God mind, our mind, universal mind

Where does the spirit end and your mind begin?

In what trappings is our self perception held to our minds eye?

We see this world from a scope and depth that we must admit is limited even by our own imaginations concept of awareness. To what extent is our ability to imagine greater sight and awareness really true? Is our imagination really a play on reality but grounded in fiction? Does imagination not lead to truth when it inspires greater insight into "seeing"?

If I imagine what God would see and in turn that thought makes me perceive the universe more completely was that not a work of truth and possibly what some call God existing in those moments within my mind to answer my "prayer" or question?

Where does.that start and end? Where and in what form is the mind held together and separate from the part of its inspiration that flows to it from beyond its learned information and known truths..

Is that part of.us.that we do not know that inspires us really a separate mechanism that enters into being when the right conditions are present? OR is it always there but our awareness of it is what is.limited to the.right.conditions so as to see it.

I would venture to say that all things in ones mind nae there inherently. That inspiration, imagination, God are all there and present. Our awareness is what changes and all the systems, religions, practices are.made to deconstruct our mind and our preconceptions so as to bridge the gap our knowing makes between our awareness and our being.

Like knowing what a mechanic does compared.to being a mechanic.

Being in the moment of life itself as it unfolds without restriction. Completely open and aware yet not alien to yourself.

Natural, easy flowing. As you are with no shame. Nude.
Immersed in "God" awareness. Limitless. Is that really a separate being you need to learn? Or do you just need to be aware of it?

Originally posted by manykapao
Where does the spirit end and your mind begin?

In what trappings is our self perception held to our minds eye?

We see this world from a scope and depth that we must admit is limited even by our own imaginations concept of awareness. To what extent is our ability to imagine greater sight and awareness really true? Is our imagination really a play on reality but grounded in fiction? Does imagination not lead to truth when it inspires greater insight into "seeing"?

If I imagine what God would see and in turn that thought makes me perceive the universe more completely was that not a work of truth and possibly what some call God existing in those moments within my mind to answer my "prayer" or question?

Where does.that start and end? Where and in what form is the mind held together and separate from the part of its inspiration that flows to it from beyond its learned information and known truths..

Is that part of.us.that we do not know that inspires us really a separate mechanism that enters into being when the right conditions are present? OR is it always there but our awareness of it is what is.limited to the.right.conditions so as to see it.

I would venture to say that all things in ones mind nae there inherently. That inspiration, imagination, God are all there and present. Our awareness is what changes and all the systems, religions, practices are.made to deconstruct our mind and our preconceptions so as to bridge the gap our knowing makes between our awareness and our being.

Like knowing what a mechanic does compared.to being a mechanic.

Being in the moment of life itself as it unfolds without restriction. Completely open and aware yet not alien to yourself.

Natural, easy flowing. As you are with no shame. Nude.
Immersed in "God" awareness. Limitless. Is that really a separate being you need to learn? Or do you just need to be aware of it?

Ultimately the spirit and soul are God's, our physical being ceases to function when God takes his spirit back, well, that's what I understand from these passages:
Ecclesiastes 12:7 For then the dust will return to the earth, and the spirit will return to God who gave it
Luke 23:46 Jesus called out with a loud voice, "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." When he had said this, he breathed his last.
Acts 7:59 While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit."
Psalm 146:4 When their spirit departs, they return to the ground; on that very day their plans come to nothing.
Ezekiel 18:4 For every living soul belongs to me, the father as well as the son--both alike belong to me. The soul who sins is the one who will die.

When you hear, "Believers" tell you that "There is none righteous, we (Christians) are all sinners." realize that you are dealing with "a wolf in sheep's clothing". And as history has shown, people who do bad things tend to justify themselves.
Luke 16:15 He said to them, "You are the ones who justify yourselves in the eyes of men, but God knows your hearts. What is highly valued among men is detestable in God's sight.
Proverbs 21:2 All a man's ways seem right to him, but the LORD weighs the heart.
Luke 18:14 "I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."

