AM
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reply to post by 1littlewolf
 


Yes, you and I both know the quantum eraser experiments more or less prove that reality is a product of consciousness, or is at least affected by it.

Yet it is more than most are able or ready to take in.



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 07:26 PM
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Our brains are inside a vehicle and this being our bodies. The common senses as well as our legs and arms are designed for survival. Quantum Mechanics is a part of reality our bodies have trouble directly observing, that does not mean our brain cannot.

"Classical" thinking is about developing a model that is consistent with what the common sense's can identify as real.

It is not difficult to understand why this can be a problem.

Any thoughts?



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 07:54 PM
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reply to post by neoholographic
 




The human brain is classical


It better be, other wise we'd be disembodied spirits.



conscious is Quantum


Consciousness is unexplained. That's a bold statement for something still being defined.

I'm not a fan of Penrose, due to his Omega Point Theory. That didn't sit well with me, but what can you expect a mathematician to come up with?

As far as memories go.....Ah! The memories.

Your interaction with the present is actually compressed, and stored away as little fragments. You actually don't have any memories. *Gasp* No vast storage space required.

It's true. What you think are memories are just carefully re-constructed bits of information that are pieced together into a suitable representation that you are comfortable with.

Can't remember a birthday or anniversary? Gee, that's because you forgot it, in other words, there wasn't enough information to survive the compression, and not enough "essence" to make it important enough.

We only remember things that we put an effort into remembering.

Interesting thread. SnF.



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 08:12 PM
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Memories can be accessed by personal experiences, and if it is important enough for one emotionally they remember.

Any thoughts?



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 08:32 PM
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reply to post by neoholographic
 


Another good question that coincides with everything you said. When I read something I can't possibly know the turth to because obviously the physical brain of my incarnate cannot recollect memories that pertain to it. Why do I get cold chills as if to say from a spiritual stand point. "Hey this is true, believe it"

Would that not be proof that maybe the soul experienced it or that the matrix is giving you a hint. Obviously if you've felt stimulated on certain topics that your brain didn't know before but something kept pulling you in. You Quantum make up may be leading you along. So then can we accept there is Classical brain knowledge and then there is Soul knowledge?



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 08:38 PM
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Watched the video. I believe the theory to be truth. I also believe proof of this in some way is such and I'd like to hear other ideas on it.

Tubulin protein dimer sub units is the biological reflection of our technological fibre optics!



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 09:58 PM
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Originally posted by Kashai
Memories can be accessed by personal experiences, and if it is important enough for one emotionally they remember.

Any thoughts?


define your terms in that sentence to realize that sentence did not explain anything, at least in the mechanical depth the OP is seeking and pondering on..



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 06:07 PM
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Originally posted by ImaFungi

Originally posted by Kashai
Memories can be accessed by personal experiences, and if it is important enough for one emotionally they remember.

Any thoughts?


define your terms in that sentence to realize that sentence did not explain anything, at least in the mechanical depth the OP is seeking and pondering on..


Actually freind I was responding to Druid 42.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 07:02 PM
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My impression is that treating fundamental subjective experiences is irrelevant, bespeaks of a condition where feelings are outside nature. I mean this in the sense that given human subjective experiences can be defined as mere waste material, that is irrelevant to nature, then it is not a part of nature. Effectively the existence of consciousness can be argued though, in relation to the ability of consciousness to do work? Consciousness if invalid should not be able to solve problems, beyond what an animal can.

Therein exist the failure of Materialism, that humans do not respond well to positive reinforcement, Pavlovian or Skinner-an behavioral models. Alternatively, emotions developed due to the fact they are an inherent part of reality.

Any thoughts?



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 07:38 PM
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I agree the human brain supports quantum consciousness, but I think the problem explaining it is that there just isn't a cut and paste kind of proof. Quantum consciousness needs to be experienced in a way that leaves a memory trail that can be audited (to use the Scientology term). People eventually will see for themselves that reality is in most cases a superposition of possibilities (more so these days due to the way they are layering the MSM events).

Unfortunately validating quantum consciousness opens the door to all kinds of revisionist history possibilities and might not be a comfortable experience for many people. Look how posters on ATS respond to threads involving subject matter "labeled insane".



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 07:54 PM
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reply to post by Cauliflower
 


An insanity was Psychiatry of the 1940's to 1960's when materialist models were en force, on a world wide scale.

Psychiatrist, Psychologist working in Mental Health Facilities no longer take Materialist models seriously, with respect to human consciousness. Speaking realistically it may be accepted as a way to train your dog but, when it comes to humans


It does not work without the human cooperating,

Animal like Elephants, Chimpanzees, Gorillas, Killer Whales, Lions, Tigers and Bears also do not always respond well to Classical conditioning.

Any thoughts?



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 07:59 PM
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Originally posted by Kashai
Memories can be accessed by personal experiences, and if it is important enough for one emotionally they remember.

Any thoughts?


Tiggers.

What do you think about DNA passed down info that can be accessed through the brain say as a processor to serve/affect the consciousness?



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 08:04 PM
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posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 08:04 PM
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reply to post by Logarock
 


In my opinion Bipolar disorder is in effect, the result of the need to have people work 16 hours a day, like in the case of early industrialization..

Any thoughts?
edit on 15-11-2012 by Kashai because: Changed content





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