Go secede from the Union already. We Don't Want You.

reply to post by Myomistress


What do you call a man that doesn't want to take care of a child? A deadbeat dad. He's ridiculed for it too.

What do you call a woman that doesn't want to take care of a child? Pro-choice. But that's okay, it's her right to choose.

The issue with succession is this:

Unless enough people are going to agree to it (and it won't happen as the most signatures of a single state were 23,000 in Texas that I am aware of; so it isn't even something anyone can entertain at this time), any single state would never be able to do it. And if you did legally make it happen, your military would be gone as you would be foreign territory and all personnel would be organized to move. Most likely all current military from that state would be granted some legal right to stay a member of the military and withdrawn from the State. So, instantly you would have no military and be subject to any number of foreign threats. And the members who try to defect would be considered AWOL. You would now be a weakened neighbor to the U.S. and prime real estate to someone like Russia, China, etc. The truth is, the quality of life for that one state would bottom out within weeks and you would have a mass exodus back to protected U.S. soil. This is just off the top of my head. I'm sure the reality of the situation would be much worse and more complicated.

The ONLY way to fix the things wrong with this country is through a combined effort of everyone to work on the major issues. As long as we keep ourselves divided by bickering over issues that can be dealt with properly, those making the decisions will continue to do what they do.

- Dredge

Balkanization of the U.S. would do nothing but benefit everyone.

Let the jesus freaks have a chunk of the country, and let the leftists have another chunk. Stick all of the welfare recipients with the leftists since they are so compassionate, and let the rest of us common sense using people have our own chunk.

Works like a charm! That's right, America. Fight amongst yourselves...while we rob you blind.

Sincerely all of ours, Republicans and Democrats.

Originally posted by zonetripper2065
reply to post by otherpotato

 

I don't give a hoot about any of those things. But I still want to secede. You can keep the tsa, ndaa, fbi, cia, all thats yours man enjoy. You can be an a member of the ussa I'll be the real American

edit on 11-11-2012 by zonetripper2065 because: (no reason given)

Oh lord...You have picked Sarah Palin as your leader?...Best of luck!

Originally posted by russ1969
So when the going gets tough it's time to run?

Not at all, but things today are well beyond "tough". I have to ask, would you have said the same thing to Benjamin Franklin? George Washington? John Hancock? Have you even read the Declaration of Independence? In that document, it list the reasons why the Colonies declared independence from the Empire. I implore you to go back and read that document. Fact is, the Founding Fathers of this Country would have taken up arms much sooner. The Founding Fathers of this Country would be absolutely ashamed with what we are putting up with.

Do you really think separation would be the answer?

Yes I do. The Federal Government is no longer representative of those they govern over. So in my opinion there are only 2 options. Dissolve this Government and form a new one as outlined by the Declaration of Independence or succession from the Union. This Government will not be dissolved without bloodshed. Succession is a peaceful solution- if the Federal Government allows it to be.

So you must also be ok with an all out civil war?

Of course not. If I was ok with all out civil war I would promote the idea of dissolving the Federal Government by force, and that is an idea I do not promote nor support. Succession does not have to be violent in any way... unless it is the Federal Government who escalates the situation to violence. The truth is the States have every right to succeed from the Union should the choose to do so. It is not unlike a marriage. When a couple splits up and parts ways it does not have to be violent unless one party chooses to make it so. If your partner chooses to leave the relationship, do you support the idea of using force to keep that relationship together?

It is radical views like these that will keep our government clamping down on us every minute of the day.

Radical view? Do you consider the Founding Fathers to be "radical" as well? There is nothing "radical" about freedom. It is this so called "radical" idea that founded this Country. Furthermore, the Federal Government was clamping down prior to any talk of succession. The population was being clamped down on in the name of security and protecting us from "terrorism" not because a handful of petitions popped up with talk of succession.

I used to think just like you. But now i see what a terrible path that is. It is easy to be wrong, But it is so hard for people to except that they are wrong and actually try to change. I am not saying don't fight for what you believe in, I am saying there are many different ways to go about it.

Then what do you suggest? What is your solution to peacefully reform a Government so that it is representative of the people? Give us all some ideas, I am sure many people would love to hear it but please, save us that silly 60's song and dance about changing the system from within. People have been trying to do that for over 50 years and it has not worked, in fact, things have gotten progressively worse.