This man didn't go home justified before God by some method or tactic, he didn't believe that going around telling others that he is a sinner as if that would conveniently make him righteous before God, he went to God and told him himself. He knew in his heart that the one who sins will die. No threats, just promises.

reply to post by manykapao


1. Where does the spirit end and your mind begin?

I would ask "where does the body end and the mind begin" to try and figure your question out.
Its interesting that you wrote "the spirit" and then "your mind"; what differentiates the two might be the awareness of being an individual. What does it take to have a soul; or rather, what does it take for a soul to house a creature like the human? The human has free-will, and by necessity there is an awareness of the individual self (self-awareness)- and therefore that individual has the potential to venture "within" to be aware of the self, beyond placing the beliefs of one's self against the backdrop of other beliefs (easily done in society (because society is a group of like-minded individuals who, although having a common goal, experience, individually, ideas unique to each 1-self and together the group may strive for harmony before, or after achieving the goal)) whether they occur from contemplating the self's behavior, or from the perceiving the reaction of another person who observes that self. That soul may be seen as part of the self, which is not attached to the body or mind, only the experience of the individual. Perhaps it is the entirety of one self's experience, until that experience is refined/enlightened enough (of the unfathomable self) to simply "be"; with other souls, hypothetically, having the same opportunity, they may too reach a state of being until there is a blending of souls into One by means of that refinement whereby unity has been achieved.
A theory: one might see the surrounding unity as everything that is held together in the Universe, or the Universe itself; then again, as mere infants we might be seeing the Universe (the unity that exists) as a 2d character might see a 3 dimensional object penetrating the 2 dimensional plane.

2. In what trappings is our self perception held to our minds eye?

There is no thing that traps, or overcomes, your minds eye that you must then overcome/trap ..other than yourself; in other words, you are the only 1 that does any sort of trapping. You can't trap others, they allow themselves to be trapped based on what they believe (thinking in a way where 1 believes that there are only two types of being: slave and master, or victim and plunderer). That type of mindset may continue unabated if you feel you've conquered something, when in reality things are objective so there is no thing outside your own perception you could ever conquer. Eventually you come back to that perception, as the one that becomes conquered, until you "develop" your self enough to not need to think in the way that I've described.
It's not about removing that way of thinking; if you perceive there is something stopping you from thinking beyond, and that you need to remove that limiting force, you've already fallen into that "trapped" state of mind. You may notice how in many religions, the focus is upon some distortion similar to the "trapped" principle, if you'll accept such a makeshift term.

This is what I believe, and I've tried to make it understandable in case you want to use this kind of perspectove. If you respond then I'll try to keep up.

Just so I'm clear here, YES, we need to learn!
I understand that there are some folks who feel the need to "learn about God from nature", "flowers don't need to learn to grow they do it naturally" well peope are not flowers and neither should anyone be referred to as a "vegetable"!
Hosea 4: 6 My people perish from a lack of knowledge.

Then isn't it fitting to:
Proverbs 22:6 Direct your children onto the right path, and when they are older, they will not leave it.

I have heard the phrase, "Let kids be kids." Just what EXACTLY does that mean, examples please, and when is this phrase usually uttered anyhow?

Deuteronomy 11:19 Teach them to your children, talking about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up.

Teach them? Don't we have teachers being paid by our tax dollars to do that? Of course there's more to learn than what a school teacher can impart! Parents know this, they either choose to think that their children are "too young" to understand things and apparently there are many people who get their children started in something at an entirely inappropriate age, pedos for example, and according to what I've read, politicians and priests are getting in on that scheme, if only people would know:

Luke 8:17 For all that is secret will eventually be brought into the open, and everything that is concealed will be brought to light and made known to all.

Proverbs 26:26 His malice may be concealed by deception, but his wickedness will be exposed in the assembly.

1 John 3:7 Dear children, don't let anyone deceive you about this: When people do what is right, it shows that they are righteous, even as Christ is righteous.

Now, whom defines what is righteous? Is it the majority?
What if the majority decides that Americans aren't worthy of their residence, nor anyone else's. In that case, should the majority exterminate Americans in the name of National Security?

Jesus said that those who follow him will be hated mistreated and even killed, not a threat, it was a promise.

Matthew 10:28 "Don't be afraid of those who want to kill your body; they cannot touch your soul. Fear only God, who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Is anything impossible for God, can God destroy a person's body? You bet. The body is NOT the soul but God can destroy that too. Does this mean that God has destroyed the body of everyone who ever died? No. The bible says to Fear God, don't be afraid of those who want to kill your body, God does not want to destroy your body, "they" are not God, despite having been created by him, and we all are definitely worth preserving. No pun intended.

The fact of the matter is, Satan wants to destroy every single one of us.
Matthew 23:15 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are."
He told these folks this:
John 8:44 For you are the children of your father the devil, and you love to do the evil things he does. He was a murderer from the beginning. He has always hated the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, it is consistent with his character; for he is a liar and the father of lies.

John the Baptist called them this:
Matthew 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: "You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath?

Are you so sure you want to be expounding upon the laws of "nature"?

reply to post by Wonders



interesting perspective. Personally I find the institutional view of spirituality to be too ridged and ultra defined. It has many valid concepts, but a finite amount of room to expand on them.

I find that the purpose of religion or any system of meditation and spiritual growth is to provide tools to deconstruct our minds perception so as to drop the weights of this world and experience alternate plains of thought in different ways.

To go from thinking linearly to dimensionally for example. Time is ridged and fixed by our traditional understanding, but really it is relative to the mass of the planet we occupy which in turns creates a gravitational force, altering our perception of time´s passing. When we can see beyond this limited scope, fixed to our constants, we can see time beyond our ability to measure it, since our ability to measure it is only measuring our ability to measure, not time itself.

The same can be said of spirituality. What we think we know or can perceive is only a measurement of our ability to see, not a measurement of what we see.

Are you so sure you want to be expounding upon the laws of "nature"?

yes, absolutely, that is why I can to begin with.

reply to post by manykapao


Listen...if there is a GOD...then he needs to be FIRED! But I know the majorities concept of what GOD is cannot describe what I know from experience is a Much Larger System where the reality of what is must be Greater in Scope and stranger than imaginable.

I do not believe in any Religion. However I cannot deny things I have experienced that have opened my eyes to possibilities. I am a HUGE SKEPTIC. A few times in my life I have experienced things that no matter how much I investigated other possible causes for these events...and if anything I am VERY GOOD at breaking things down to find out cause as it is what I do...i am a Problem Solver...these events could not be explained away.

I am Spiritual but in the sense that what exists is beyond anything Man can understand or calculate. Perhaps one day when we are more evolved...but not yet. This I KNOW with 100% certainty. Humans are of the Animal Kingdom and because of conditions over time...we have evolved a Large Brain which gives us the ability to ponder great thoughts but still we are not so far removed from our Animalistic Past. Any Pet owner can tell that their Dog or Cat has feelings and thoughts which are very similar to our own...yet we do ourselves and other life forms on this Planet a wrong by believing that only we have a Spirit. We also do the World a wrong by having the EGO and Pride that makes us believe we are the center of things...we are not.

I am a Man of Science and there is no conflict in the concept of Evolution and a belief in GOD or Spirituality. I do not believe in GOD in the way most people define a GOD but rather believe that people have no idea what the reality truly is as for most they confuse the logic that a persons Spirit would have any desires or connections to the Body after Death. I have to laugh when I am told how at the Rapture people will be brought into Heaven and live in a Mansion and other obvious nonsense as they go on siting rewards by GOD that are limited by a physical body. A persons Spirit would have no concerns of the Flesh thus what people think of this is fundamentally flawed. For some it is fear of Death that drives these concepts. For others it is what they have been taught since being a child. For me...I KNOW that there is more to reality than just living and dying and the view that that would be the end. I would not have issue with this as we have no issue or fear about what and if we were something different before being born.

So if I die and that is it...I can handle. If there is something more then it is a bonus...but I do not need threats of eternal damnation to keep me in line because I want and enjoy trying to make people happy as well as help others. The thing is because of my sometimes JOB...I must do extremely distasteful things for the Greater Good. There are some VERY SICK and TWISTED PEOPLE in the World and it is my sometimes job to stop their domination of others. I KNOW what I do may sound bad but it is not as I have seen the results.

This extends to this topic in the form that I cannot sit idle while a Few attempt to gain control over an issue that is not something that they have any right at all to be involved in. Abortion although distasteful is occasionally VERY NECESSARY in the cases of Rape, Protecting the Mothers Life, Preventing the destruction of Childhood of an 11 year old pregnant kid who is living in the Bible Belt and could not either get contraception or the Morning After Pill or even tell her parents as the fear to do so causes what could be a simple taking of a pill to the Fear and Horror of aborting a Fetus in late term all because her parents scorn of this issue was so ingrained in her she could not bring up her pregnancy but now after months her life is in danger due to her age and an abortion must be done.