Just remember that this is not new to america. Our government has been doing things we don't approve of since the beginning. It is because of the information flow we receive is so fast now we are overwhelmed by all of it.

The information flow did not create a provision in the NDAA that allows indefinite detention of Citizens with no due process of law. The information flow did not create warrantless wiretapping. The information flow did not create the databases people are now finding themselves placed in. The information flow did not create the no fly list.

And a quick reminder about our debt to china, It doesn't matter how much money we owe them, We have always just paid the interest on our debt's for many years. Just like a credit card is paid.

And this is part of the problem. If I handled my finances the way the Federal Government has handled the Federal Debt I would be living under a bridge, unable to get basic utilities in my own name, no one would rent to me or allow me to get a loan to buy a house. I wouldn't even be able to get a Sears card

And if you have issues with laws and policies, Vote, be heard, put yourself out there if it means that much to you. Takes years of hard work to make hard change.

Vote?? Are you serious?? This is the same old tired line of nonsense people have been repeating since the 60's. YOUR VOTE DOES NOT COUNT. If you have not figured that out yet, I can't help you.

You make another very interesting point which I will continue in my next post, since I have now run out of room.

Originally posted by russ1969
Oh yea, don't forget about all the federal land that is in your state. And the land that they can take at anytime. So maybe you should re-think your plan. And i also can tell you that most people do not want to secede from the union. Just a few people with radical views is all.

So let us talk about the land which the Federal Government owns.

For starters, the Federal Government was not created to be the owner of land nor was it ever intended to be so. Government was created expressly to get the "right of soil" out of the hands of a King- or in other words, out of the hands of a Federal Government. The sovereign right of a King to own, tax and control land is part of what led to the Declaration of Independence.

Now one of many issues that was resolved by the US Constitution was an question about equality between the original United States, ie; the 13 Colonies. The principle that came to be was known as the "Equal Footing Doctrine" which guaranteed that all States were equal in their sovereign power and Article 1 Section 8 specified how the Federal Government can acquire land and the purposes for which land could be acquired for. The 10th Amendment expands on this by declaring that powers not specifically granted to the Federal Government were retained by the States and the People.

The issue here is that we, as a Nation, have strayed so far from the Constitution and the principles which founded this Country, that things which should not be nor were ever intended to be seem perfectly normal. Like Federal Government land grabs.

I don't think I need to re-think anything at all. In fact I believe it is you who might need to re-think your position and perhaps do some Constitutional research. If you did, you may not find my words so "radical".

Originally posted by otherpotato
Our black president was re-elected. Twenty female senators will take office. Gay marriage is legal in 1/5 of the U.S.. Three states legalized marijuana. NH has the first ever ALL-WOMAN delegation (!). And Wisconsin elects the first openly gay senator.

The people have spoken. If the people don't speak for you, then by all means leave. It's your right.

I realize you have already been sufficiently ridiculed, but I would be doing myself a disservice by not expressing just how backward your line of thinking is. Before that I need to fact check though. Mass. did not legalize Marijuana. They legalized medical Marijuana. This means that it is still illegal for anyone without a prescription, and that people WITH a prescription will be persecuted anyway. I say this not out of assumption but from experience. I am in San Diego where our medical Marijuana system was utterly destroyed by the DEA. I have seen cancer patients with assault rifles pointed at their heads because they don't want to constantly irradiate themselves. And THIS is one of the reasons people are talking about secession.

It isn't about gays being allowed to marry. It certainly isn't about States allowing their people to decide what is ok for them to possess and ingest. It definitely isn't about gender diversity in government. It is about the federal government's ignorance of the social contract it is party to. It is about the federal government continually acting against the best interests of its' populace. So how dare you make an assumption, and voice that assumption to the esteemed members of this board, that if they disagree with the government, they must hate gay people, or marijuana, or women. How dare you, you tiny speck. Generalizations only serve to continue to pit us against each other so we do not focus on the fact that our leaders manipulate us for their own gain. Wake up.

Originally posted by otherpotato
reply to post by MrWendal

 

Please, do tell, what is the name of your independent country?

How does this question address anything I posted about?