This is the issue in that no one wants to abort a fetus and if the proper education as well as very simple methods of preventing an abortion such as Plan B or the Morning After Pill were made available or even to be able to get contraceptive Latex would avoid the abortion in the first place. Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity



Well I for one have moved past the sense that some things are too horrible to do. I used to think in terms of idealism solely. While having an ethos to adhere to is beneficial, I feel it must be pragmatic and evolve to meet its purpose. If it is geared around a common good then it must act in light of that goal, and not become stagnant and counterproductive.

There really is no "evil" as we have come to know it. There are things we can classify as vile and horrible, that need to be addressed, but I would not say that a devil somewhere is making them happen. Evil to me is humanities civilized side acting out of intelligence for malice, trying to perform an animalistic display for himself to ponder and feel something by. Why do people murder for the sheer pleasure? Usually they seek something primal and pure, the animal they know not how to express in its purity, which is neither good or bad, but natural and geared only towards greater survival. They in turn act out of malice and with intent. That intent could be called evil, but to me that is too simplistic and too easy on the offender. It implies a sort of inability to control one's self, when in reality their actions are controlled and purposeful.

In any group, basic or complex, there are consequences for any action that threatens the survival of the group or an individual. The handicap society places on that corrective force is considerable. While there is a valid reason for over sight and moderation so as to not become a destructive force itself, in most cases I find that the "rules" are completely worthless and not designed to deal with the worst offenders, but to keep the minor offenders from crossing that threshold. When they do cross that line, I feel there should still be a corrective force that should be allowed as much limitless action as them. That "punishment" is not the issue, as reform is just silly at that point. The main concern should be to stop them by all means possible. The punishment might serve as a form of deterrence but really it is then our own animal that wants to respond in kind to their offence. (which is natural as well though it can be dangerous once your own threshold is crossed in the process)

What I find most people doing when contemplating God, is entering into fallacy. An argument, without a conclusion. God is, but how and why is not addressed. It is left to "faith"

The very concept of God is a transcendental thought we bog down with our minds smallness instead of letting that concept expand our minds to a greater understanding of it.

I have had many experiences as well that I could not write off. I would say that I absolutely believe in something more than flesh and physical limits and boundaries to everything. That there is very much MORE. I have a rich history with what many would call paranormal experiences. Not like spirits of deceased people appearing, but strange forces and a sort of intelligence to it all that I must accept is not random and chance.

That there is a design to this phenomena and it is geared to our higher thoughts.

I also believe that the soul is not just a crude concept of "spirit" in a flesh bag. No, it is a multidimensional concept. That it can exist here in this earthly realm as well as be connected to a higher source of consciousness. Like it is existing like a quantum particle, not entirely here, or where ever to the observer, but in another state of existence all together.

I don't believe in celestial palaces and like, God chilling in his little God city of nice people.

I would imagine that there are several forms of existence to the human "soul", and this reality just another.

I also see the destructive elements in creation as primordial forces of creation, the opposite side of the spectrum to existence, who counter balance the highest universal forces of creation which act out in absolute order and form. The destructive forces are not "evil" but just natural and inevitable.

The pattern comes from the high end, the force of the patterns creation comes from the low end of the spectrum of existence. We are only capable of being conscious of the in between we occupy, several levels "above" or "below" our own plane of existence.

Like yellow having no concept of red or purple. only green and blue on a rainbow.

I don't know, that is my take on it.

Oh, and if you do the work I think you do, then thank you. It is very necessary. Most people would not understand, but at least there are people like yourself that do what is necessary (acting out of truly understood concepts of greater good) so the others can have the high ideals they think they understand.

reply to post by manykapao


Thank you for your kind and understanding words. Some people do not understand. I believe you do. This places you high up in my estimation of enlightenment. Split Infinity

Originally posted by manykapao
reply to post by Wonders

 

interesting perspective. Personally I find the institutional view of spirituality to be too ridged and ultra defined. It has many valid concepts, but a finite amount of room to expand on them.

I find that the purpose of religion or any system of meditation and spiritual growth is to provide tools to deconstruct our minds perception so as to drop the weights of this world and experience alternate plains of thought in different ways.

To go from thinking linearly to dimensionally for example. Time is ridged and fixed by our traditional understanding, but really it is relative to the mass of the planet we occupy which in turns creates a gravitational force, altering our perception of time´s passing. When we can see beyond this limited scope, fixed to our constants, we can see time beyond our ability to measure it, since our ability to measure it is only measuring our ability to measure, not time itself.

The same can be said of spirituality. What we think we know or can perceive is only a measurement of our ability to see, not a measurement of what we see.

Are you so sure you want to be expounding upon the laws of "nature"?

yes, absolutely, that is why I can to begin with.

That is an interesting perspective as well. Reminds me of a time once when I went to a group therapy session a few years ago for substance abuse, a woman in her mid-thirties spoke about a time when she smoked what she thought was just an herbal although illegal substance with some friends of hers, it was laced with something, don't know what. I don't remember exactly how she started what happened next, but she started leaning back and in her mind or whatever she could see her past as though it were rewinding, she of course freaked out and started leaning forward and then said she was able to see her future, the further forward she leaned the faster the "recording" would fast-forward. I don't recall exactly how she stopped that but she and her friends were shocked about that trip. At this point I wanted to ask her if all that she saw in her "vision" up to this point has come to pass but of course there were other people there and no one seemed to have ANYTHING to say about it. She said that she saw places in her life that were rock bottoms and she likened the experience of moving forward in time to a rock skipping on water.

So, of all this talk here of yours, what of death?
Do you suppose there is ever a time where people would want to die but be unable?
Are you aware of this verse?

Revelation 9:6 During those days men will seek death, but will not find it; they will long to die, but death will elude them.

The real question for me is, why won't people bother to read the bible, God has made sure that this book would be a best seller, he intends for people to learn from it, it's available free on the web. This site is here for a reason, we are here to learn. No person with fancy talk will convince anyone otherwise, so to those who liken people to inanimate things like flowers or animals even know deep in their hearts that humans ARE DIFFERENT. We need to learn an extensive amount of information if we are to survive both literally and spiritually and emotionally.
This very site here exists because there is something that people need to know. The very fact that God is a topic here means that there are multitudes of people who need the truth! It's not spoken enough, it's not written where people can see it, because it offends. But it only offends because it is misunderstood. It is misunderstood because the laws of the universe are misunderstood. People take the word "chaos" to mean that there is no God, when really it's because there is a war going on. This war is spiritual, literal, and emotional, because believe it or not, people who are evil feel torment too. And there wil be a time for demons.
Matthew 8:29 "What do you want with us, Son of God?" they shouted. "Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?"

Ultimately there are one of two choices, seek the truth or satisfy oneself with a lie.
2 Kings 6:16-17 "Don't be afraid," the prophet answered. "Those who are with us are more than those who are with them." And Elisha prayed, "O LORD, open his eyes so he may see." Then the LORD opened the servant's eyes, and he looked and saw the hills full of horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha.

I personally strongly believe that the God of the bible is real, no one says that only certain people are allowed to petition for their eyes to be opened, to understand, because we're here to learn, we were made for it.

John 14:26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

Jesus' words are worth remembering, there is a reason.

Originally posted by manykapao

Where does the spirit end and your mind begin?

In what trappings is our self perception held to our minds eye?

First, there is no spoon so there is no you for "your mind" to begin, so there is only spirit.

As to Perception:

"Perception is the Leprechaun behind the curtain of human stoopidity." - Old Toad Proverb

As to Imagination:

"In a Closed System Universe there are about as many Truths as there are Mistruths, with both being numerous, but in an Open System Universe there is only One Truth, the rest is I-magi-nation and that One Truth is Love sourced from Logic, with God its Source." - Old Toad Proverb

Ribbit

where psychosis ends and mind begins.

reply to post by SplitInfinity


Many thanks for your post here, in a strange way, it was just the perspective that I needed to read right now.

Originally posted by ButtUglyToad

Originally posted by manykapao

Where does the spirit end and your mind begin?

In what trappings is our self perception held to our minds eye?

First, there is no spoon so there is no you for "your mind" to begin, so there is only spirit.

As to Perception:

"Perception is the Leprechaun behind the curtain of human stoopidity." - Old Toad Proverb

As to Imagination:

"In a Closed System Universe there are about as many Truths as there are Mistruths, with both being numerous, but in an Open System Universe there is only One Truth, the rest is I-magi-nation and that One Truth is Love sourced from Logic, with God its Source." - Old Toad Proverb

Ribbit

edit on 12-11-2012 by ButtUglyToad because: (no reason given)

HOLY CRAP,,, how have you been???

reply to post by KilgoreTrout


Your very welcome. Split Infinity