If you want people to take your thread seriously, perhaps you should treat those who participate seriously.

reply to post by MrWendal


It was late when I posted and looking back I realize I replied to the wrong poster... Whoops! I do apologize for the confusion.... Your reasons are not the ones I was railing against, even though I may not agree with you. There are plenty of people I've encountered who DO point to what I've listed as their reasoning for supporting "secession." I'm even related to some of them...

What happens to the people who live in the state and don't want to secede? Do they have to move to a state that's still part of the republic? Or do they have a civil war or something

But, P.S., I agree...however they work it out amongst themselves, if they want to go, they should go. I agree that it's a for-better or worse kind of thing. But then again, sometimes divorce is the right thing too. What a conundrum.

reply to post by prostheticmind


Not feeling especially ridiculed but thank you for trying.

Originally posted by kozmo


Any day! Mensa qualified 7 times! If you "dropped the 1" your IQ would nary match that of a gnat. Further, I'd have to beat myself over the head with a hammer for the next 12 days to match your "Wit and intellect!"

As far as understanding the mouth-breathers... try raising your intelligence to a level slightly beyond chimp and you should be right about there with them. After all, that would be taking you "forward", no?

Had to laugh at this post..I am a genius I have qualified 7 times(Why 7 times? ) yet here I am acting like an infant and calling you down.

Yep certified genius there,, I mean I am sure there could have been a much more intelligent way to handle this response...but what do I know..I only qualified 1 time (not really never bothered to try...... so I am not a genius,,

reply to post by otherpotato


apology accepted.

Now the reasons you listed are not the only reasons that people support secession. So to imply that those are the only reasons for holding such views is naive at best. In my opinion, if anyone supports secession for any of the reason you listed in the OP, they are uninformed and should stay away from voting booths entirely, especially considering that the majority of what you listed has nothing to do with the Federal Government

Disregarding the Obama thing, all that you listed is local based. So hell yeah I would secede if it means getting more of that local freedom and not being bogged down by the Federal Gov and the F ups that States have to deal with because of the F ups the Federal Gov made.

I don't care that Obama is black or white or spanish or ex-CIA or ex-Black Panther or really a Republican in disguise. Who the fk cares? What does that have to do with the state of the country? What does an all-woman delegation or an openly gay senator have to do with the state of the USA? It has nothing to do with. All that crap is good and reassuring if your assessing that the MATURITY of the American populace is fine and dandy, but I could care less about what that stuff has to say about the Federal Government. I want no part in their dealings.

I would be glad seceding under this Government, Romney's government, Bush's government, Al Gore's government, Kerry's government, McCain's government. I want no part of this. Enough is enough

reply to post by newcovenant


I was born here, my mother is 100% Algonquin how am I not a true American?

reply to post by Indigo5


Ron Paul actually, Where do you get that assumption?

Originally posted by zonetripper2065
reply to post by newcovenant

 

I was born here, my mother is 100% Algonquin how am I not a true American?

Who said you weren't? I said the real Americans are Native Americans. Argue that if you want to. Don't assume things, make up other words and try to put them in my mouth. Fair enough?

Originally posted by muse7

Originally posted by zonetripper2065
reply to post by otherpotato

 

I don't give a hoot about any of those things. But I still want to secede. You can keep the tsa, ndaa, fbi, cia, all thats yours man enjoy. You can be an a member of the ussa I'll be the real American

edit on 11-11-2012 by zonetripper2065 because: (no reason given)

The real America huh?

Oh yeah the real America where blacks are only counted as 3/5 of a person, where they must sit on the back of the bus.

Where gays are looked down upon because it's wrong according to Jesus! Where the only purpose of Women is to cook and to raise the kids!

Where weed is punishable by up to 30 years in prison!

Oh yeah you're a real American!

wait just a moment, if all that was "bad" then why continue supporting it today as we have been ??
aside from the 3/5 thing and the word "must" ... all the rest is as it's ever been so what's your point ??

the secessioners are sick of it all and ready for a real change, aren't you ?
or, do you prefer the backward ways of today that reflect the backward days of yesteryear ??

Originally posted by ffman
They will want the federal government's help if/when a natural disaster strikes their state.

yeeah, sure, right ... that's why Lousianna, Florida, Georgia, the Carolinas and New York are on the list, right ?